Werner "disappointed" that Manny's not in the lineup

[BillD1984]

If I recall, Manny and company WON that next game and went on to the WS championship too.

Don't kid yourself, they won that game 5 because of Josh Beckett. Nothing else.

Ya gotta love a guy like that because if he's like that then, when a pressure situation arises, it doesn't phase him ... one reason why he's so good.

Jimbo

No, I don't gotta love him, you can if you want to. I have an elderly father and elderly uncles that I'm very close to. The truth is, if a big strapping athlete (or anyone else for that matter) laid their hands on them, I'd be in jail or the hospital.

Is baseball important to me? Sure it is. But what's right and wrong trumps that.

 

[BillD1984]

IF Chicon was any good, he would not have been released either. They would have probably had a meeting with him, maybe fined him and continued on playing.

That's exactly my point. It's a double standard because one guy is productive and the other guy isn't. I was being sarcastic when I questioned why Manny wasn't cut like Chacon was. Sorry, I should have used the sarcasm icon.

About the previous post,
I forgot about the Manny and reporter issue.

That said, it has happened with a good number of players and they get a repremand,it happens in hockey from time to time as well, I remember Hasek in Buffalo I think it was when he pushed the camera man I think it was. Or maybe a reporter.

Was Kenny Roger's cut from the Rangers when he had his blow ups with the media and camera guys ?
NO

Jimbo

Jimbo,

Manny's issue wasn't with a reporter. It was with the Red Sox traveling secretary. Manny requested 15 tickets on very short notice to a Sox game in Houston. The secretary told Manny he would do the best he could,but couldn't promise him anything. It was then that Manny pushed this man down and said something to the effect, "just do your job." This was witnessed by more than a few people.

 

[Jimbo]

Jimbo,

Manny's issue wasn't with a reporter. It was with the Red Sox traveling secretary. Manny requested 15 tickets on very short notice to a Sox game in Houston. The secretary told Manny he would do the best he could,but couldn't promise him anything. It was then that Manny pushed this man down and said something to the effect, "just do your job." This was witnessed by more than a few people.

I remember that , now that you refreshed my memory.
If your going to start making athletes do time for everything that they would if they were just you and I, we've got an aweful long list of players that have been an problem in society.
Start with the Cincinnati Bengals, followed by the Dallas Cowboys and all the other law breaking teams (not the teams, but players on the teams)


Personally, I felt the Manny thing would have been kept behind closed doors if possible.

Jimbo

 

[BillD1984]

Manny must go!!!


Boston Red Sox - Now he's a guaranteed out - The Boston Globe

 

[BillD1984]

Latest episode means it’s time to get rid of Manny Ramirez

By Steve Buckley
Saturday, July 26, 2008 - Updated 7h ago
+ Recent Articles+ Recent Blog Entries


Let’s see if today is the day the Red Sox will reclaim their dignity and toss Manny Ramirezout on his arse.
For years now, the team has been suffering in silence as Manny more or less spits in their collective faces. He has been a master of the phantom injury. He often has patrolled left field with a embarrassing casualness. He has been, in general, a clown, and Fenway Park [map] has been Bozo’s Big Top.
And, always, the Red Sox have looked the other way. This was because they didn’t want to “lose” their Hall of Fame-bound slugger. And in terms of end results, this outrageous enabling by the Red Sox has worked: You can’t argue with two World Series championships in four years.

