They are all athletes, but their athletic event is not a sport. As I stated earlier, not all athletic events are a sport.
What makes someone an athlete?
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have you ever shaken hands with a nascar driver? i thought that too until i had the chance to meet a couple of them. they nearly broke my hand with thier grips. each one had musclar adn cut arms. it take s a lot to keep a 3400lb car on the road going 150 miles or more an hour around a curve. go try it out.
IMO a sport must have 3 criteria:Define sports... fishing is a sport and anyone can do it...
- It must be a competitive
- It must be a game (a game must have a point system and a defense for my criteria of a sport)
- It must be athletic
Poker fore example is both competitive and a game, but it is not athletic
Things like skiing, gymnastics, and running (I am an avid expert skier BTW) are athletic and can be competitive, but it is not a game (as there no defense)
Fishing is not a sport because it is not athletic and most of the time it is not a game. I know they do have competitive fishing, but it is still not athletic.
I can see the argument for golf going both ways. I do play golf, just as I ski, but although golf is less athletic than skiing it is more of a sport than skiing, IMO. Golf is someone athletic, it is a game, there is scoring, but it does lack defense.
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A game does not always have defense. Bowling is a game and it does not have defense.
Let me clarify. I did not mean to imply that all games have a defense. What I meant was for a game to be placed in what I define as a sport, that particular game must have a defense.
Contest between athletes.depends... define athletic...
To define an athlete is what the topic of this thread is about.
IMO, an athlete is any individual trained or able to contend in an exercise which requires physical strength or physical agility/skills. The debate is over how much athletic skill, agility, or strength is required, which is why NASCAR and golf are being debated here. Everyone agrees both do require special physical skills, but it is enough to fit within ones own definition of an athlete? It is subjective IMO.
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NASCAR has a point system, Requires athletic activity (try driving these cars at speed-also the pit crew has serious work on their hands--ever swung 4 NASCAR Tires around in 10 seconds?) and it is most definitely competitive. So by your criteria, NASCAR is a sport!
By this definition, Dart hurlers are athletes since they compete in a game with a point system. And this sport by your definition also has offensive and defensive strategies!
Care to try again?
By this definition, Dart hurlers are athletes since they compete in a game with a point system. And this sport by your definition also has offensive and defensive strategies!
Care to try again?
Try quoting my entire post and there will be no need for me to try again.NASCAR has a point system, Requires athletic activity (try driving these cars at speed-also the pit crew has serious work on their hands--ever swung 4 NASCAR Tires around in 10 seconds?) and it is most definitely competitive. So by your criteria, NASCAR is a sport!
By this definition, Dart hurlers are athletes since they compete in a game with a point system. And this sport by your definition also has offensive and defensive strategies!
Care to try again?
Try quoting my entire post and there will be no need for me to try again.
Okay
===an athlete is any individual trained or able to contend in an exercise which requires physical strength or physical agility/skills. ===
English 101... the word OR does not mean AND. One OR the other. If you meant AND then you should rewrite your definition. The / is recognized by most to also mean OR, not AND.
So taking the options YOU layed out - physical strength OR Physical Agility OR Physical Skill, I chose skill.
Now, if you meant "an athlete is any individual trained or able to contend in an exercise which requires physical strength AND physical agility AND skills. "
Then we can start by trying to define what you mean by "strength". Strength to swing a bat? Strength to swing a club? Strength to thow a javelin? Strength to throw a dart? Strenght to move your legs?
Then we can nit-pick "agility". How agile is a runner running a race in a straight line? (which BTW would not fit your term for athlete since there is no point system for track & field, just times and distances. You came in first or you didn't. Just like many motor sports. There is also no defense in most track & field events)
They are fast but are they "quick"(agile) if they run a 100 yard dash but can't run the hurdles does that mean they are not agile?
And for skill, you have to more tightly define that too. Dart throwers are most definitely skilled! Have you ever tried to hit three trip 20s 4 throws in a row?
BTW I do not consider dart hurlers "athlete". But by your definition, the way its written and even the way it isn't and you may have meant, then they are.
BTW: Marion Webster's Definition:
: a person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports, or games requiring physical strength, agility, or stamina
---for those that need to have this sentence deconstructed:
: a person who is ____(a)____ in __(b)___ requiring ___(c)_____ .
(a) PICK ONE OF THE FOLLOWING) Trained ---- Skilled
(b) PICK ONE OF THE FOLLOWING) exercises --- sports --- games
(c) PICK ONE OF THE FOLLOWING) physical strength --- agility --- stamina
BTW in some previous definitions, gymnasts are not athletes since they are not playing a game.
