Why So Rude Towards New Members?

[Dishman Dan]

... many who visit are looking for a quick "fix" and will be unable or unwilling to read the FAQ's...

Sometimes it is not that easy to find the answers in the FTA "bible" on this site and it is a lot easier and usually more informative to ask a "elder" member!

It is very easy to loose your way searching all of the info archived and not remembering or finding what you wanted!!!...

 

[Conky]

being rude/judgemental/superior only pushes them back to the dark side

 

[melgarga]

I wondered when this subject matter would come up. It was only a matter of time.
I guess my position on the subject is a bit to the less popular response as indicated by posts to this point. I don't want to club anyone to death, but I'm not in favor of handling it with "kid gloves" either

IF a poster, after DULY WARNED that posting questions or admission to perpetration of illegal activities regarding sat signal reception has to fade a few comments or remarks, so be it.
I'm not saying we should implement the RTFM mentality found on USENET and other places, but anyone that shows up here and mentions association in that realm has NOT done his/her homework and is posting (read as shooting) from the hip looking for a "fix" (The fix Cad was refering to Dan AKA "hackware" etc fix")
In my travels promoting my beloved hobby I have always qualified my reference to this board with an "Absolutely under no uncertain terms make reference to sat piracy," yadi, yadi, yadi......
Folks coming here and not heeding the warnings, or reading thru the numerous posts on the subject of hacking discussions to get the "tone and demeanor" dare I say bylaw of the board get what they have coming.

Some might read this post and conclude that I wish to discourage new comers and converts. Not in the least. I love promoting this hobby, helping anyone any way I can to get the same level of enjoyment from this as I do. Helping some with a "background in the field" cuts down on the learning curve and thus the level of detail needed to convey a point or suggestion.

Outside a lil due razzing, I don't think the issue is the new comers background as much as it is the forbidden topic for discussion, especially as his/her 1st few posts.
IOW, whatever one did before or away from Satelliteguys in that subculture should be left at the virtual door.

I am very glad for the rules regarding this, and I support Scott's decision and position on the subject. It makes it a much better place for the serious legal FTA enthusiast. If a person comes in and puts a target on, expect potshots. The sure fire way to avoid it is to not make oneself a target. DUH!

Someone mentioned the prevailing response was the same for the DTV/Echo sub forums as well. I cant speak to that since I don't care to read how Chuckie et al is screwing them any more than they care to read my bitches about the PQ on G3. I can say that if it is like the USENET groups, they are way tougher on them than anything disparaging I've seen posted over on the FTA side.

It is possible and may exist for new members upon registration, that a brief "Code of Conduct" be read and agreed to before entering the site. :
It shouldn't be difficult to draft some basic guidelines on the subject.

Not that anyone actually reads that stuff either.... but still a good reference for someone that "goes there" in a simple but effective "You might want to go back and re-read the Code of Conduct for the site" type of response from the membership. That keeps the warning impersonal, and puts the notification and enforcement on the site Mods and Admin(s), where it belongs.

I understand your concern Brian, but as stated such activity/behavior and mentality must be nipped with resolute responses when it comes up, or the site will degrade. I dont think any of us that do enjoy the comfortable aire we have here want to see that happen.
It's a simple request for all members, new, charter and all in between, , "Dont talk about/blatantly discuss what you used to do" in that area, or be prepared to fade the heat.

....and yes Johnny Depp rocks! I want another sequel....:clap
......meanwhile maybe I can find the version that stars Jesse Jane........ :devil:

 

[Bouncy64]

