VOOM Goes BOOM - update Dish Drops all 15 VOOM Channels

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Ok- You will very rarely if ever see me in other threads bashing someone elses favorite channels. I don't have the time for crap like that. For example I don't post comments in Comedy Central threads. I could care less about that channel but still I don't feel the need to make others angry.

But its OK to do so in another thread? So we can call Voom boring in a Comedy Central HD thread?

I don't "bash" Voom. I just point out the incredible errors of management that some of even the most ardent Voomers have come to realize were made. They had a great niche product. It's just that niche wasn't big enough. They could have saved themselves by taking up less space, bandwidth-wise and budget-wise, for Dish.

Also, I don't consider saying that you don't miss Voom a bash. One guy's must carry channel is another guy's waste of bandwidth. If the Voomers were left to their own devices, anyone reading this thread would think Voom was some kind if magic programming that sensed what we wanted and magically displayed it for us in HD, and that it was the only worthwhile HD ever to exist. We're just keeping it real, pointing out that Voom had problems, and that many Dish subs didn't care or even supported the decision to pull the plug.

For what its worth, you're welcome to come into any of my threads concerning Comedy Central HD, Spike HD, E! HD, and the like, to criticize my choices.
 
Wow, what a backhanded compliment. The sick thing is that you actual mean it, you are being sincere.

Dish has been stomped out by DirecTV, Uverse, FIOS, and others, so they are pretty down and out, but saying VOOM is the best thing that ever happened to Dish is a slap in the face.

Voom's days were over long ago. They shot themselves in the foot even moreso in 2007. Sure, they were good years ago, before other HD channels existed, but they died out at least by late 2007. Don't get me wrong, I loved Monsters HD before it turned for the worse, but what about the other dozen channels? They were crap as far back as I remember. Sure, there was the occasional good programming (even channels like Ovation have had their day in the sun), but they should have consolidated down to about three channels. 10-15 channels in today's environment of that stuff would be insane.

Good riddance to them for being so hard headed and not allowing Dish, or other carriers for that matter, to offer only five of the channels.
That's a very interesting take on the matter. I feel that both sides did their fair share to kill VOOM. The biggest stinker in its demise was the Affiliation Agreement:

- It locked EchoStar into paying an escallating premium price for a entire 15-channel VOOM HD lineup for 15 years, for each and every HD customer. Not a bad deal in May of 2005, but the contract quickly turned into an anchor when HD was no longer a premium service (2007), the HD subscriber-base had grown quite large, and VOOM (unliked the mass-marketing machine behind AMC, IFC and WE) showed no signs of breaking-up the 15 channel lineup nor offering Dish Network more favorable terms. In the long run, E* decided it was less expensive to terminate the contract and litigate this matter in the courts than it was to pay VOOM for the remaining 12+ years. It was a good business decision, but a horrible way to conduct business.

- The affiliation agreeement was so good (in VOOM's favor) they decided to maintain the status quo and keep the entire 15-channel lineup in tact (creating a pseudo exclusive contract) and not market the VOOM channels individually, or in smaller packages, on merit. Management at VOOM made a business decision to bleed E* for the next 12-years. Although it would cost VOOM in excess of $300 million during the first 3-years, the big payola was in receiving huge subscriber fees the next 12+ years from each and every Dish Network HD subscriber. Just like E*, it was a good business decision to keep VOOM in tact, but a horrible business model.

In my mind, both parties are culpable when it comes to killing VOOM...and we, the the customers, got screwed. But which party will prevail in the courtroom? Well, it's EchoStar if you believe press releases and court filings, and it is VOOM if you believe their press releases and court filings. Personally, I would pay extra to receive the VOOM channels, but I do not feel others should pay 1 cent toward VOOM programming. Of course, since I am an a la carte advocate, I also believe that I shouldn't be forced to subsidize 85% of the "cable favorites" I don't want in my channel lineup...just so I can watch a small handful of channels conveniently placed in the most expensive programming package.:rolleyes:

Anyway, wee shall see what Rainbow has is store for potential subscribers in early 2009, and we will see the courtroom fireworks starting in August 2009.;)

BTW, has anyone noticed now Dish Network has tanked after dumping VOOM back in May (reported back-to-back subscriber defections and increased churn)? Also, Rainbow has been taking a beating since the VOOM affiliation agreement was terminated (Greg Moyer recently left VOOM, and this was probably the 3rd wave of layoffs at VOOM). If Karma is any indicator, both parties will continue to suffer until this matter is resolved. As much as I enjoyed VOOM programming, it doesn't mean I am wearing blinders in this case.
 