: a person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports, or games requiring physical strength, agility, or stamina
---for those that need to have this sentence deconstructed:
: a person who is ____(a)____ in __(b)___ requiring ___(c)_____ .
(a) PICK ONE OF THE FOLLOWING) Trained ---- Skilled
(b) PICK ONE OF THE FOLLOWING) exercises --- sports --- games
(c) PICK ONE OF THE FOLLOWING) physical strength --- agility --- stamina
BTW in some previous definitions, gymnasts are not athletes since they are not playing a game.
Understanding 101. Nowhere did I imply or say the word OR meant the word AND. I said OR because I meant OR.
The reason why I used OR instead of AND (it was asked how I would define an athlete) is because not all athletics involve strength and not all require agility.
If this is a reference to my post, perhaps you should read it again (Hint: lets not confuse athletics with sports. I made a clear distinction in my prior posts). A syllogism this does not make.
Are we arguing in circles?
You posted:
IMO, an athlete is any individual trained or able to contend in an exercise which requires physical strength or physical agility/skills.
Then I posted one of the options you provided:
IMO, an athlete is any individual trained or able to contend in an exercise which requires physical strength or physical agility/skills.
followed by my response:
By this definition, Dart hurlers are athletes since they compete in a game with a point system. And this sport by your definition also has offensive and defensive strategies!
Care to try again?
You then accused me of editing out your comment. After I explained how YOUR definition allows the reader to choose from the otions given, you tell me that is correct you MEANT there to be options.
So what did I misquote or leave out in your definition of "athlete" that prohibits the inclusion of dart hurlers?
You posted:
IMO, an athlete is any individual trained or able to contend in an exercise which requires physical strength or physical agility/skills.
Then I posted one of the options you provided:
IMO, an athlete is any individual trained or able to contend in an exercise which requires physical strength or physical agility/skills.
followed by my response:
By this definition, Dart hurlers are athletes since they compete in a game with a point system. And this sport by your definition also has offensive and defensive strategies!
Care to try again?
You then accused me of editing out your comment. After I explained how YOUR definition allows the reader to choose from the otions given, you tell me that is correct you MEANT there to be options.
So what did I misquote or leave out in your definition of "athlete" that prohibits the inclusion of dart hurlers?
I just think you are confusing a couple of things.
First, I made a distinction between athletics and sports. The game criteria I set forth was placed within my definition of a sport, not my definition of athletics
Second, I stated OR because I meant OR (reasons already given)
I didn't accuse you of editing my posts. I was simply hinting that the answer to your confusion was in the part of the quote you left off.
As far as you dart comment, like bowling and other things, like I stated in a previous post, ones definition is subjective, which is the main topic of this thread after all. Even using the dictionary definition, one can include darts and poker. It comes down to the level to which these skills and strengths are set in order to fit within ones definition of an athlete. IMO, darts is not athletic and it is not a sport, despite the fact that there is some athletic skill involved. The level of athleticism is too minimal for me to consider it athletic.
First, I made a distinction between athletics and sports. The game criteria I set forth was placed within my definition of a sport, not my definition of athletics
Second, I stated OR because I meant OR (reasons already given)
I didn't accuse you of editing my posts. I was simply hinting that the answer to your confusion was in the part of the quote you left off.
As far as you dart comment, like bowling and other things, like I stated in a previous post, ones definition is subjective, which is the main topic of this thread after all. Even using the dictionary definition, one can include darts and poker. It comes down to the level to which these skills and strengths are set in order to fit within ones definition of an athlete. IMO, darts is not athletic and it is not a sport, despite the fact that there is some athletic skill involved. The level of athleticism is too minimal for me to consider it athletic.
I would like to add this thought. Defense is supposed to prevent you from suceeding, correct?
Therefore "sports" like golf, skiing, Nascar, cycling can be construed to have defense.
For example, the course itself is the defense in golf; doglegs, narrow fairways, sandtraps, water hazards.
Cycling and Nascar share some qualities, both are predominately an individual sport but there is a team element and certainly defense can be argued when the cut each other off to prevent passing or a team mate blocks for another and in cycling, the course again plays defense by being difficult to complete.
Skiing falls along the same lines as golf, the course provides the defense in the sense that the grade of the slope, having to pass through gates, weather conditions all acting in concert to prevent the skiier from finishing, etc.
As for being a game, timed events are a game, it's called beat the clock. I would change your definition to objective scoring in place of game thus ruling out all judged events.
I agree that to be a "sport" there has to be athleticism, an objective scoring system or game as you stated (goal, points, timer, basket), an element of offense and defense and it has to be a competition, meaning winner and losers.
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