What is the future of dish network ?

[caboclipper]

What do you think is the future of dish network ?

This is an honest question.
I have heard all kind of ghost stories regarding dish network.

They launched a new satellite to add more hd channels, but only for new customers. However my brother just got his brand new dish network account and all he got was two 211 receivers and signals from sat 119 & 110. What are they using the 72.7 and the 77 for ?
My brother gets no smart cards with his brand new system. They say they will come on the mail sometime on the next 90 days or so.
Wouldn't be a lot easier to start installing all the new stuff to all the new customers ?

Then I read all kind of problems with smart card installation, activation and delivery. Who is the Einstein who planned all this ?

What will happen with all those million users that are on their 70's or 80's ? they do not know how to install smart cards. they are used to easy. what should they have to do different ?

Then I read of people from San Diego and south Texas having no reception from satellite 110, and they are told they can switch to sat 72.7 to get the exact same channels but it will not work without the new smart cards. Cards that might take months to get. But also they are told that they will fix sat 110 so everybody will get it back.

Is dish network willing to re aim 13 million+ dishes all over America ?

It looks to me that right now they have too many satellites with duplicate channels, but at the same time even with all those satellites people is having all kind of problems.

Then I read of dish firing tech support people.
Are they nuts !!!
This is only going to get things worse for them !!!

Then I learned they planned to launch a dish network Mexico service, using sat 77. But it was supposed to happen 4 months ago, nothing happens. Not it seems that the 77 sat is no longer going to be used for Mexico. It will be used for America. Don't they have enough satellites already ?

So does anybody knows what will happen in the long run ?

The Murphy laws suggests that in will get worse before it gets better.

Caboclipper

 

[WiCkeDuDe]

Im not even going to try and correct all the mis-infomation going on here. Did it ever occur to you that some locations may not be able to see the same satellites as other locations????

 

[Laddyboy]

What do you think is the future of dish network ?

This is an honest question.
I have heard all kind of ghost stories regarding dish network.

They launched a new satellite to add more hd channels, but only for new customers. However my brother just got his brand new dish network account and all he got was two 211 receivers and signals from sat 119 & 110. What are they using the 72.7 and the 77 for ?
My brother gets no smart cards with his brand new system. They say they will come on the mail sometime on the next 90 days or so.
Wouldn't be a lot easier to start installing all the new stuff to all the new customers ?

There are 2 groups of satellites, the western arc (WA) comprised of 110, 119, and 129W and eastern arc (EA) comprised of 61.5, 72.7, and 77W. The two arcs have identical programming with the exception of local channels (LiL) and regional sports networks (RSN). The EA currently is for brand new spanking subscibers in certain markets (DMAs), although any sub can use it with the new smartcards and if they have dishes pointed at the satellites. There are locations in the eastern U.S. that cannot see the 110 and 119 satellites but can see the 72.7 and 77 satellites. 129W and 61.5W basically have the same programming with the exception of RSNs and LiLs. 110 and 119 programming is identical to 72.7 and 77 programming for the most part, excepting RSNs and LiLs. Many existing subscribers have a dish pointed at 110 and 119 and another at 61.5 to obtain their locals and HD programming. New receivers may not need the new smartcards because they may come with the new smartcard already installed internally.

Then I read all kind of problems with smart card installation, activation and delivery. Who is the Einstein who planned all this ?

I've seen very few problems reported with smartcard installation. You put in the new card and wait a few minutes and it's done. I'm not sure where you're getting your information.

What will happen with all those million users that are on their 70's or 80's ? they do not know how to install smart cards. they are used to easy. what should they have to do different ?

If they can't slide a card into a designated slot on the front of their receiver, well, that's pretty bad. Perhaps they can get a younger relative to do it for them.

Then I read of people from San Diego and south Texas having no reception from satellite 110, and they are told they can switch to sat 72.7 to get the exact same channels but it will not work without the new smart cards. Cards that might take months to get. But also they are told that they will fix sat 110 so everybody will get it back.

I don't know anything about SD or S Texas reception of 110. 110 is a brand new satellite with lots of power. I suppose it's possible people in some locations may not be getting a great signal, but that's nothing new with satellite reception. Larger dishes can be used as well. Many people already have the new cards and I think most will by the end of the month.

