What's the latest on 811 fixes?
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snathanb said:
I thought about saying something similar, but figured someone would eventually.
Joe
Nicu said:
One person crap is another person's gold. They are selling for more that $149 on the web so if you are that upset, sell it. Sorry for being so blunt, but you do have options. I was waiting for the class action suite to come up.. Hmm only took a day after the end of April. THis is software and with software all schedules are guesses at best. Some companies just guess better and Dish is horriable at it.
As for your take on if a class action suite can be one, I am assuming you are a class action lawyer?? As for the 811 being a piece of crap, that again is subject to opinion and experience. I for one, don't feel it fits the crap catagory or it would not be in my HT. Yes it has its warts and some are pretty big, but crap.. nah!! I would not say that.
Dominic said:
WOW new record on call for Class action suite!!!
If you are trumpeting the masses to a war, you might want to have your facts straight. The McDonalds hot coffee lawsuit was overturned... Yes there is justice.. and if you are liking an 811 class action lawsuit to the moron that tried to sue McDonalds for spilling coffee, you can count me out.
The dark svideo was known from day one. Yes it is wrong, yes it sucks, but with a little homework one should have known this piece of info going in... We all want it fixed, but class action lawsuit is at this point is a waste of the courts time. Just as the coffee spill was. What moron puts hot coffee between his legs when wearing shorts and driving.
WeeJavaDude said:
If you really care to learn about the McDonalds "coffee" lawsuit, here you go:
McDonalds lawsuit
McDonalds deliberately served super hot coffee to save money, and knew it would cause bodily injury. The victim received third degree burns over 6% of her body, was in hospital for 8 days, had skin grafts and is permanently scarred. Those are the straight facts.
Let's see if I have this straight about the 811. All buyers should have known that the s-video output is defective, so they are the fools for buying the 811? It's true that nobody is going to need skin grafts after buying the 811, and I won't be part of any class action lawyer enrichment program, but to say that ALL 811 buyers are or should be aware of ALL product defects, is ludicrous to say the least. The original 811 deals were offered to all new customers, the vast majority of which do not sit behind a computer screen looking for Dish forums. How exactly were these customers supposed to know about the 811 defects? Did Dish disclose them? NO.
When you buy an 811, it should be functional to meet the intended purpose. A High Definition receiver with mediocre quality images does not meet the minimum standards for the product category. If the published specifications say that the product has a 48 hour program guide, the product should have a 48 hour program guide (a "feature" that was originally only 2 hours and is now only partially fixed. Don't watch OTA for a while and then go to the guide).
I have been waiting for Dish to fix these "obvious" defects. But for the majority of buyers the defects are obvious only AFTER they purchase the 811. Had my 811 since December, and did NOT expect garbage dark images from a new HD receiver. Guess I am too stupid to have known better.
Keith.
keith - As usual concerning the 811, you are 100% correct. Why do people continually defend Dish (or any company for that matter) for producing and selling defective products, as well deception regarding their products and services? It makes no sense.
Did you read the following article? http://asktog.com/columns/059QualityAssurance.html
It is so right on, and a breath of fresh air from someone in the sw/hw development arena, where most of Dish's defenders are usually from. It almost seems like the geeks like to struggle with the gear. And, since they offten release buggy products before they are ready for release, it only seems natural to them.
As an aside, I could never figure out why McD's served their coffee so hot. How does it save money? They use more energy. They must pay for lawsuits. It didn't mask the terrible taste of their crappy coffee. It made no sense.
Did you read the following article? http://asktog.com/columns/059QualityAssurance.html
It is so right on, and a breath of fresh air from someone in the sw/hw development arena, where most of Dish's defenders are usually from. It almost seems like the geeks like to struggle with the gear. And, since they offten release buggy products before they are ready for release, it only seems natural to them.
As an aside, I could never figure out why McD's served their coffee so hot. How does it save money? They use more energy. They must pay for lawsuits. It didn't mask the terrible taste of their crappy coffee. It made no sense.
juan said:HOW IS SERVEING SUPER HOT COFFEE GONNA SAVE MCDONALDS MONEY?
You guys are too lazy to follow the provided link or what?
"Evidence showed that McDonalds served their coffee so hot to save money. This let them get away with a cheaper grade of coffee and cut down on the number of free refills they had to give away. McDonalds executives testified that they thought it would be cheaper to pay claims and worker's compensation benefits to people burned by their coffee versus making any of these changes."
Keith.
GaryPen said:
That article pretty much sums up the 811 too
Dish are adding Dish Home Channel in P266. That's fine - if and only if the major bugs from P263/4/5 are fixed. If Dish are expending significant effort to add new features, but fail to fix known serious bugs, they need to hire someone that understands QA.