I have been a member here for a short time, and in my postings maybe one or two might have been deemed "borderline", I will admit to scouring the"other" websites and such finding out information that I have used to "legally" recieve unencrypted satalite signals.
In any of my posts, I have not been condemned, or called "patch eye" or such, at least I don't think so. I did do alot of learning on those sites and still to this day "putter" on a few to basically help out the members.
With the demise of the N2 encryption, quite a few of them have wondered what to do next, some do choose to follow the bad ways and receive encrypted satalite through a various means or methods, by the way I really do not condone doing such.
My Idea of the fta hobby persay, is exactly what it is the reception of unencrypted sat signals, or even to help those members that do have a subscription to whom ever they choose, if they have a legit question and I figure I might be able to help, with out breaking the rules of the site, then I will do the best I can to help, or in others I will point out that speaking about illegal activity is not allowed on this website. If they choose to not listen, they have been warned.
The main Idea is to promote the hobby in the best light possible and to help those members that wish to get into the "true" fta hobby, not to put down or brand a member, that is what happens on those "other" "dark" sites way too much. That is why I find it so much a breath of fresh air to come to this site, and do more learning in that I might pass it onto other members. Isn't that what this hobby is all about members getting together to learn and to discuss in a possitive contructive manner, not to be like school children and call people names.
If that is the case then what Scott and the good staff of this site has tried to keep out, is here already, just hiding, waiting to rear it's ugly head. I come here to avoid that very thing, as I like to call it "a breath of fresh air", Scott and the staff, and the majoity of the members do their vary best to keep the riff-raff off this site, and have done a beautiful job at it. I applaud the effort each and every one of them do, but in calling anyone names, by acting like school kid bullies just goes to show these types of individuals true nature. Sorry if you don't like to hear that, but it is true.
Be helpful, point out the rules of the site, try as you can to guide the individual and if they still choose to follow the "dark ways" then and only then should they be chastized. But only if all other avenues have been exhausted.
And name calling is not right in any forum, and should not be tolerated in any way shape or form,fun is one thing, however, one would hope that by being a so called "Adult", that mature "adults" would have out grown this type of behavior. Even if it is a member that has been a member for 10 or more years, once this happens then you make this site just as bad as the rest that Scott and the staff have tried so hard to NOT be like.

 

[zamar23]

Surprisingly this topic seems to be an instant hit, despite objectively this forum is one of the most content, thought and politeness reach in NA FTA world. Apparently, nobody likes to be bullied, even slightly. Good lesson though - don't bully others!

 

[cracklincrotch]

I'd be interested in seeing the results of a poll outright asking "Have you hacked in the past?" followed by "Are you interested in receiving free, legal, unencrypted TV signals via satellite?" and/or "Do you now receive free, legal, unencrypted TV signals via satellite?"

I think the results could be interesting.

 

[Bill_KY]

I'd be interested in seeing the results of a poll outright asking "Have you hacked in the past?" followed by "Are you interested in receiving free, legal, unencrypted TV signals via satellite?" and/or "Do you now receive free, legal, unencrypted TV signals via satellite?"

I think the results could be interesting.

I would change that question to "Have you hacked satellite TV in the past".

 

[melgarga]

It doesnt matter, and such poll(s) would in fact be in violation of board policy, which is essentially -
"Whatever you've done (or do) leave it at the door, come on in and participate in the legal aspects of Free To Air Television Reception"

There are plenty of other boards (IOW other places to go) that cater to that vein of satellite discussions.

 

[Mr Tony]

It doesnt matter, and such poll(s) would in fact be in violation of board policy, which is essentially -
"Whatever you've done (or do) leave it at the door, come on in and participate in the legal aspects of Free To Air Television Reception"

There are plenty of other boards (IOW other places to go) that cater to that vein of satellite discussions.

agreed 1000%

There are other spots for that stuff. We dont condone it here and we like to talk about free to air, not stealing

Plus with a poll do you think people would be honest? I highly doubt it

 

[cracklincrotch]

agreed 1000%

There are other spots for that stuff. We dont condone it here and we like to talk about free to air, not stealing

Plus with a poll do you think people would be honest? I highly doubt it

The reason I suggest it (and it's just my personal opinion) is that it is market research. It doesn't mean it's condoned. I doesn't mean that it is going to be discussed. But one thing I've learned in business is to know your market.

If, for example, 5% of the newbies that come here are now former hackers, keep the status quo of how to deal with them. But let's say, and only for example, 30% say they're former hackers looking to go straight, you may deal with them a lot differently.

Pretending that something that didn't exist, when in fact it has, doesn't mean it didn't exist. We all know what the status of current encryption methods are with the big signal providers. So, I don't see the obvious threat of a newbie coming to this site asking "What's going on I've got no TV" and steering them in the right direction, as opposed to calling them out. We all know the what's going on when somebody asks the question.