Is dish network willing to re aim 13 million+ dishes all over America ?

Why would they need to reaim 13 mil+ dishes? Most people already have dishes aimed at 110 and 119 and get excellent reception. Some HD locals are on 110, but most will be on 61.5 and 77 for the EA cities and on 129 for the WA cities. A brand spanking new satellite is to be launched in December to replace the current 129 satellite. In the cases where subs already have dishes aimed at the WA satellites and have their locals on one of the EA satellites, Dish (E*) is installing a wing dish so those subs can receive their locals should the sub desire to do so.

It looks to me that right now they have too many satellites with duplicate channels, but at the same time even with all those satellites people is having all kind of problems.

Installers will have some flexability with duplicate ars for subs who have line of site problems. Remember there are areas in the eastern U.S. that are not adequately covered by the 110-119-129 satellite footprints that need to be serviced.

Then I read of dish firing tech support people.
Are they nuts !!!
This is only going to get things worse for them !!!

I'm not aware of E* firing tech support personnel in any large amount. E*'s customer support can be bad at times as can most companies'.

Then I learned they planned to launch a dish network Mexico service, using sat 77. But it was supposed to happen 4 months ago, nothing happens. Not it seems that the 77 sat is no longer going to be used for Mexico. It will be used for America. Don't they have enough satellites already ?

The 77 slot belongs to Mexico so E* will provide some programming to Mexico from that slot on half the transponders or some-such if I recall correctly.

So does anybody knows what will happen in the long run ?

The Murphy laws suggests that in will get worse before it gets better.

Caboclipper

It may or may not. I suspect by March many things will be much better as there will be a brand new replacement satellite up with more satellites on order.

 

[bradleys]

caboclipper,

Googling around, I see that the churn for both satellite providers is in the 1.6 percent to 1.9 percent range, with Dish higher. While not in the same industry, the Vonage phone service has a churn of about 3.3 percent.

Even if Dish starts losing money (I don't think they are, right now), companies can lose money for a long time. The satellite radio companies (now company) have never made money.

Here's a phrase from Dish's proxy for a recent annual meeting. This phrase says it all.

"Through his direct or indirect ownership of Class A Shares and Class B Shares, Charles W. Ergen, our Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer, possesses approximately 80% of our total voting power."

Of course, there are certain specific things that Dish must do to meet government regulation. Beyond that, however, they do pretty much what Charlie wants. So, that's the future of Dish Network.

 

[TheKrell]

However my brother just got his brand new dish network account and all he got was two 211 receivers and signals from sat 119 & 110.

That does not make sense. 211's are current model single-tuner HD receivers. If your brother didn't get a dish for either 129 or 61.5, he should get his dumba$$ installer to come back out and finish the job!

 

[jerryez]

The techs fired were installers that were providing ilegal services to customers. They should have been put in jail.

Caboclipper, where are you located. Mexico, perhaps?

 

[jerryez]

That does not make sense. 211's are current model single-tuner HD receivers. If your brother didn't get a dish for either 129 or 61.5, he should get his dumba$$ installer to come back out and finish the job!

He probably does not have a HD TV, so all he would need are two 211s, since they did not hook him up for the third sat.

 

[geonaz]

Dear Caboclipper, I am in my 70's, I installed my smart cards and had my system running in less than five minutes. I am in my seventies and obviously am smarter than you because I find out things for myself and pay little attention to negative worriers. The big problem with people in their seventies is that they spawned people like yourself. Sorry for the rant but maybe you will see how ridiculous it is to worry when you do not have the facts. I really don't believe you are less smart than me. You are just confused. You have lots of company. Just relax. Most people have had no problems.

 

[WiCkeDuDe]

because I find out things for myself and pay little attention to negative worriers.

Sadly this is no longer the case with people. It is now the fad to bitch and moan about it and pass the blame to someone else.

 

[vegassatellite]

Sadly this is no longer the case with people. It is now the fad to bitch and moan about it and pass the blame to someone else.

What are you talking about. Things are awful and its all your fault.

