Watching ESPN-HD with 622 set to 1080i

[primetimeguy]

I know there are a lot of things that go into the PQ differences people see on various channels. But I want this thread to stay focused on those using the 622 or 722 on a 1080i display (CRT) with the 622 set to output 1080i.

I have a well calibrated 57" RP CRT and I view from about 10.5ft. Native 1080i channels look stunning. Sporting events on ESPN-HD and other 720p channels always look inferior to 1080i signals. And by this I mean DishHD and OTA. I'm beginning to wonder how much of it has to do with the 622/722 converting the 720p to 1080i. Unfortunatelly my display will not show 720p (nor does it convert it to 1080i) so I don't know for sure. And the only way I can see to test my theory is buying a $1500 video processor to convert the 720p to 1080i and see how that looks......but I don't have the extra cash to do that. So I'm curious as to what others think of the 720p to 1080i conversion on the 622/722 with their CRT. And if you would, please provide your screen size and viewing distance.

For reference, I think the BAL/CIN MNF game looks bad.

Edit: I guess for tonight, bad may be too harsh. Long distance shots such as punts and kickoffs have terrible artifacting. Close-ups are fairly decent. But the semi-close shots just after the snap and as the play is developing just lack the sharpness of 1080i.

 

[adavis720]

51" AVIA calibrated Hitachi.
9' feet viewing distance.
622

The MNF game looks OK to me, not as good as CBS or ABC, but much better than NBC. (at least in my area). I actually think that ESPN's graphics look the best out of all of them. The crowd shots leave a lot to be desired, but the close ups look OK. Slightly washed out colors.

But I can certainly say that Sportscenter usually doesn't look to good to me.

 

[primetimeguy]

51" AVIA calibrated Hitachi.
9' feet viewing distance.
622

The MNF game looks OK to me, not as good as CBS or ABC, but much better than NBC. (at least in my area). I actually think that ESPN's graphics look the best out of all of them. The crowd shots leave a lot to be desired, but the close ups look OK. Slightly washed out colors.

But I can certainly say that Sportscenter usually doesn't look to good to me.

NBC has a lot of issues in many places. Lots of pixilation here. But at least the pre-snap and distance shots have some sharpness to them.

My conclusions have been 1080i is much sharper but can suffer from more artifacting. 720p does not have the artifacting but lacks the sharpness.

 

[primetimeguy]

But I can certainly say that Sportscenter usually doesn't look to good to me.

Perfect example and I agree. My local NBC does news in HD and it is fantastic PQ in the studio. I wish Sports Center looked the same.

 

[kstuart]

I don't see any artifacting, and see very good detail (variations in the sheen of the sweat on the faces, etc.).

But I have a 720p TV, my 622 is set to 720p, and the channel is 720p.

So, none of the components are doing any conversions.

Also, a majority of my sports viewing is still in SD, so my expectations are probably lower.

 

[primetimeguy]

I don't see any artifacting, and see very good detail (variations in the sheen of the sweat on the faces, etc.).

Do you see any artifacts on long shots such as kickoffs and punts? And what size display and what viewing distance.

 

[primetimeguy]

The second MNF game (ARI/SF) is now on ESPN2-HD (MPEG4). PQ is much sharper to me and didn't se artifacting on distant shots. I'll be curious if I see a difference when it switches to ESPN (MPEG2).

 

[mlb]

622 set to 720p outputting to my 720p LCD projector... this is one of the best ESPN MNF football games I've seen in the last 2 years. 110" screen, 12' away.

 

[mlb]

The second MNF game (ARI/SF) is now on ESPN2-HD (MPEG4). PQ is much sharper to me and didn't se artifacting on distant shots. I'll be curious if I see a difference when it switches to ESPN (MPEG2).

Totally agree. I was looking at that as well, since ESPN2HD is MPEG4 and ESPNHD is MPEG2. I can't wait until they move all the remaining channels over.

