Why Dish Commercials are loader

[sam_gordon]

I'm surprised no one has pointed out there are boxes (by various vendors, Neural, Evertz, and Harris to name a few) that will:

A) convert between 2.0 & 5.1 (a 2.0 signal is made 5.1 while a 5.1 passes or the other way around)
B) "even out" the levels.

These boxes are in place in television stations across the country. Whether it's cost prohibitive for Dish/Direct/cable to put these boxes on all their feeds is the story.

As far a "requiring" 5.1 commercials on HD, what about those stations that are still operating standard def except during network? If nothing else, when that station runs their local break inside of network HD, you'll have problems.

 

[Jim5506]

Stations do not switch from HD to SD.

If a station broadcasts 1080i, even the SD material it broadcasts is still 1080i, just with the larger SD pixels with black sidebars.

The signal is still 1080i.

 

[sam_gordon]

Stations do not switch from HD to SD.

If a station broadcasts 1080i, even the SD material it broadcasts is still 1080i, just with the larger SD pixels with black sidebars.

The signal is still 1080i.

But it might be the station's encoder that is doing the upconversion. Stations may not have ANY HD content aside from the network broadcast. So the (local) source material is still SD.

 

[primestar31]

I haven't watched a full commercial, since I got a DVR. Record everything, and then watch it. Zap through the commercials, and everything's great!

What pisses me off MORE, is those stinking BUGS, that cover 1/3 of the screen! Hallmark Movie channel is the WORST at doing that! More and more stations are doing it, and I think it's about time they stop, or we all stop watching until it hits them in the pocket-book.

 

[Straybeat]

Have you notice some commercials are much loader than others and the channel program? I don't believe those load commercials are from the channel program. They're injected by Dish. I'm wondering if this is intentionally done. I'm getting very annoyed over this. I'm wondering if other such Direct, Uverse, or Cable do similar thing.

Originally, around 35 years ago (mid-70's) some marketing idiot realized that when commercials came on people would run for a snack in the kitchen and miss the commercial. The powers that be at the time decided they would crank the commercials louder so that they could be heard in the kitchen.

 

[bookworm370]

Originally, around 35 years ago (mid-70's) some marketing idiot realized that when commercials came on people would run for a snack in the kitchen and miss the commercial. The powers that be at the time decided they would crank the commercials louder so that they could be heard in the kitchen.

Finally, someone that got it right!

That's exactly why they are louder! Good on ya Straybeat!
I was sitting back reading this thread and looking at all the technical BS being bantered around knowing why commercials are louder. It's amazing how geeks can over complicate things. The real fact is that commercials are recorded and aired at a higher modulated level to attract the attention of the viewer!

 

[bookworm370]

From MSNBC:

The Federal Communications Commission does not specifically regulate the volume of TV programs or TV commercials. However, broadcasters are required to have equipment that limits the peak power they can use to send out their audio and video signals. That means the loudest TV commercial will never be any louder than the loudest part of any TV program.

A TV program has a mix of audio levels. There are loud parts and soft parts. Nuance is used to build the dramatic effect.

Most advertisersdon’t want nuance. They want to grab your attention. To do that, the audio track is electronically processed to make every part of it as loud as possible within legal limits. “Nothing is allowed to be subtle,” says Brian Dooley, Editor-At-Large for CNET.com. “Everything is loud – the voices, the music and the sound effects.”

Spencer Critchley, writing in Digital Audio last month, explained it this way: “The peak levels of commercials are no higher than the peak levels of program content. But the average level is way, way higher, and that’s the level your ears care about. If someone sets off a camera flash every now and then it’s one thing; if they aim a steady spot light into your eyes it’s another, even if the peak brightness is no higher.”

There’s also what Brian Dooley of CNET.com calls “perceived loudness.” If you’re watching a drama with soft music and quiet dialogue and the station slams into a commercial for the July 4th Blow Out Sale, it’s going to be jarring. If you happen to go from the program into a commercial for a sleeping pill, one with a subtle soundtrack, it probably won’t bother you.

 

[bookworm370]

Other citations:

Think TV commercials are louder than the shows? Listen up, they're not. | Lifestyles Archive Site - cleveland.com

Conclusions Drawn: Why Are TV Ads Louder Than The Shows?

Why are TV Commercials So Loud? The Commercials Always Seem Louder than the Show | Suite101.com

Sorry to bust all the HD geeks bubbles but that's the truth. Oh and BTW, if anyone bothered to even do a one line google search on 'Why are commercials louder than shows' you would have got the real answer and have had to make stuff up!

 

[SandFarmer]

ATSC Ready To Solve Loudness Woes

 

[Mark0]

Don,

thanks for your input and as a 35 year veteran of the broadcast engineering community I agree with everything you said. But I would add that although "loud is annoying", "annoying is also LOUD". The very definition of "NOISE" is any sound you "DON'T WANT TO HEAR". So even if you get the commercial right it will almost always have more (not louder) sound than the dramatic program you are inserting into and will be annoying because it is unwanted. I was never able to make viewers happy on this subject because commercials will always “sound” louder even when they are actually at a lower volume.

Leon

Leon,

You need to get your hearing checked. 99.9% of the people here hear a difference... and I'm talking night/day difference.

 

[CowboyDren]

Mark, Leon's right.

It's a combination of technology, technique, and psychology at play. If you run a TV show and a commercial through the same VU meter, the needle only comes up to the same mark, but that doesn't tell you anything useful. Think about the difference between being on a busy downtown street corner vs. being next to a single loud car at a stoplight; same dB level, totally different experiences. Then you throw in the hands-in-the-air shrug that ad producers give when they whine about Stereo sound not having the "dynamic range" that the big money studio guys have, and it turns into a real cluster. Compare Dish's commercials for the anti-snore product to their commercials for Bose; same dB level, same technologies, different feel (because of the noise inherent in the mix).

Commercials are, and always will be, annoying. When a consortium (like ATSC) comes to a resolution, some ad guys are going to comply, and some are going to continue to kick the fences. If Congress gets involved later, more ad people will comply with the law, but some will just pay the fines for the sake of a competitive advantage. Even if you're able to make them all shut the hell up, they'll still be annoying, because it's unwanted to start with.

 

[whatchel1]

Psycho-acoutics

The science behind this is know as psycho-acoustics. Commercials peak levels are no higher than the peaks in the TV shows. There's the rub commercials start at peak level and only drop about 10% whereas the shows have a large dynamic range. That means the show's volume goes from loud to soft. So it is perceived loudness of the commercials because the volume almost never drops below the peak. The first article that bookworm370 referenced talks about it.