I can believe that the 811 was rushed to market over objections from engineering, but the slow development pace after release is harder to understand. Dish should build a suite of regression tests and every new release has to pass the test suite with no failures, and of course, fix all or a subset of the known bugs. New bug reports will demand the addition of new tests to the regression suite, so as to test for the bug and verify if it is fixed.
This is normal and time proven industry practice, not rocket science. Document the bugs, estimate the difficulty of fixing the bugs, prioritize the bug list, and set a schedule and bug fix list for the next software release. Dish should also consider publishing a list of fixed bugs when they release new software, and some vendors will also publish the list of known but not fixed bugs, and when they are scheduled to be fixed (and tell us if they don't plan to fix a bug).
I can't imagine Dish are following this kind of systematic process, based on the quality of their software releases and lack of information on what the release contains.
Keith.
keith said:
Go get 'em Keith. I just got two 811s yesterday -- problems immediately with both the User Guide and Themes (updating - scrolling - never leaving the screen). Dish told me last night and again today that software would be downloaded to me "within the week". Hmmmmm. MoTygr
keith said:
Interesting Link on McDonalds. I was going by memory and thought about checking it. My understanding was it was eventually overturned. But maybe it was reduced. I will have to take a closer look.
As for the fools comment, I don't recall stating that at all. Just that if one would have done a little homework they would have seen this as a potention problem and could have weighed it in their decision. We are in agreement as to the fact that there are issues that need addressing, but I guess were we differ is that you expect full disclosure from Dish. Yes it would be nice, but from what I have seen companies don't do this as a matter of business. I had a digitial camera with a known defect in the field and it was not disclosed for 2 years after the product was released.
We would all like to know what bugs are there, timelines, and such but that is just not common in this industry. Is DirecTV doing this? Cable doing this? I would like to see more info provided, but I just dont see it happening.
As for PQ, it is highly subjected and from all the posts widely different to the individual 811 users. This does not make people idiots because they think the 811 has good PQ or you and idiot because you feel your PQ is horriable. Just a few data points and as every PQ argument on here goes... With all the different combinations of Hardware it is hard to make an exact PQ statement. I can only say my PQ on my 811 is acceptable and in some cases amazing in others (Dark content) could be improved. This is drastically different than yours.
I will refrain from comments related to Dish followers vs. the people that know better. That goes no where fast (This is in regards to another comment made not yours).
Cheers,
Ron
WeeJavaDude said:
How many new subscribers going into the Radio Shack in the mall to sign up for Dish are aware of specific receiver bugs because they have browsed this and similar forums? I doubt it's more than a fraction of one percent. Dish has, what, 9,000,000 subscribers? How many users are registered at this forum? We are a very thin slice of the consumer pie and it is incredibly arrogant to assume that users need to research Dish product bugs before they buy them. This is totally backwards.
When buying a product that is sold with a feature set, the consumer has expectations that the product is not fraudulent. This has NOTHING to do with doing homework. Either the product meets the published specification or it doesn't. We are not talking about minutae here. Ridiculously dark images and losing the guide when switching from extended OTA back to Dish (often needing a reset to fix the guide - just reset my 811 about 1 hour ago for this exact bug) are serious bugs, plus many more.
I can just imagine my mother with the 811. Watches local news on OTA for a couple of hours, then switches to Lifetime to watch The Nanny and the picture goes black. Turning the 811 on and off does nothing, still black picture. Doesn't know how to reset the 811, and wouldn't accept having to reset the box every day anyway. The huge majority of folks that have flashing 12:00am on their VCR's will be totally screwed with the 811. NO more excuses for serious Dish product bugs, please. Put the heat on Dish and demand they fix their products. Stop blaming consumers for buying products that they expect to work as advertised.
Keith.
Just that if one would have done a little homework they would have seen this as a potention problem and could have weighed it in their decision.
Does this guy work for Dish by any chance?
Does this guy work for Dish by any chance?
OK, so aside from the verbal wars on this thread, there has not been a definitive date set for 2.66 update, nor that it will contain the dark picture fix. That's near as I can tell after dredging through the seven pages. Has there been any further statements from Dish concerning a "bad chip" in the 811, or has that been cleared up?
Also, since this receiver is using the newer chipset than the 6000, it would be expected that the PQ and features would be faster, but this is not the case. Has there been any discussion or comments from the Dish tech dept concerning the chipset features above the chipset in the 6000?
Thanks!
Also, since this receiver is using the newer chipset than the 6000, it would be expected that the PQ and features would be faster, but this is not the case. Has there been any discussion or comments from the Dish tech dept concerning the chipset features above the chipset in the 6000?
Thanks!
"Just that if one would have done a little homework they would have seen this as a potention problem and could have weighed it in their decision."
