What is meant by "cascadable" multiswitch...

[diitto]

As I said in another post I am wanting to add a 5th output to my current oval dish, triple LNB, standard four output system... And I've been reading a lot of posts here... From what I am reading I need to buy a 4x8 or a 5x8 multiswitch to put in line with the current (embedded) four output switch that lives inside the triple LNB dish... But what is meant by "cascadable"...?? I get the sense (from reading) that I need that but I'm not sure... One post I read says that all 4x8's would be cascadable whether it says that explicitly or not??? Is this true??? The intent would be to buy say a 4x8 switch and input all four of my current outputs from my triple LNB setup in to those 4 inputs... If it do that am I good to go whether it says it's cascadable or not??? And what about being a powered switch... Do I need a powered switch or will an unpowered switch work ok??? My runs are about 50 feet each, from dish to receivers... And in anticipation of soon upgrading to the new Ka-Ku band satellite dish, would I be wise to buy a switch with more frequency bandwidth that what many switches might offer?? I am seeing this new Zinwell WB68 DIRECTV Approved Wide Band Frequency (Ku/Ka) 6x8 Multiswitch mentioned here or there... Would this be a good choice or not??? Any help would be appreciated... thanks... bob...

 

[dragon002]

all newer 4x8, 5x8 and 6x8 M/Ss are cascadable.

if it comes with a power supply, you HAVE to use it.

 

[sheridan]

I answered your other post, but I see here that you are anticipating going to the AT9. I think that the WB68 switch is supposed to be included in a normal install. If I am wrong, Dragon will correct me.

What you do depends on when you anticipate doing the upgrade. The bottom line, is you need a switch. Do you spend the money on one now that will be unusable (if you get anything besides the WB68) when you upgrade or do you buy the WB68 now, knowing that if you wait it will be free?

Again, If I miss it here, Dragon will jump on me.

 

[dragon002]

sheridan,

you said it all.

 

[diitto]

still confused by what is meant by "cascadable"

I just found this page,

http://zcwc.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=31&osCsid=1ca2e70cc6f83d1ddf6aff7975ba078f

and quoted from that page is the following...

"wide band 6x8 multi-switch

DirecTV Approved Wide-Band Ku/Ka 6x8 multi-switch.
WB-68 is mainly designed to connect 99°/101°/103°/110°/119° DirecTV satellites for upto 8 receiver reception. Flex Port 1 and Flex Port 2 are used for 72.5° and/or 95° satellite reception. WB-68 is not cascadable.

Warning: Do not put any terminator on any unused input/output ports of this switch."

Note the statement that "WB-68 is not cascadable"... Can someone say more about this?? Is this true??? And what really is the meaning of cascadable??? thanks... diitto...

 

[dragon002]

it is not cascadable from one to another, but from the at9 built in it is a primary M/S

 

[damaged]

And what really is the meaning of cascadable??? thanks... diitto...

Something arranged or occurring in a series or in a succession of stages so that each stage derives from or acts upon the product of the preceding.

 

[sheridan]

In other words, putting two or more switches together in succession to get even more outputs. Something that shouldn't be a concern for the average installation.

The WB68 gives you 8 outputs. Do you really need more than that?

 

[diitto]

You said "The WB68 gives you 8 outputs. Do you really need more than that?" And to that, no, I only need five so certainly 8 is more than enough... But what I don't understand is what happens to the multiswitch that already sits (and always has) inside the triple LNB dish (or the newer dish which I assume also has a built in multiswitch). This new WB68 would be downstream of that and if this switch is non-cascadable doesn't that imply that it doesn't communicate with or in any way talk to the upstream built in switch??? That has been my big question all along... I don't understand what state the switches are in for the upstream switch when you insert another downstream switch in between that switch and the receivers... If a receiver sends out, say for example, 18 volts and 20 kHz tone on, I trust the first (new) switch would see and respond to that signal but does the upstream switch see that signal as well?? Especially if the downstream switch is non-cascadable?? My entire confusion relates to what happens to the states of the four outputs on that upstream, built in multiswitch once you put another switch in series with it downstream??? Of perhaps to ask it differently if I just held in my hand the multiswitch out of say a current triple LNB dish and looked to see what outputs connect to what inputs (with no hi/lo voltage, no tone, no nothing) what would I find??? Does input 1 connect to output 1 and so forth or do none of the inputs connect to any of the outputs or what???? It's the concept of how this hi/low voltage or presence/absence of the 20 kHz tone propagates from one multiswitch to another, especially if this second, downstream switch is "non-cascadable" that is confusing me... Any more detailed discussion of how this all works would be much appreciated... thanks... diitto...

