Voom PQ?
- Thread starter neo0285
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- Nov 29, 2003
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neo0285 said:
Yes, but I suspect all providers do to some degree, I just switched from E* ( who some say has the best HD picture ) to Comcast, and I was surprised that it has a sharper picture then E*, but I know cable is different everywhere.
- Nov 29, 2003
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vurbano said:
Click on the picture with HD CINEMA 4, then it shows all the channels on that transponder, then go to the bottom:
PMT PID 4094 (0x0ffe) - Network
PMT PID 553 (0x0229) - Program 2
PMT PID 617 (0x0269) - Program 3 HD CINEMA 4
PMT PID 681 (0x02a9) - Program 4 HBO HD EAST
PMT PID 41 (0x0029) - Program 5
PMT PID 105 (0x0069) - Program 6 fox sports world
PMT PID 169 (0x00a9) - Program 7 CNN HEADLINE NEWS
PMT PID 233 (0x00e9) - Program 8
PMT PID 297 (0x0129) - Program 9
PMT PID 361 (0x0169) - Program 10 COURT TV
PMT PID 425 (0x01a9) - Program 11 GAME SHOW
PMT PID 4078 (0x0fee) - Program 65532
and then you will find this:
0x0290 (18.50% - 8.90 Mbps) 0x0290 MPEG-2 Video for program 4
0x0291 (0.78% ~ 0.38 Mbps) 0x0291 AC-3 Audio for program 4
0x02a9 (0.04% ~ 0.02 Mbps) 0x02a9 MPEG-2 PMT for program 4
- Nov 29, 2003
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neo0285 said:
Never have seen V*'s picture (except at Sears, which does not count) so I can't compare, my comment was about Dish Network ( E* ) which I dropped last week for Comcast because of more HD and the mighty HD-DVR ( I love this thing ).
Neo,
What I meant was that IMO several of the hd channels like the premiums and discovery were noticeably soft on voom and much crisper and sharper from my cable provider. Why that is I don't know but the difference is such that I watch a great deal more HBO and Discovery from my cable provider than I did when I had those channels through Voom. So, it was quite a noticeable difference to me. I should note that I ran the Voom and the cable through the same component connection and still noticed the same thing when I ran Voom through the DVI.
I do agree that cable pq varies a great deal from area to area. From what I've seen, my local cable company's hd picture quality is unusually good.
What I meant was that IMO several of the hd channels like the premiums and discovery were noticeably soft on voom and much crisper and sharper from my cable provider. Why that is I don't know but the difference is such that I watch a great deal more HBO and Discovery from my cable provider than I did when I had those channels through Voom. So, it was quite a noticeable difference to me. I should note that I ran the Voom and the cable through the same component connection and still noticed the same thing when I ran Voom through the DVI.
I do agree that cable pq varies a great deal from area to area. From what I've seen, my local cable company's hd picture quality is unusually good.
bruce said:
where does it say 1440 for HBO? the voom originals are probably done at 1440 x1080i because it matches the cam resolution.I dont see info on the premium channel resolutions like HBO and Showtime. Did I miss them?
bruce said:
That statement is so wrong I dont know where to begin. The numbers are instantaneous readings or averages. Anyone who saw the fight this weekend on Voom didnt see the problems they saw on D*.D* video is obviously demanding more bits that D* will give it. I dont see that problem on Voom. Unless you compare readings at the exact same time and on the exact same video at that time you cannot compare. And then the numbers would undoubtably be higher for V*. even assuming they are doing 1440 vs 1280 on D*. The bitrate would have to be higher to prevent pixelation at 1440. And since D* is experiencing degradation even at 1280 we know it is lacking very far behind.
bruce said:
thats an instantaneous or average bitrate, NOT a resolution. And for the record an instantaneous or average doesnt mean a whole lot. What matters in a dynamic allocation of bandwidth is if the maximum allowed is more than the peak demand. If so the picture will be stable when the video demands the bandwidth.
I watched this fight on V* this weekend and saw NO flaws at 1440 or 1920 whichever it was but this is what the bandwidth starved 1280 feed of D* produced, obvious macroblocking even with very little movement!:
BFG said:
Considering the content is basically 24bit gif images at 30 frames per second with many frames nearly identical to those before and after it wouldn't take much to make the cartoons look good
Cool site though.
PQ is basically perceptive and subjective. My perception is that VOOM has the best PQ (and I've had them all D*, E*, SA*). I really can't tell any difference between the HD on VOOM and the HD on the locals. The SD channels does have some sparklies from the analog source, but has improved dramaticaly the past couple months. Most of the SD channels look better than a few of my SD locals. But as I said it is what you perceive and of course there are those that won't be satisfied with anything with lower resolution than their their own eye balls
Voom is doing something to improve PQ. I haven't watched Voom in about a month because it looked so bad but tonight I flipped through the 21 originals and was shocked! The Cinema10 channels were vastly improved and 3 movies were showing AR different from 16:9 (good thing). The picture was pleasantly sharp and vibrant. The only channels I saw that still sucked were EquatorHD (less skeeters but very soft), Gallery (skeeters and soft). I hope this is due to the Haramonic encoders, I could not believe the difference in PQ since I last tuned in Voom, I just may have to start watching it again.
Sounds to me like this has got to be some good news...whatever the reason! Don't recall hearing so many people I view as "experts" agree so completely in a long time. Vicki
Don't recall hearing so many people I view as "experts" agree so completely in a long time. Vicki
A very good article of cables practices of rate shaping etc. http://broadcastengineering.com/aps/acquisition/broadcasting_dtv_digital_cable/
Ive often thought that FOX must be doing something like that to reduce their maximum bitrate demand, hence the less detailed but stable picture.
Ive often thought that FOX must be doing something like that to reduce their maximum bitrate demand, hence the less detailed but stable picture.
- Nov 29, 2003
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vurbano said:
And I watched that fight also, it was the worse HBO has looked since I have had Comcast, there are a lot of posts at AVS that said it look bad on all providers, but since then ( and before ) it has been back to normal.
vurbano said:
What does this have to do with this thread, and why the post above putting down D* again, I thought it was called "Voom PQ", not "vurbano putting down Fox and DirecTV's PQ again.", this is not AVS here, I thought it was the Voom forum, if you question D* and F*'s PQ, maybe you should take it to the other forums so you don't polute threads here that have nothing to do with Voom.
bruce said:
More Bruce/boo missinformation. The fight on Voom looked fine, not as good as showtime but it never does look as good as showtime's boxing. Sorry. On D* however one poster suggested that D* should just broadcast 480p to eliminate the problems. Maybe you could direct me to the HBO looked like crap on V* posts? I missed those.http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=511789&highlight=hbo
bruce said:
Very funny, I suppose your comment about voom giving as much bandwidth to HBO as Directv does is ok then? Gimmie a break hypocrite. Or Neo asking about V* downrezzing like D* is out of line? Or BFG's response? I also suppose you were off topic talking about E* and your cable company.
The link to the article I gave will explain the possible source of your cable picture quality problems. Unless you want to just keep your head in the sand and blame HBO.