As for what to do about it, I don't think Don't Ask, Don't tell is the answer. And besides, how is someone new to the site to know that they may get struck by a proverbial sledgehammer for asking what they think is a totally legit question. If you've got kids, think of the questions they ask when they're young. In reality, right or wrong, you're going to be asked questions that are going to make you feel uncomfortable but they're expecting an answer none the less.

The fact of the matter is new site users are here asking questions and the whole point of the site is to help them out, in the right, legal, direction. If you see a question or somebody sending you a PM asking about what size dish they need to get all the channels on 61.5 the answer is still the answer. You know the answer. You know they have to sub to get it. I'd suggest to them the answer but add that why do that when you could get free channels here, there, and over there? I didn't ask if they're eye patch and I didn't suggest they were either. I gave them the answer, didn't judge, and suggested another way to do things that they probably didn't know about. That's what experts do.

As for poll results being legit or not, I don't see much reason for people to lie. Unless you know that the poll isn't anonymous. There's nothing to gain or lose by lying. Besides, aren't most of us mature adults?

 

[melgarga]

Very noble, yet......
Tolerance is a finite resource, as is patience, compassion and a host of other redeemable qualities. Let's be clear on where (IMO) this tolerance should be applied. Many, not all, but a significant portion of the piracy so called FTAers have the technical inclination of a turnip, and have no desire to expand their horizons any further. Let's call them the Gimmies....gimmie my bin, gimmie my fix, gimmie my free (stolen) TV.

If someone's 1st round of posts consists of terms that query or even refer to I-hubs, dongles, IKS over VPN, or "back when I had Dish and Bell/ before N2 was shut down I used to...." type comments, shall we be obliged to show exceeding tolerance? I think not.

Then there are those that just jump in and post a question without even trying to search for relative posts on the subject. The concept is known by a number of terms..... study, research, homework, etc. I'll be the first to admit and condemn V-Bulletin software's search feature. In a word, it SUCKS! Use of * and ?? terms along with some basic boolean expressions would be awesome, but I've never seen it on any board. So we must use what we have. All of us are in the same boat here with this poor search engine , but to not even try to look??? Please.
Most every post on this board can be viewed without even registering.

If a person says to his buddy "Dood, before this new piss test policy shut me down, I used to burn a big fat one on the way to work every day", that would probably be no big deal, but making the same comment to or in front of his employer would probably yield consequences.

The OP posed the question "Why so rude......" when the answer is simply because the "offending poster" eluded to participating in illegal activities, which is against board policy.
I saw no instance of bashing to a bloody pulp, (in fact I'm sure Scott would not allow that behavior either) or shaming anyone into suicide. I saw no rule where that if you did, do, or are participating in forbidden topics you are not allowed here, just that you cant discuss it on this board.

The persons that come here from that camp know that what they have been involved in is not right, on any scale. If they are so obtuse as to admit via details of their indiscretions after being forewarned, then being blunt in a response is warranted.

One of my few vices I have left is swearing, very proficiently I'm told.... :rant: but I don't in front of my mother, my minister, or in the house of the Lord. They all know I do, but I respect them not to subject them to it when in their presence.

 

[turbosat]

Well said, melgarga!

 

[SpiffWilkie]

I'll be the first to admit and condemn V-Bulletin software's search feature. In a word, it SUCKS! Use of * and ?? terms along with some basic boolean expressions would be awesome, but I've never seen it on any board. So we must use what we have.

my favorite search tool:

Enter into a google search bar

whatever I'm searching for site:satelliteguys.us

for example typing "why so rude siteguys.us" yeilds These results

 

[Tron]

My thoughts on this are that it is prudent to be concerned about any discussion of past hacking activities due to Dish Network's litigious activities as of late. This site is a priceless source of information for the FTA community, and I wouldn't want to see legal action taken by Dish due to any questionable content. Sometimes, however, calling the person out in public can draw more unwanted attention to what was said. For example, in the recent thread in question, I didn't even catch the references to hacking until I read the responses and re-read the original post. For this reason, and for the sake of not rushing to judgment, I believe the best course of action when coming across a questionable thread is to flag and not respond to the thread.

 

[madmadworld]

I believe the best course of action when coming across a questionable thread is to flag and not respond to the thread.

nice Tron
great post
keep it simple

 

[stogie5150]

Very noble, yet......
Tolerance is a finite resource, as is patience, compassion and a host of other redeemable qualities. Let's be clear on where (IMO) this tolerance should be applied. Many, not all, but a significant portion of the piracy so called FTAers have the technical inclination of a turnip, and have no desire to expand their horizons any further. Let's call them the Gimmies....gimmie my bin, gimmie my fix, gimmie my free (stolen) TV.