 

[whatchel1]

He sounds like some sort of troll.

 

[WiCkeDuDe]

What are you talking about. Things are awful and its all your fault.

LOL. Your right Vegas. That brings back my tech days. Yes it is my fault

I do have alot of respect for people like Geonaz and others who research for themselves and try to fix problems. I will never fault anyone for trying to learn. What I cant stand is when people have the facts totally wrong and go around blaming everyone and everything, yet make no effort to seek the truth. Oh well what can ya do?

 

[ZBoomer]

110 getting a poor signal in TX? Say what? Man that satellite about burns down my LNB it comes in so strong, lol.

 

[MikeD-C05]

DISH's future is looking murky to me. IF they don't get off their butts and add some more national hd and hd locals , they will be left to far behind to ever catch up.

They need to improve the following:

1. ADD MORE hd and hd locals. Make it a one dish solution instead of multiple sat dishes to receive said programming.

2. Fire their advertising agency and find one that can compete with Directv's. Frank whats his name is funny but can't compete with DIRectv's great commercials like the latest one for the Poltergist and the Vacation one with Christie Brinkley.

3. MOVE all Customer service back to the U.S. and use AMERICANS with english as their first language. Nothing worse than trying to understand "Bagdad Bob or Betty " to change something on your account.

4. SIMPLIFY all programming packs & fees and how you get them. It shouldn't take an accounting degree to figure out how to get what you want.

a)Dvr advantage should be easy to add to any programming pack and it should include ALL dvrs covered. So if you want Family pack and dvr advantage so be it, and top 100 +dvr advantage ,top 200 +dvr advantage,top 250 dvr advantage etc.

Same for hd . You should just pay one hd tech fee like Directv charges and you can have all the hd in your programming pack . You shouldn't have to be a geologist to add hd to your programming pack and know the difference between gold , silver,platinum,bronze. This is complicated and the average Joe out there just wants hd . SIMPLIFY THIS !

b)Eliminate all excess dvr fees and you will attract more subs. Your extra fees are killing you and you could make that up by volume of customers added ,rather than piling on excess fees to existing subs. Adversely positive word of mouth by subs will be the best advertising you can get. DISH added all kinds of new subs when they advertised fee less dvrs like the 501/721/921. It is time to return to this ,especially in economic hard times like today.

c) Stop hiking the prices of your additional receiver fees and pay per views. You have the highest fees for both in the satellite business and you advertise that you are the low cost leader in satellite tv. THis is hypocritical and people HATE a person or company that says one thing but their actions say something else. Directv charges 4.99 for additional receivers no matter if they are hd or not. Directv charges 3.99 for pay per views and 4.99 for hd pay per views. DISH charges 4.99 for sd , 5.99 for hd , 6.99 for pre recorded pay per views on DISH's portion of your hard drive. DISH has the highest additional receiver fees too. For sd receivers the price is 6.00 and for hd 7.00 and mean while Directv is still charging 4.99 like always for all receivers.

D) Simplify your sat receivers and eliminate the olders ones and stop supporting all those ancient relics . Did we need a 612 receiver when the 622/722 could do the same thing in single mode? THis is silly and a waste of resources . All you need is a simple hd receiver that can do either hd or sd and an hd dvr that can do hd or sd . WE don't need multiple versions of these receivers . SIMPLIFY THIS and you will save money in the long run. Most people don't care what kind they get as long as it does what they want. We don't need a new model every year like the new car industry. Try adding new feature modules to the existing sat receivers instead and you can still make money without charging the existing subs for a new one every time you add a new feature. The 722k or 922 will have this feature with the add on module for 2 ota tuners. This is the direction I am talking about.

In the end it will be the bean counters who bring down DISH . They will make profit off the backs of their existing subs for a while but in the end they will keep losing new subs and existing subs. A company that never adds to their totals will keep contracting till they go under. Besides when all is said and done their is very little difference between DISH and DIRECTV on pricing. Directv has simplified their programming and fees structure and made it simple to add what you want and take off what you want online and they don't gouge you when you subtract programming. IF it wasn't for DIRECTV's crappy dvrs they would have all the subs right now, including me. . THey have more hd than DISH and they also have more sports and they don't seem to suffer the public fights between the channel providers like DISH does.