For what its worth, you're welcome to come into any of my threads concerning Comedy Central HD, Spike HD, E! HD, and the like, to criticize my choices.

I'll pass. I don't spend my time discussing topics that I am not interested in. I'd rather spend my time talking about things I care about.
 
We're just keeping it real, pointing out that Voom had problems, and that many Dish subs didn't care or even supported the decision to pull the plug.
I agree. They could be 4 channels and I would be happy. With that said Voom isn't the only one with problems. Dish seems to have their share.

I only want one of them. Monsters HD. I'd gladly pay $5 a month for that channel.
 
For what its worth, you're welcome to come into any of my threads concerning Comedy Central HD, Spike HD, E! HD, and the like, to criticize my choices.
What point would this serve? What would be gained by someone telling you these channels are total crap, a complete waste of bandwidth, that no one has ever actually laughed at something on Comedy Central HD, and these channels show nothing meaningful or interesting or even mindly entertaining? Oh, and then repeat the same post over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again!
 
What point would this serve? What would be gained by someone telling you these channels are total crap, a complete waste of bandwidth, that no one has ever actually laughed at something on Comedy Central HD, and these channels show nothing meaningful or interesting or even mindly entertaining? Oh, and then repeat the same post over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again!

It stimulates discussion. And with no new HD from either provider, what else do we have to talk about?:) Plus there is the 1:1 Billion chance that Charlie will be swayed by one of my posts and make a programming decision based on what I think they should carry and not carry. No reason every Speed HD thread needs to be a racing lovefest, every Comedy Cetral HD thread needs to be a Stewart lovefest, etc.

My point is simple: Complain about people ripping on Voom if you want. But don't then criticize what other people would rather watch. Or, DON'T complain about people criticizing Voom, but feel free to discount the choices of others.

I just don't want to read "Stop making fun of Voom and its endless repeats" (to paraphrase) followed by a discussion of how many reapeats premium channels have, how other channels don't have as much HD, how other channels have commercials, how uncultured we are for wanting channels other than Gallery HD, etc. Pot. Kettle. Black. Defend Voom if you want, but no need to competely shield them from criticism.
 
Plus there is the 1:1 Billion chance that Charlie will be swayed by one of my posts and make a programming decision based on what I think they should carry and not carry.
Those are odds I can live with. With all the crap he's already added we don't need any more of what you think is good programming. :):):):p
 
It is so easy to get lost in this totally humongus thread that I cannot find if what I saw on the Rainbow web site has been mentioned.

People here are always talking about "15 channels". Remember we started with 10 in May 2005 then the next year 5 more were added. Also along the way some were changed but we ended with 15.

It seems that the original agreement between Voom and Dish was that Dish was supposed to carry all "21 Original Voom Channels" by the start of 2006. Dish never did do that. Why Dish would agree to something like that is beyond me but I found an old press release that came out 2 days before any Dish subscriber ever saw Voom in the first place. This probably is a good part of the problem.

It is also probably why starting in late 2006 we had so many repeats. Dish failed on their end to provide all 21 channels so Voom cut down on new programming. Probably just to annoy Dish. And so they did. But when Voom got the feeling that Dish was going to pull the plug, they got better again. April 2008 was a good month, remember? But it was too little too late as far as Dish was concerned.

Rainbow Media Holdings to Launch and Operate VOOM 21 HD Originals

That was the link. Here is part of what it says..