If someone's 1st round of posts consists of terms that query or even refer to I-hubs, dongles, IKS over VPN, or "back when I had Dish and Bell/ before N2 was shut down I used to...." type comments, shall we be obliged to show exceeding tolerance? I think not.

Then there are those that just jump in and post a question without even trying to search for relative posts on the subject. The concept is known by a number of terms..... study, research, homework, etc. I'll be the first to admit and condemn V-Bulletin software's search feature. In a word, it SUCKS! Use of * and ?? terms along with some basic boolean expressions would be awesome, but I've never seen it on any board. So we must use what we have. All of us are in the same boat here with this poor search engine , but to not even try to look??? Please.
Most every post on this board can be viewed without even registering.

If a person says to his buddy "Dood, before this new piss test policy shut me down, I used to burn a big fat one on the way to work every day", that would probably be no big deal, but making the same comment to or in front of his employer would probably yield consequences.

The OP posed the question "Why so rude......" when the answer is simply because the "offending poster" eluded to participating in illegal activities, which is against board policy.
I saw no instance of bashing to a bloody pulp, (in fact I'm sure Scott would not allow that behavior either) or shaming anyone into suicide. I saw no rule where that if you did, do, or are participating in forbidden topics you are not allowed here, just that you cant discuss it on this board.

The persons that come here from that camp know that what they have been involved in is not right, on any scale. If they are so obtuse as to admit via details of their indiscretions after being forewarned, then being blunt in a response is warranted.

One of my few vices I have left is swearing, very proficiently I'm told.... :rant: but I don't in front of my mother, my minister, or in the house of the Lord. They all know I do, but I respect them not to subject them to it when in their presence.

Post of the year, right there. Give the man a Gold Star. You,Sir, have my respect and admiration. And if you're ever in the New Orleans Area, swing by Casa Stogie5150 and I'll provide the cold beverage of your choice. :up:up:up:up:up:up:up:up

 

[SatelliteAV]

WOW! This thread was started with only one single request:

"Please be more considerate and understanding towards new members and the SatelliteGuys forum will once again be known as a great, friendly community that promotes the reception of free to air programming!"

Make today a great day.... and a better day for someone around you!

 

[cracklincrotch]

Myself, I have in the past and would continue to ignore the whole "Back in the day I had IKS on this box yada yada" and answer the meat of the question so long as the answer isn't hack related or allows someone to steal signals.

I understand the litigious society we live in. This is a grey area. I can certainly understand the need for caution. No well meaning site user here wants to be drawn into something unintended.

I know a now former eye patch that is definitely interested in getting a BUD (I'm actively searching one out for them) and I've given them my T90 because of the information I've been able to provide them. They didn't know that FTA was what it is and they have seen my receivers and dishes in action. I know they'd end up banned here because they would ask questions based on what they know. They're certainly not a turnip. I know turnips. Whole fields of them. Many of them should probably be turned back over into the soil.

We're looking for more true FTA users. You have people at least asking questions about what they think is FTA. Give them real fta answers. Yes the answers are repetitive. This site has been answering repetitive questions for years now because people don't/won't/can't search or be bothered to read. But they found us here. I found here. I consider my skills pretty good since coming here and asking questions that have been asked before, I'm sure.

Keep in mind that it was a sponsor that brought this up. Sponsors want to help out, but they're also in business to make money. Anyone in business that says they're not are either an idiot or lying or both. So, if it doesn't make business (read money) sense to support a group because that group may be driving away customer(s) they may reconsider what they're doing.

Keep in mind these facts about business:

1. Bad news travels ten times as fast as good news.
2. A customer repeats a good experience to 1 of his friends.
3. A customer repeats a bad experience to 10 of his friends.
4. If one client complains to you of a problem with your business, there are 10 others that feel the same way and haven't said anything to you. See fact #3.
5. Advertising to 100 random people will result in 10 sales inquiries - one will purchase.
6. Good businesses can keep 90% of it's clients happy all the time, 5% most of the time, and 5% never, no matter what you do.
7. Clients feel their needs are of the utmost importance and tend to want things done yesterday.