By any chance does this guy work for Dish?
"Is DirecTV doing this? "
DirecTV seems to be a more open system. That means your not locked into using their box. There are at least three or four manufactures that make HD receivers that work with the DirecTV system: Mitsubishi, Sony, Toshiba, RCA, Philips and other that are one of these re-badged. ie. Samsung is really Sony, Mits is really Hughes.
In fact DirecTV held up the release of a new Toshiba box because it didn't function properly.
The point here is WE don't have a choice on receivers. It's the Dish 811 or 6000 or nothing and they are counting on that.
I guess the real choice is DirecTV or Dish? I'll be making that choice real soon.
I guess the Class action suit idea was to strong for some people. But, that OK, I knew it would go any where. BUT, it got your attention didn't it.
That's what we need to do. Get the attention of Dish management. The only way to do that is hit then in the pocket.
Remember there is strength in numbers.
If dish was flooded with several thousand requests for HD package subscriptions cancellations. Maybe they'd wake up.
Sometimes you have to get out of your comfort zone to accomplish anything.
It was staying our comfort zone, not wanting to offend any one and not pushing back a little, that changed the NYC skyline forever. GET INVOLVED.
By any chance does this guy work for Dish?
"Is DirecTV doing this? "
DirecTV seems to be a more open system. That means your not locked into using their box. There are at least three or four manufactures that make HD receivers that work with the DirecTV system: Mitsubishi, Sony, Toshiba, RCA, Philips and other that are one of these re-badged. ie. Samsung is really Sony, Mits is really Hughes.
In fact DirecTV held up the release of a new Toshiba box because it didn't function properly.
The point here is WE don't have a choice on receivers. It's the Dish 811 or 6000 or nothing and they are counting on that.
I guess the real choice is DirecTV or Dish? I'll be making that choice real soon.
I guess the Class action suit idea was to strong for some people. But, that OK, I knew it would go any where. BUT, it got your attention didn't it.
That's what we need to do. Get the attention of Dish management. The only way to do that is hit then in the pocket.
Remember there is strength in numbers.
If dish was flooded with several thousand requests for HD package subscriptions cancellations. Maybe they'd wake up.
Sometimes you have to get out of your comfort zone to accomplish anything.
It was staying our comfort zone, not wanting to offend any one and not pushing back a little, that changed the NYC skyline forever. GET INVOLVED.
You are partially correct. LG makes the current Hughes, Sony, and LG branded DirecTV HD receivers. The current SD Tivo box, branded Hughes, RCA, Philips, and possibly others, are all made by one company, as well. (I'm not sure which.)Dominic said:
In any case, there are mutliple manufacturers/developers for DirecTV gear, all of which are familiar with designing and manufacturing consumer electronics. Until Dish/Echostar uses this model, they will continue to offer bug infested, partially enabled equipment, some of which never reach full operability before being discontinued.
Dish needs to get out of the equipment business, and concentrate on providing service.
keith said:
I am talking from the perspective of someone buying a consumer product. Personally I look into it before I purchase it. I know I am not the norm. This is something engineers usually do. Also, the problems that we tend to run into usually the average consumer does not run into. Like you said we are a very thin slice. I think you might be reading me wrong. Personally on purchases like this "I" do some minimal research. I am not talking about what the general public should do. I am also sure that the thin slice of people on this board tend to do the same.
keith said:
keith said:
Our grandmother (70 yrs old) watches the 811 all the time when the wife and I are not home. I am not blamming consumers.... Just saying that being an educated consumer can be a good thing. Can help avoid buying a product that does not live up to expectations. Dish is not alone in this camp by any means.
Since this is heating up.. time to bail and I am also anxiously awaiting an update. Either my threshold is customer higher than yours or I am running into less issues or a combination. Either way.. This is loosing it productivity and value.
WeeJavaDude said:
I too fail to understand why a discussion has to degenerate into an argument. The simple point is, as consumers, we make choices. We can complain, or not. We can switch, or not. We can be patient, or not.
I've made my choices and I too will not argue about something like coffee or whether or not something should work 100% of the time out of the box. I have a limited amount of time to spend reading here and won't spend it arguing either.
Constructive, interesting discussion is much more useful than arguing (one man's opinion).
Joe
long_time_DNC said:
Good advice Joe. I sometimes find myself slide down that path and have to catch myself. The last time this happened was when the 6000 introduced a IR bug that caused Tivos not to work with the unit. Boy did that cause a major revolt.
. It really surprised me because the 6000 was an HD box but a lot of people used it as a regular tuner also and this bug was like a life stopper and people went belistic. Even with this outrage it took dish 3 weeks to fix. Software fixes with embedded software with this type of distribution model cannot be done in days. As you said.. One person's opinion.