IF DISH doesn't do some or all of what I have outlined their future will keep getting worse. THe age of greed is over and the age of financial, fiscal responsibility is coming next year. You can keep operating like a greedy pig who charges for every new fee you can think of and your base of subs will get smaller and smaller till you become irrelavant in the industry. Lets get Back to the basics of what made DISH great and you will find your future as a company. SO lets make 2009 the year that DISH goes "back to the future ."

 

[FLORIDA-CELLULAR]

If they secure their signal , they will be around for a long time and prospering. if not, expect them to be bought up within 18 months.

 

[vegassatellite]

Great post, MikeD, hats off to you. Let me add to it if I may.

1. Eliminate additional outlet fees for subscribers to America's Everything Pak or equivalent. No phone line requirement for that. Doing this will snatch up the top spending customers from DirecTV and cable.

2. Start moving the movie channels to MPEG4 8PSK and upgrade those subs who get them to MPEG4 equipment. Follow this with the extra channels in the Top 250 and then on down. This should help with securing the signal somewhat.

No more MPEG 2 receivers in production. Make the 211 a standard replacement to a 311, a 222 a standard replacement to the 322 and the 722 a standard replacement for the 625/522.

Install a wifi module in the receiver or at least make the USB capable of supporting a wifi dongle. They're as cheap as $10-20 and DISH could even brand their own and sell them to customers by ensuring they have software support for their wifi dongles.

 

[AriesGodofWar]

Dumb question, but can't you hook a wireless network adapter to the 622/722's?

 

[vegassatellite]

Dumb question, but can't you hook a wireless network adapter to the 622/722's?

Yeah, you can use a bridge, but they're around $100. You can't just connect a wifi dongle to them right now.

 

[Zero327]

DISH's future is looking murky to me. IF they don't get off their butts and add some more national hd and hd locals , they will be left to far behind to ever catch up.

They need to improve the following:

1. ADD MORE hd and hd locals. Make it a one dish solution instead of multiple sat dishes to receive said programming.

Works in theory but there's limited transponders per satellite, so not too likely unless you like your pixel-count crunched even further. (Which will just result in more whining?)

2. Fire their advertising agency and find one that can compete with Directv's. Frank whats his name is funny but can't compete with DIRectv's great commercials like the latest one for the Poltergist and the Vacation one with Christie Brinkley.

My suggestion was George Carlin, Bernie Mac or Whoopi Goldberg... but Chuck didn't want to dish out the cash. What a surprise?

3. MOVE all Customer service back to the U.S. and use AMERICANS with english as their first language. Nothing worse than trying to understand "Bagdad Bob or Betty " to change something on your account.

CSR's state side cost at range $8-11/hr. Habib costs $.025 a call under three minutes. Not gonna happen. (We're not going to discuss the fact that Charlie already promised this. Charlie likes to promise lots of things.)

4. SIMPLIFY all programming packs & fees and how you get them. It shouldn't take an accounting degree to figure out how to get what you want.

It doesn't take an Accounting degree... Commerce and Finance 4-years though...

a)Dvr advantage should be easy to add to any programming pack and it should include ALL dvrs covered. So if you want Family pack and dvr advantage so be it, and top 100 +dvr advantage ,top 200 +dvr advantage,top 250 dvr advantage etc.

You're talking about DISH, not D*. Keep dreamin.

Same for hd . You should just pay one hd tech fee like Directv charges and you can have all the hd in your programming pack . You shouldn't have to be a geologist to add hd to your programming pack and know the difference between gold , silver,platinum,bronze. This is complicated and the average Joe out there just wants hd . SIMPLIFY THIS !

Average Joe will pay for it just as he does now though so...?

b)Eliminate all excess dvr fees and you will attract more subs. Your extra fees are killing you and you could make that up by volume of customers added ,rather than piling on excess fees to existing subs. Adversely positive word of mouth by subs will be the best advertising you can get. DISH added all kinds of new subs when they advertised fee less dvrs like the 501/721/921. It is time to return to this ,especially in economic hard times like today.

