What E* told me about Voom programming...

[Jamey K]

Lurker, excellent!!!! I'm printing your chart out as we speak.

 

[searswd]

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the responces. I really felt 3 inches tall when talk to the guy.

 

[T2k]

They are transmitting the same number of full frames. The three highest HDTV levels are:
1080/24p (x1920, Square or 16:9)
1080/30p (x1920, Square or 16:9)
1080/30i (x1920, Square or 16:9) = 1080i HDTV
These three are 2,073,600 pixels per frame (24p would be slighly lower bandwidth with the same compression due to less frames)

The next highest HDTV levels are (921,600 pixels):
720/24p (x1280, Square or 16:9)
720/30p (x1280, Square or 16:9)
720/60p (x1280, Square or 16:9)
24p would have the lowest bandwidth requirement moving up to 60p (60 full frames per second compared to 30 full frames in 30p or 30i formats).

The remainder of the 18 ATSC formats are not HD. ALL ATSC tuners MUST be able to tune ALL 18 formats. No ATSC TV is required to display *in* HD.

Monitors must be able to display 810i or 540p in the 16:9 viewable area to be defined as HD. Monitors less than 480p or NTSC are defined as SD. The middle ground is ED.

I'd like to see movies move to 1080/24p or 720/24p - primary movie channels in 1080 and additional channels in 720/24p or 480/24p. The 20% savings in frames can go toward decreasing the compression needed.

Voom has a 25% reduction by using 1440 width and DirecTV has 33% by using 1280. Going to 24p is a good way of saving 20% without losing a pixel.

JL

Ahem.

Apparently everybody forgot that 1440x1080 is a standard MPEG2 profile - read on: http://videosystems.com/mag/video_profiles_levels/index.html

 

[James Long]

Ahem.

Apparently everybody forgot that 1440x1080 is a standard MPEG2 profile - read on: http://videosystems.com/mag/video_profiles_levels/index.html

It is not one of the 18 that the FCC has accepted for ATSC, and therefore cannot be considered one of their 6 HD formats.

I suppose one could accept it as HD outside of the FCC accepted ATSC context. Just like we accept 480x480 scanned images as standard "SD" channels on satellite. But it is still HDLite, just with more calories than DirecTV.

(And beyond the downrezzing on width there is still the level of compression that can ruin the picture. Voom's 1440HD could be worse than DirecTV's 1280HD if they choked the pipe. E*'s 1920HD could be choked down enough to lose the benefit of having the full pixel width.)

JL

 

[vurbano]

It is not one of the 18 that the FCC has accepted for ATSC, and therefore cannot be considered one of their 6 HD formats.

I suppose one could accept it as HD outside of the FCC accepted ATSC context. Just like we accept 480x480 scanned images as standard "SD" channels on satellite. But it is still HDLite, just with more calories than DirecTV.

(And beyond the downrezzing on width there is still the level of compression that can ruin the picture. Voom's 1440HD could be worse than DirecTV's 1280HD if they choked the pipe. E*'s 1920HD could be choked down enough to lose the benefit of having the full pixel width.)

JL

Since when do the ATSC standards apply to anything but ATSC tuners and OTA broadcasting?

 

[zombie]

They are transmitting the same number of full frames. The three highest HDTV levels are:
1080/24p (x1920, Square or 16:9)
1080/30p (x1920, Square or 16:9)
1080/30i (x1920, Square or 16:9) = 1080i HDTV
These three are 2,073,600 pixels per frame (24p would be slighly lower bandwidth with the same compression due to less frames)
JL

By definition doesnt an interlaced scan only send half the frame at a time vs progressive that sends a combined even/odd twice as often (or a little more in the case of dvd's that use 24 frames per second)?

 

[rvsixer]

The industry has a spec, only 720p or 1080i are HD formats JL

There are six HD formats:
1280x720 (60p, 30p, 24p)
1920x1080 (60i, 30p, 24p)

 

[piperut]

I call E* to cancel my dish service when I was transferred to retention. The person on the other side stated that Voom's HD channels were not really HD but down rezzed. Basically stated that since no one else has those channels that they can not be real HD. Also accused me of not doing research on the matter...

Anyway, Is it true that Voom's HD channels are not really HD? I personally think the channels are excellent looking, but I would like some verification for the technical side of me .

Thanks!

I guess a number of people are switching from Dish to Voom and Dish is not happy. When I was thinking of switching the news came out that Dish was attempting to purchase the Voom Bird Rainbow 1. I asked Dish what their plans were for the bird, and that I was thinking of switching to Voom. They said Voom was dead. I had done enough research to know that Voom was not dead and told them so.

When my wife called to tell them to turn off Dish and we had switch to Voom - they attempted the line that Voom was not true HD. We had it hooked up and were watching it.

So I think Dish is not real happy with Voom.

Roland

 

[vurbano]

FYI, heres a handbook on the ATSC standards, see table 5.1 for all 18 standards.

http://www.atsc.org/standards/a_54a.pdf

 

[Ncc1701]

Dish Cust Retention is brutal. I dont know why people tell the truth and invite an argument with them.

When I cancelled, I told them that my house is scheduled for demolition next week and that I'm moving in with my parents.

The rep closed my account and I was off the phone in less than a minute.

 

[James Long]

By definition doesnt an interlaced scan only send half the frame at a time vs progressive that sends a combined even/odd twice as often (or a little more in the case of dvd's that use 24 frames per second)?

30i is thirty full frames per second sent as 60 half frames (similar to NTSC TV). 30p is thirty full frames per second sent as 30 full frames.

There are six HD formats:
1280x720 (60p, 30p, 24p)
1920x1080 (60i, 30p, 24p)

Not quite - HD
1080/24p, 1080/30p, 1080/30i (x1920, Square or 16:9)
720/24p, 720/30p, 720/60p (x1280, Square or 16:9)

"Enhanced Definition" is
480/24p, 480/30p, 480/60p, 480/30i (x 704, 4:3 or 16:9)
480/24p, 480/30p, 480/60p, 480/30i (x 640, Square or 4:3)

JL