Where to connect satellite RG-6 to UPS surge protector

[Broe67]

The thing about CATV service is that plant is grounded through out the system. The reason for grounding at the static block for CATV is to keep the difference of potential at the house and the connection to the plant, within the same parameters.

As for Satellite. I have seen a lot of dishes out in the country take direct hits, and everything downstream was fried. Even with the dish & pole grounded & static block grounded to the electrical ground.

I would rather let a sacrificial protection take the charge, then $10k of gear interconnected to the Satellite system. I understand what DirecTV's stance is on this. They like the CATV companies are going by the minimum requirements of the NEC, CEC & Canadian Electrical Code. Those of us that care about what we have inside, connected to the equipment will take it up a step and use proper equipment for protecting our investment.

 

[lnbchris]

Huh...someone needs to come up with a wireless (air gap) system, one part outdoors by the grounding block, and one part indoors - electrically isolated from it at a distance and connected to the actual electronics.

My house hasn't been hit yet though, could be that we are surrounded by many tall old trees. So is it safe to assume things will continue this way, or will the new dish attract lightning?

In any case, if I am interpreting that IEEE document correctly, the real reason I shouldn't use "multiport" (AC + RG6) surge protectors around the house is because the pair that becomes balanced will throw all the other pairs in other rooms off balance (other unprotected AC + RG6 pairs, like Genie Clients in bedrooms for instance). So any Directv power injector reasons notwithstanding, that is why you would only want to use surge protectors at the grounding block, or as close to it as possible. Interesting.

 

[Broe67]

lnbchris, that is what the Gas Discharge protection does. It is a Neon tube with a spark gap. Same as used with every type of radio & tv transmission/receiving equipment, since the day the radio was made.

That is correct on the IEEE document information. I do not connect any communication or networking equipment into the surge protectors around the house. The lines for my UVerse & DirecTV are grounded and protected where they enter the house. No need for downstream protection. That is where you end up with high signal loss and/or Ground Loops.

The manufacturers of the Surge strip products are required to add the telephone & coax protection, due to some lawyer stated that they had to. Because people would blame manufacturers or providers of damage to their home electronics.

As for all of the trees. If there is any wire tangled in their roots that goes back into the structure. Lightning when it hits those trees, will follow any path that it can find. In turn you may either just have it go directly to Earth Ground, or it may end up wrecking havoc on the home, if the Power Company drop Neutral is in any way corroded or poorly attached in the panel or meter housing.

 

[Hutch1814]

The problem using surge protectors and such is the don't always allow proper voltage or frequencies to travel through them that directv requires. In the end the standard is no protection except a grounded system. Bonded at the dish with a green ground wire to home electrical.

Going by what is stated for us techs to follow, the answer is simple. Don't connect it. If it's connected and a tech comes out and sees it, we're by passing it and you're gonna end up with a service call charge for customer caused if that was the actual cause.


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[twizt3dsist3r]

The problem using surge protectors and such is the don't always allow proper voltage or frequencies to travel through them that directv requires. In the end the standard is no protection except a grounded system. Bonded at the dish with a green ground wire to home electrical.

Going by what is stated for us techs to follow, the answer is simple. Don't connect it. If it's connected and a tech comes out and sees it, we're by passing it and you're gonna end up with a service call charge for customer caused if that was the actual cause.


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Well said.

 

[lnbchris]

lnbchris, that is what the Gas Discharge protection does. It is a Neon tube with a spark gap. Same as used with every type of radio & tv transmission/receiving equipment, since the day the radio was made.

I was thinking of a wireless transceiver pair, whereas I think you were talking about a surge protector. Still sounds interesting.

As for all of the trees. If there is any wire tangled in their roots that goes back into the structure. Lightning when it hits those trees, will follow any path that it can find. In turn you may either just have it go directly to Earth Ground, or it may end up wrecking havoc on the home, if the Power Company drop Neutral is in any way corroded or poorly attached in the panel or meter housing.