 

[damaged]

As far as I can tell, (and corrections are welcome), with an extra switch, the built-in one is 'fooled' into thinking that the extra switch is really just 4 STBs, in a way, the extra switch just 'hides' the fact that there are 8 tuners controlling the line, and just multiplexes the 4 extra signals (8 total) to 'fit' into 4 (the built-in switch).

In D*s case, it does not matter which order the 4 outputs from the built-in one go into the 4 inputs to the extra switch, so as long as _all_ 4 are connected.

 

[diitto]

Ah, now that makes sense... Good point... I was going to respond and say "but what if my five receivers are all tuned to five different channels".... But then I answered my own question by noting that even though yes of course there can be five different channels tuned by the five different receiver loads, still there can only be at most four different, unique signals that ever make it back to the satellites' multiswitch and that would be 13 volts/no tone, 18 volts/no tone, 13 volts/with tone, and 18 volts/with tone. The receivers then decode individual channels from that group of four choices and it's only in this individual receivers being able to decode individual channels that you get more than four (five in the case I stated above) unique possibilities. And yes, I have read many places that to add this multiswitch, one must be sure to hook up all four signals out of the current multiswitch into four inputs of this new switch...

I still have the question of what does one find on each of the four outputs of the built-in multiswitch when no programming voltages or tones are being sent to it... Somehow, I would assume each of the four inputs must appear on one of the four outputs because since I am no longer going to be programming this switch (??) it would seem like it is as though that switch has been removed and replaced with straight through cables that go to the LNB's... Yes??? Am I still missing something?? Or is it that programming voltages ARE still getting to that built in switch but if so, wouldn't that say the downstream multiswitch is, after all, cascadable which goes against what I quoted from another site in an early post in this thread...

Comments??? Further guidance??? I am close to just buying one of these WB 68 switches but I'd like to be more confident that I know what I'm doing and I'm not quite there yet... But closer... thanks for the help... diitto...

 

[damaged]

If I understand you correctly, yes, the voltages (the commands) are seen by the built-in just as if the extra switch was not there (hence, the term, cascadable), BUT, the built-in can ONLY handle 4 STBs at once, now, the extra multiswitch CAN handle more than 4, but the built-in never has to know this, the x8 will translate any of the 8 tuners commands into a format that the built-in x4 can understand. The extra switch acts like a traffic guard of sorts (it takes 8 lanes of traffic, and puts it into 4 lanes, then it takes the reply from the 4 lanes, and inserts it onto the proper lane on the 8 lane road), it still passes all the signals to the built-in, but it prevents 8 seperate commands (if all 8 changed channels/voltages/sats at the same time) from confusing the built-in x4 by pretending to be 4 STBs, once the command is issued, the x4 sends the 'reply' back to the x8 (the x4, however thinks it's sending the reply to a STB, when it really isn't), now the x8 then reroutes the command to the proper tuner hooked to one of the 8 lines.

So basically, the built-ins becomes a 'dumb' relay, and the extra switch takes over as the 'smart' distributer to the STBs.

 

[dcwebman]

The WB68 gives you 8 outputs. Do you really need more than that?

Unfortunately yes. When you start adding DVR's, they take 2 outputs each and that's when it starts adding up. I need 9 outputs now and I'm sure when my step-daughter gets older she'll want a DVR too.

 

[sheridan]

Point taken, but since the WB68 is not cascadable, how do you get around that?

 

[grydlok]

Point taken, but since the WB68 is not cascadable, how do you get around that?

I am using four 5-3ghz spliiters and two 6X8's.

 

[sheridan]

Okay, that's not really cascading, but splitting. But it works. apparently. Anything to be aware of in doing that?