Rainbow Media Holdings to Launch and Operate VOOM 21 HD Originals

Signs Major Distribution Agreement with Echostar Communications Corporation

Greg Moyer and Nora Ryan Named Co-General Managers of VOOM 21 HD Originals

VOOM HD Originals will Appear on DISH Network

JERICHO, N.Y. April 29, 2005 - Rainbow Media Holdings LLC today announced that it will operate and launch the VOOM 21 HD Originals, an innovative suite of 21 high-definition channels, for distribution to cable operators and satellite TV providers. Rainbow also announced today that it has concluded its first major carriage agreement for the channels with EchoStar Communications Corporation, which will carry ten of the HD channels on its DISH Network, expanding to carry all 21 channels by 2006. The terms of the deal were not disclosed.

Funny how press releases are just a bunch of "hooray for us" kind of news as there is nothing bad in any of these releases like "Dish failed to carry all 21 Vooms" or even that "Voom went Boom on Dish".

I still miss Monsters & Rave. Others miss some of the other channels. Some others still don't miss those "niche" channels at all.

Speaking of "niche" channels, wouldn't Comedy Central be classified as one? How about CNN or The Weather Channel? Looking for your local weather forecast on Sci-Fi or WFN? It ain't gonna happen!

These channels gave us a place to go when we wanted something in particular. I for one will miss them very much and I still hold out hope certain ones will return somehow.
 
Those are odds I can live with. With all the crap he's already added we don't need any more of what you think is good programming. :):):):p

Considering E! HD, Spike HD, and IFC HD have yet to come to Dish, and I doubt we will see Comedy Central at launch, I think it's safe to say I do not have Charlie's ear. :) And for the record, while I do occasionally watch WFN, it was not my idea.

Speaking of "niche" channels, wouldn't Comedy Central be classified as one? How about CNN or The Weather Channel? Looking for your local weather forecast on Sci-Fi or WFN? It ain't gonna happen!

These channels gave us a place to go when we wanted something in particular. I for one will miss them very much and I still hold out hope certain ones will return somehow.

Well, yes they are. In fact, I'd say, with the exception of maybe TBS, TNT, and the Superstations, all cable nets are niche channels. The issue isn't their status as one. The issue is the size of that niche. Most of the Voom networks did not have a large enough niche to survice. Monsters and Rave did, but not much else.
 
Well, yes they are. In fact, I'd say, with the exception of maybe TBS, TNT, and the Superstations, all cable nets are niche channels. The issue isn't their status as one. The issue is the size of that niche. Most of the Voom networks did not have a large enough niche to survice. Monsters and Rave did, but not much else.
Why would there need to be a large interest in a channel to be on the air if there is the option of hundreds of choices? That is what satellite and cable is all about! Something for everyone!

If you want mainstream whatever, I am sure there is something for you OTA. You don't need Comedy Central to see SNL. Tune into (or DVR) NBC on Saturday Night.

I have no interest in UltraHD but I understand some would. (well I did stop to watch a few racy fashion shows a few times.. heh heh). Some like other things and I don't want to deprive them of it.

But I do understand that these channels cost everyone $$$ so as I stated earlier they should be premium channels. Even when Voom was Voom there were 2 teirs. Voom and Va-Va-Voom as I recall. A choice of packages (I know the providers don't like a-la-carte) should have been provided or the whole Voom package.

Someday there will be enough bandwidth available for everything you can think of. But right now, all I see is junk on the TV except for just a few things. The wife likes another few things. The kids like other few things.. etc. Everyone is doing their own thing these days. What 2008 family do you know of sits down together to watch "Marcus Welby, MD"? lol
 
Why would there need to be a large interest in a channel to be on the air if there is the option of hundreds of choices? That is what satellite and cable is all about! Something for everyone!

You hit it in your reply. First, there is not enough bandwidth for everything. Second, everything has to be in a cozy pack instead of a la carte. Most people don't want to pay tons for the lowest pack containing a bunch of small niche channels. Just put them in the higher pack? Then AT250 becomes AT350 and is at too high a price point for many despite their interest in said niche channels.

So, majority rules. Use limited bandwidth to supply what most want. Make your packages have the most broadly appealing content as you can.

Actually, a la carte might be the death of many niche channels. Without the large base forced to subscribe, I could see networks like Food and Planet Green dying.