The Red Sox also recognized they were fighting a losing cause. The fans - that is, those who are card-carrying Manny apologists - love the guy. You so much as raise the slightest bit of ire about the Clown Prince of Baseball, and you are dismissed as a Manny Basher.
But now it’s time for the Red Sox to be big boys about all this and either continue with the enabling . . . or, and let’s say it again, toss Manny out.
Literally. Throw him out. No, wait, that would be violent. And we don’t want to be advocating violence here. That’s Manny’s job - you know, tossing 64-year-old men to the ground and all that.
So escort Manny out to the pavement, right out there on Yawkey Way, and tell him to take his whiny agents and sycophants with him.
It doesn’t get any worse than this, Sox fans. The New York Yankees pulled into town last night to begin a three-game series against the Red Sox, whereupon Manny pulled up lame. He was in the lineup, and then he was not in the lineup. Ramirez already pulled himself out of the lineup the other day in Seattle, now he did it again yesterday.
This time, the Red Sox sent him out for MRIs - on both knees. In other words, the Sox called Manny’s bluff.
Surprise, surprise: The MRIs showed nothing. But common sense tells us Ramirez is playing the Red Sox, and all their fans for suckers. The guy has an 11-game hitting streak, during which he is hitting .487. And he says he’s been playing with a sore knee. Yet after taking himself out of the lineup, he stepped into the batting cage under the first base grandstand and proceeded to rake the ball. Until Manny pulled the curtain on me, I was standing there watching the Clown Prince.
Francona, who met with Red Sox owners John Henry and Tom Werner before the game, later tried to explain that it’s more or less a routine to clue in the owners about MRIs and the like.
Nonsense.
Managers don’t meet with owners every time a player needs an MRI. But you do meet with the owners when there is concern that your star left fielder is tanking it.
But Francona, to his credit, didn’t try very hard to defend Ramirez. Asked if the club feels Ramirez’ contract situation is playing a role in these absences, he said, “I’m not going to tell you what happened in the meeting. We’d have invited you.”
Three weeks ago, three days ago, Francona would have been outraged by that question. He’d have been angered by the mere suggestion that Ramirez would put money ahead of baseball.
Maybe Francona was just tired. Maybe he was ticked off that Yankees starter Joba Chamberlain has decided that his fastball is a dart and that Kevin Youkilis’ head is the dartboard. Maybe the skipper was upset that last night’s umpire, Marty Foster, submitted the worst officiated game in the history of organized sports. (On that subject: Major League Baseball has a moral obligation to watch a replay of Foster’s effort last night.)


Or maybe Tito’s just sick and tired of this Manny-being-Manny nonsense.
We know Sox general manager Theo Epstein is tired of it all. Asked about Ramirez late last night, he said, “I have no comment - for now.”
Let’s hope that the loose translation here is that Manny is going to be fined if he is not in the lineup today.

Better yet, let’s hope that the Red Soxsimply throw Manny out.
Manny has a choice today: Stand in front of the Wall, or behind it.

 

[SabresRule]

Just checked ESPNews- Manny told ESPN Deportes that he wouldn't mind if he was traded.

There is hope, Bill- there is hope.

Just hang on, and he'll be gone soon.

 

[cjwct]

WOW THIS IS GETTING NASTY WITH THESE THREADS . . . ANYWAYS, IT IS REPORTED ON ESPN TODAY AROUND NOON THAT REDSOX, EVEN BEFORE THIS INCIDENT, STARTED TO MAKE CALLS AND GET A FEEL FOR THE MARKET VALUE ON RAMIREZ . . . THINGS WILL GET INTERESTING THIS WEEK ON THIS ISSUE . . . sorry for caps, just realized it

BTW, don't forget, Ramirez is a 10/5 player which basically means he has final say if he stays in Boston or not!!!

Glad to see the turmoil in Red Sox Nation as my Mets begin to start playing as a team!

 

[cjwct]

UPDATE: EspnDeportes reports Manny would approve a trade if "Boston thinks they can do better without him"

 

[BillD1984]

UPDATE: EspnDeportes reports Manny would approve a trade if "Boston thinks they can do better without him"

Maybe or maybe not.............I for one am willing to try!

 

[cjwct]

It's not a question of can they or can they not do better with/without him, the questions is such: can any team offer a comparable power option for the remaining two months? The answer is a resounding NO, so therefore he will be with them till the end of this season!

 

[HD MM]

There's 3 days left before the deadline.

Here's my take:

I'd be awfully surprised if a deal gets done before Thursdays deadline.

By acquiring Manny, that team would have to take on his gigantic $20/million contract for the rest of the year. Is any team in their right mind willing to take on that much money even if it doesn't necessarily guarantee a WS victory?

The Red Sox still want to win this year and as much as the front office and some fans hate to say it, there is just no equal replacement for Manny that can be obtained this year. They will try there best to put up with each other for the remainder of the year and then part ways at the end of the year.

If Manny thinks he's going to get a $25/million yr. contract next year, he's out of his mind. IMO, those $20/million yr. contracts are a thing of the past. One of the only other teams that could afford that type of contract would be the Yankees and with Manny's ongoing issues, there's no way he fits the Yankee mold. Besides, he's past his prime at 36.

 

[HD MM]

BTW, I didn't get to see the Yankees at Red Sox Sunday Night game on ESPN last night.......

Did Manny get booed by the home crowd last night? All of this drama broke before the game, so I'd imagine it was a hot topic in Boston/Fenway last night.

Also, not a bad game by Man-Ram. 3 for 5 with 2 RBI's in route to breaking up the Yankees 8 game win streak.