I'm not suggesting that I have information about the sponsors that others don't and I don't pretend to be able to read their minds. Business people try to keep all of their customers, and those who aren't yet, happy, no matter what the business person actually thinks of them.

It's my opinion, and I think there are others that would agree, that more effort should be put into helping the newbies as well as at least make an attempt to rehab at least some of the former gang. :up

If it's the status quo after all of this I don't think this thread was a waste of time. If anything it clears the air. Discussion is helpful to everyone.

 

[Apprentice]

Myself, I have in the past and would continue to ignore the whole "Back in the day I had IKS on this box yada yada" and answer the meat of the question so long as the answer isn't hack related or allows someone to steal signals.

I understand the litigious society we live in. This is a grey area. I can certainly understand the need for caution. No well meaning site user here wants to be drawn into something unintended.

I know a now former eye patch that is definitely interested in getting a BUD (I'm actively searching one out for them) and I've given them my T90 because of the information I've been able to provide them. They didn't know that FTA was what it is and they have seen my receivers and dishes in action. I know they'd end up banned here because they would ask questions based on what they know. They're certainly not a turnip. I know turnips. Whole fields of them. Many of them should probably be turned back over into the soil.

We're looking for more true FTA users. You have people at least asking questions about what they think is FTA. Give them real fta answers. Yes the answers are repetitive. This site has been answering repetitive questions for years now because people don't/won't/can't search or be bothered to read. But they found us here. I found here. I consider my skills pretty good since coming here and asking questions that have been asked before, I'm sure.

Keep in mind that it was a sponsor that brought this up. Sponsors want to help out, but they're also in business to make money. Anyone in business that says they're not are either an idiot or lying or both. So, if it doesn't make business (read money) sense to support a group because that group may be driving away customer(s) they may reconsider what they're doing.

Keep in mind these facts about business:

1. Bad news travels ten times as fast as good news.
2. A customer repeats a good experience to 1 of his friends.
3. A customer repeats a bad experience to 10 of his friends.
4. If one client complains to you of a problem with your business, there are 10 others that feel the same way and haven't said anything to you. See fact #3.
5. Advertising to 100 random people will result in 10 sales inquiries - one will purchase.
6. Good businesses can keep 90% of it's clients happy all the time, 5% most of the time, and 5% never, no matter what you do.
7. Clients feel their needs are of the utmost importance and tend to want things done yesterday.

I'm not suggesting that I have information about the sponsors that others don't and I don't pretend to be able to read their minds. Business people try to keep all of their customers, and those who aren't yet, happy, no matter what the business person actually thinks of them.

It's my opinion, and I think there are others that would agree, that more effort should be put into helping the newbies as well as at least make an attempt to rehab at least some of the former gang. :up

If it's the status quo after all of this I don't think this thread was a waste of time. If anything it clears the air. Discussion is helpful to everyone.

Well said. I am pretty new here so have stayed out of this thread till now.

 

[AFineMan]

Afternoon all

Well I must be the exception to the rule, as a new guy who salvaged a Coolsat 5000 for $5 at a flea market I was welcomed here with open arms about 6 months ago.

I found everyone here to be very helpful and they were more than willing to point me to this rabbit hole called FTA, and BOY does it go deep. I got a Conaxsat Duo, the guy at the yard sale said it was now useless but had a DRV built in. So I scoffed it up for $20, played with that awhile, and ended up getting a DVB PCI card.

I’m just learning to work with the a DVB card and how to set up the various players (My Theater, Vision plus and many more), I loaded so many programs so poorly that I formatted my hard drive last weekend and is starting over, but it is all part of the learning.

I found those pirate sites when looking for more info on the DVB cards and how to set them up, there is a lot of info about DVB there and also a lot of wining about not getting something for nothing.

Anyways I find this site to be a GREAT resource for me, I don’t chat much and when I need a question answered, so far I have found it via search. I am sure my skill level will increases and when it does and my questions can’t be answered as easily by searching, then I’ll be chatting a little more, believing that experience then will be the same I got 6 months ago.

Well I just wanted to say “As a new guy” I was invited in, allowed to sit in the recliner and given a beer, a mighty fine welcome if you ask me.


AFM