All our electrical utilities are up on poles, fortunately. I knew someone with buried power who's house caught on fire due to a tree that was hit. Scary stuff.

 

[Broe67]

All our electrical utilities are up on poles, fortunately. I knew someone with buried power who's house caught on fire due to a tree that was hit. Scary stuff.

That would be because the Neutral was most likely already corroded enough, that it would not have mattered if Lightning struck the home or not.

 

[Broe67]

I was thinking of a wireless transceiver pair, whereas I think you were talking about a surge protector. Still sounds interesting.

Why on the wireless transceiver. You would have too many customers calling in about problems. Also how would you power the unit, say if the dish was 100-200' away.

 

[lnbchris]

Why on the wireless transceiver. You would have too many customers calling in about problems. Also how would you power the unit, say if the dish was 100-200' away.

Just brainstorming. It could be an option but not a requirement. The wire from the dish would come into the house as usual. The usage of this wouldn't be for long-distance wireless connectivity, but rather for short-distance connectivity, and in particular, coax line "air-gap surge protection". Think along the lines of wireless bluetooth, except much higher bandwidth. The Power Injector would be on the satellite dish side, or sender, to power the dish. Then the receiver would be on the other side, maybe only a few feet away, but the coax would be physically disconnected in-between. In addition the receiver's AC could be on a surge protector of its own.

 

[Broe67]

lnbchris, the "Air-gap" again, is what a Gas Discharge protector is. It attaches between the coax from the Satellite or CATV line at the static block. Then when you have a high voltage surge (ie Lightning strike, dish becomes energized from a fallen power line). The Gas Discharge protector blows and shunts the voltage directly to the ground wire. It cannot enter into the structure on the Coax that continues.

I can keep repeating the same thing over until I am blue in the face. But it is what it is, how a Gas Discharge Lightning/Surge protector works for communications.

This explains what how a Gas Discharge Tube works. http://www.globalspec.com/learnmore...it_protection_devices/gas_discharge_tubes_gdt

 

[lnbchris]

I meant to ask you more about that. This vaguely reminds me of the mercury vapor rectifier, used in power supplies of early vacuum tube equipment to stabilize a DC voltage. The "83 rectifier" worked so well that they continued to use them for many years afterwards in testing equipment to ensure an accurate reference voltage. In some places they continue to this day to use gigantic mercury vapor rectifiers to stabilize the DC power supply to subway trains. So I have no doubt in my mind that something like this would do exactly what it says it is supposed to do. Just haven't seen something like this in a while.

 

[Broe67]

I meant to ask you more about that. This vaguely reminds me of the mercury vapor rectifier, used in power supplies of early vacuum tube equipment to stabilize a DC voltage. The "83 rectifier" worked so well that they continued to use them for many years afterwards in testing equipment to ensure an accurate reference voltage. In some places they continue to this day to use gigantic mercury vapor rectifiers to stabilize the DC power supply to subway trains. So I have no doubt in my mind that something like this would do exactly what it says it is supposed to do. Just haven't seen something like this in a while.

Mercury-Arc Valves were used for a different type of application. Not for the same application as a GDT is used for. Even though a Mercury-Arc Valve is a type of Cold Cathode GDT.

 

[lnbchris]

Yup. After that it all made sense. It helped to relate it to something I already understood. So that Parts Express link, there is no mention of the word "gas". That is what got me. However this listing for a supposedly identical item on Amazon says so.

It has some negative reviews on Amazon, but I'll bet they didn't install it correctly. I will probably just try one of these out. Looks like I should just be able to screw it on to the inlet of the grounding block.

Edit: well apparently I cannot post links here yet, I am not going to try. But you get the idea.

 

[Broe67]

That is because there is an inert gas inside the module. Thus the name "Gas Discharge Tube". As for negative reviews on Amazon. Ignore them. It is people that do not understand how the technology works. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surge_protector#Gas_discharge_tube_.28GDT.29