And Comedy Central has Stewart and Colbert. Yes, they are on Hulu. But I'd like the seamless integration of watching them straight from my 622.
 
Ok- You will very rarely if ever see me in other threads bashing someone elses favorite channels. I don't have the time for crap like that. For example I don't post comments in Comedy Central threads. I could care less about that channel but still I don't feel the need to make others angry.


good point. a point that's been made in the past but for some i guess it's hard to understand that if the topic of a thread is not of interests to you then move on.no one is obligated to read a specific thread.
 
Excellent Point! Personally, I really don't like anything related to Star Trek or Star Wars, but I certainly don't go out of my to incite others who may actually enjoy this stuff...that's how wars are started. Anyway, I noticed a Star Trek cast member recently passed-away. Perhaps some of the VOOM-haters also hate Star Trek and would like to voice their pleasure at her passing.:no

But yet you complain about the voom take down when you didn't even sub to it when Dish dumped 10 dead weight channels then voom pull the other 5.
 
Excellent Point! Personally, I really don't like anything related to Star Trek or Star Wars, but I certainly don't go out of my to incite others who may actually enjoy this stuff...that's how wars are started. Anyway, I noticed a Star Trek cast member recently passed-away. Perhaps some of the VOOM-haters also hate Star Trek and would like to voice their pleasure at her passing.:no

I'm sorry but finding pleasure over someones passing especially over television is disgusting. No offense riff but poor choice of words there.
 
I am starting to think riffjim either works,worked or owns stock in voom. His love for voom wasn't enough to keep him as a sub but yet he just can't let it go.
 
I am starting to think riffjim either works,worked or owns stock in voom. His love for voom wasn't enough to keep him as a sub but yet he just can't let it go.



well i personally don't know riff so i have nothing bad to say about him nor do I have anything against him but mixing a topic about TV with a person's death is not tasteful. even though he probably just used it as an example it's not in good taste. this actress died of cancer just like her husband did (gene roddenberry).even though I'm not really a startrek fan I do know who these people are. At the end it's just television and nothing to get so worked up about. :)
 
I'm sorry but finding pleasure over someones passing especially over television is disgusting. No offense riff but poor choice of words there.

I agree, riff is a stand up poster from what I have read in the past, but perhaps there was a better way to make this point . :up
 
But yet you complain about the voom take down when you didn't even sub to it when Dish dumped 10 dead weight channels then voom pull the other 5.

I am starting to think riffjim either works,worked or owns stock in voom. His love for voom wasn't enough to keep him as a sub but yet he just can't let it go.

Let us have a moment of silence to HONOR Spatch's valuable contributions to this discussion... :D lol...

may I ask, pray tell, what is your point? You know, there are people attempting to have a sensible discussion here... ;)
 
Ok- You will very rarely if ever see me in other threads bashing someone elses favorite channels. I don't have the time for crap like that. For example I don't post comments in Comedy Central threads. I could care less about that channel but still I don't feel the need to make others angry.

Voom-haters aren't posting their stupidity to make anyone angry. These antagonists sincerely believe they are shedding light here. They firmly believe what they say and will make sure they say it until any trace of Voom-love is eradicated from the planet. Because that love represents a lie in their opinion, so they seek to extinguish that lie. Unfortunately, acts like that historically have usually lead to even more lies and attrocities instead.

Its ironic, the Voom-haters will troll threads, hijack conversations, and attempt to disrupt any peaceful or optimistic conversation regarding Voom, and hide behind 'their right to an opinion' in doing so...

...yet go into certain forums and proclaim an opinion that states that a 'certain exclusive sports package that costs triple digits' is a complete waste of money for only 16 sundays of monotonous programming, and WOW!!! YOU WILL BE FLAMED TO HIGH HEAVEN! :D :D :D And of course, thats as valid an opinion as any, go figure ...:confused:

In the larger scheme of things, there is no direct correlation between the merits of any given product and its popularity, yet in spite of being a well documented fallacy, many folks continue to use the 'bandwagon argument' to support their claims. Even though the sheer lack of logic negates their point every time...
 
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CONGRATS ECHOSTAR! 922 wins best of CES award!

Just wanted to say THANKS.

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