 

[cosmo_kramer]

By acquiring Manny, that team would have to take on his gigantic $20/million contract for the rest of the year. Is any team in their right mind willing to take on that much money even if it doesn't necessarily guarantee a WS victory?

Yes. Don't forget, it wouldn't be the full $20 M, it would be a pro-rated portion of it. With the production he is still capable of, $7-8 M seems worth it to me as a rental for the right team.

I can't think of a deadline trade that has ever guaranteed a WS victory, can you?

The Red Sox still want to win this year and as much as the front office and some fans hate to say it, there is just no equal replacement for Manny that can be obtained this year. They will try there best to put up with each other for the remainder of the year and then part ways at the end of the year.

I agree they can't receive equal compensation in a deal for Manny. If/when he walks at the end of the year the Sox receive no compensation for him at all. The question then becomes, is it worth it for the rest of this season to put up with the off the field distraction he has become to benefit from his on the field production, or cut ties with him now and get something in return?? I think they will keep him unless an unlikely interesting offer comes along...

If Manny thinks he's going to get a $25/million yr. contract next year, he's out of his mind. IMO, those $20/million yr. contracts are a thing of the past. One of the only other teams that could afford that type of contract would be the Yankees and with Manny's ongoing issues, there's no way he fits the Yankee mold. Besides, he's past his prime at 36.

There is a recent example of a former Red Sox player whom I didn't think "fit the Yankee mold" but despite his statements to the contrary still went to NY anyway (See: Damon, Johnny). And, there is a lot of belief in the "addition by subtraction" principal...

 

[BillD1984]

There's 3 days left before the deadline.

Here's my take:

I'd be awfully surprised if a deal gets done before Thursdays deadline.

By acquiring Manny, that team would have to take on his gigantic $20/million contract for the rest of the year. Is any team in their right mind willing to take on that much money even if it doesn't necessarily guarantee a WS victory?

The Red Sox still want to win this year and as much as the front office and some fans hate to say it, there is just no equal replacement for Manny that can be obtained this year. They will try there best to put up with each other for the remainder of the year and then part ways at the end of the year.

If Manny thinks he's going to get a $25/million yr. contract next year, he's out of his mind. IMO, those $20/million yr. contracts are a thing of the past. One of the only other teams that could afford that type of contract would be the Yankees and with Manny's ongoing issues, there's no way he fits the Yankee mold. Besides, he's past his prime at 36.

It was reported on WEEI Sports Radio this morning, that the Red Sox would pick up the rest of Manny's salary ($7-8 million) in any potential trade. IMO, this is good news because:

A. Obviously it will be easier to find a suitor

B. The Red Sox should get some value (granted probably not equal) in return

The only catch to a potential deal would be, the team picking up Manny would have to agree to NOT pick up his team option in 2009 and let him file for free agency.

With all that in mind, it's not a total reach that a deal could be reached in the next 72 hours. The Phillies have expressed interest (and Manny is very close to Charlie Manuel), so I could see a Ramirez for Pat Burrell swap possibly happening.

 

[HD MM]

It was reported on WEEI Sports Radio this morning, that the Red Sox would pick up the rest of Manny's salary ($7-8 million) in any potential trade. IMO, this is good news because:

A. Obviously it will be easier to find a suitor

B. The Red Sox should get some value (granted probably not equal) in return

The only catch to a potential deal would be, the team picking up Manny would have to agree to NOT pick up his team option in 2009 and let him file for free agency.

With all that in mind, it's not a total reach that a deal could be reached in the next 72 hours. The Phillies have expressed interest (and Manny is very close to Charlie Manuel), so I could see a Ramirez for Pat Burrell swap possibly happening.

Wow! Paying $7-$8 million to ship him off?! I guess Boston has had enough!

 

[HD MM]

There is a recent example of a former Red Sox player whom I didn't think "fit the Yankee mold" but despite his statements to the contrary still went to NY anyway (See: Damon, Johnny). And, there is a lot of belief in the "addition by subtraction" principal...

By "Yankee Mold", I wasn't necessarily talking about the hair. Just the way one plays the game. I can't see the Yankees or many other franchises for that matter adding a player with that character.

 

[BillD1984]

BTW, I didn't get to see the Yankees at Red Sox Sunday Night game on ESPN last night.......

Did Manny get booed by the home crowd last night? All of this drama broke before the game, so I'd imagine it was a hot topic in Boston/Fenway last night.

IMO, Manny got booed more Saturday afternoon. It could be a lot of fans in attendance to last night's game were not in the know of the late afternoon's goings on.