Yea... No. This is a minimum $50M revenue gain annually. If you can guarantee Chuck a MINIMUM of that return if the fee is eliminated in additional (and LOYAL) new customers, you might have a prayer. But in an economy and even before where people consider television a luxury; just no. Remember that on top of that $50M you have to prove to Charlie you'll make up for some other way, you have to recover the new customer acquisition costs under your "volume of customers added" or again you're cutting into that $50M. There's no justification to drop this fee, hard times or no.

c) Stop hiking the prices of your additional receiver fees and pay per views. You have the highest fees for both in the satellite business and you advertise that you are the low cost leader in satellite tv. THis is hypocritical and people HATE a person or company that says one thing but their actions say something else. Directv charges 4.99 for additional receivers no matter if they are hd or not. Directv charges 3.99 for pay per views and 4.99 for hd pay per views. DISH charges 4.99 for sd , 5.99 for hd , 6.99 for pre recorded pay per views on DISH's portion of your hard drive. DISH has the highest additional receiver fees too. For sd receivers the price is 6.00 and for hd 7.00 and mean while Directv is still charging 4.99 like always for all receivers.

And yet more people keep signing up. Hypocrites in some cases make money. And then there's the "everyone hikes their prices too, we're just following suite."

D) Simplify your sat receivers and eliminate the olders ones and stop supporting all those ancient relics . Did we need a 612 receiver when the 622/722 could do the same thing in single mode? THis is silly and a waste of resources . All you need is a simple hd receiver that can do either hd or sd and an hd dvr that can do hd or sd . WE don't need multiple versions of these receivers . SIMPLIFY THIS and you will save money in the long run. Most people don't care what kind they get as long as it does what they want. We don't need a new model every year like the new car industry. Try adding new feature modules to the existing sat receivers instead and you can still make money without charging the existing subs for a new one every time you add a new feature. The 722k or 922 will have this feature with the add on module for 2 ota tuners. This is the direction I am talking about.

Granny Agnus loves her 111, and it gives her all the new-fangled tele-mavision she could ever want, and you want to turn her off? She pays on time every month, which is more than you can say for 30% of all HD customers... Why turn off the cashflow?

In the end it will be the bean counters who bring down DISH . (Dollars, not beans.) They will make profit off the backs of their existing subs (don't forget employees and retailers) for a while but in the end they will keep losing new subs and existing subs (but more sign up you see). A company that never adds to their totals will keep contracting till they go under. Besides when all is said and done their is very little difference between DISH and DIRECTV on pricing. But...but.... DISH won the J.D. Power and Associates award back in what, '01? Directv has simplified their programming and fees structure and made it simple to add what you want and take off what you want online and they don't gouge you when you subtract programming. IF it wasn't for DIRECTV's crappy dvrs they would have all the subs right now, including me. . Yeah, but look at all the mean things you posted. You're not wanted anymore! THey have more hd than DISH and they also have more sports and they don't seem to suffer the public fights between the channel providers like DISH does.


IF DISH doesn't do some or all of what I have outlined their future will keep getting worse. THe age of greed is over Fannie Mae just got bailed out. Are you kidding? and the age of financial, fiscal responsibility is coming next year Not til Jan 20th. That's still a good 2 1/2 months at millions of direct-to-pocket dollars a month!. You can keep operating like a greedy pig who charges for every new fee you can think of Comcast is the pig. This is more like the sloth. and your base of subs will get smaller and smaller till you become irrelavant in the industry. Dude, I totally split off Echostar because I don't care about DISH anymore. I made my billions. Don't you read Forbes? Lets get Back to the basics of what made DISH great Where's the incentive to do that again? and you will find your future as a company. SO lets make 2009 the year that DISH goes "back to the future ."

I never liked Delorians. Maybe with the butterfly doors and hover-wheels we can make a go of it though.

 

[caboclipper]

dear geonaz
no ofense intended
I wish I am as sharp when I reach my 70's
However think about it, how many people at any age are what I call tech-ignorant ? I mean people who do not even understand how to switch from input 1 to input 2 on their tv sets.
That is my concern. A lot of people will get their new smart cards and they will have a hard time understanding how to simply insert them on the right receiver.