 

[primetimeguy]

Totally agree. I was looking at that as well, since ESPN2HD is MPEG4 and ESPNHD is MPEG2. I can't wait until they move all the remaining channels over.

I just spent the last few minutes comparing the two as I DVR'd a few minutes of both. Definitely sharper and less artifacts on MPEG4.

I guess I should add that I do agree this is the best MNF PQ I've seen on ESPN in quite some time. But that being said I still rate them as follows:

A CBS
A- NFL Network (much improved over last year)
B+ Tonight's ESPN2-HD (for the few minutes we had it)
B NBC and tonight's ESPN-HD (pick my poison, 720p softness, 1080i
artifacting)
B- ABC
C FOX

 

[PhilAce]

Yeah, the feed on ESPN2 looked much better than the feed on ESPN.

 

[cummingsje]

NBC has a lot of issues in many places. Lots of pixilation here. But at least the pre-snap and distance shots have some sharpness to them.

My conclusions have been 1080i is much sharper but can suffer from more artifacting. 720p does not have the artifacting but lacks the sharpness.

I would have to completely agree with you. My setup:

Sony 46" RPTV (1080i native)
VIP622 set to 1080i
8.5 ft viewing distance

 

[primetimeguy]

Well, I just ordered a Gefen Home Theater Scaler for about $400. There were some problems with these early on but it sounds like the latest firmware had addressed the issues. We'll see how this works converting 720p to 1080i as compared to the 622. If it doesn't improve much I'll return it.

 

[primetimeguy]

Well, I just ordered a Gefen Home Theater Scaler for about $400. There were some problems with these early on but it sounds like the latest firmware had addressed the issues. We'll see how this works converting 720p to 1080i as compared to the 622. If it doesn't improve much I'll return it.

Spent the night getting the Gefen setup. Conclusion.......it doesn't do any better at converting 720p to 1080i than the 622 does. Pretty much what I figured but thought it was worth a try.

 

[primetimeguy]

Spent the night getting the Gefen setup. Conclusion.......it doesn't do any better at converting 720p to 1080i than the 622 does. Pretty much what I figured but thought it was worth a try.

Scratch that last post. I guess I had a couple too many and was doing this while I was too tired. This morning I realized I spent all the time setting up and calibrating the Gefen but never switched the 622 to 720p, so all I was doing was passing 1080i through the Gefen. I'll play around more this weekend.

 

[8bitbytes]

I'm interested in the results, please let us know! And do that here as i don't want to have to come find you over on AVS!

 

[primetimeguy]

Well, round 2 of my testing (this time doing in right) didn't change the results. It was a little difficult to compare as I needed to switch inputs on the TV and resolution on the 622 to get the comparison I wanted. I'd say at best the Gefen scaler did as good a job as the 622 when converting 720p to 1080i, but I think it is actually slightly worse (bit more noise). I tried both component and HDMI connections and did most of the comparing during tonight's college football game on ESPN and some other games on FOX I had recorded for this. If there would have been a drastic improvement using the Gefen I would have seen it. The Gefen is going back. So now either both the 622 and Gefen unit do the same bad job on the 720p to 1080i conversion, or I definitely see a big difference in sharpness between 720p and 1080i on my display at my viewing distance.

 

[kstuart]

I hate to tell you, but some people report that ESPN-HD is temporarily scaled up from 720p to 1080i at the uplink center. So, the signal coming in to your 622 may not be 720p.

I have no way of knowing whether that is still the case.

National Geographic HD and ESPN2 HD are known to be 720p on Dish.

 

[primetimeguy]

I hate to tell you, but some people report that ESPN-HD is temporarily scaled up from 720p to 1080i at the uplink center. So, the signal coming in to your 622 may not be 720p.

I recall seeing posts about this a while back as well, but never really heard a final answer or where we stand now. I did have some ABC and FOX OTA programming to use in my comparison as well.