VIP 222K and External Hard Drive

[moonwink]

On Saturday, as I was getting to the point of cancelling my Dish acct after 16 years, the so called "Loyalty Department" promised a ViP222k installed with HD for life and EHD enabled at no charge but I had to have a technician install the receiver. I relented and allowed them to schedule an appt for this morning (between 8am and 11:30) - yea right. The installer finally showed up at 1:30pm. We removed a ViP211 I had authorized while talking to the Loyalty Dept on Saturday (it replaced a 522 I had been using) and setup up the ViP222k. I had upgraded the antenna HD with a used dish from Craig's List a few days earlier (I had the installer leave me a new HD dish anyway). I was two hours late getting away afterwards. Later tonight, I began working with the receiver and discovered that despite what the Loyalty Dept had told me, the Vip222k still cannot accept an EHD. It was close to midnight when I called Dish support and was transferred to "Advance Technical Support". I asked them whether or not the ViP222k could be used as a DVR with an EHD and was told YES, it could be - a few minutes later came the news that NO, it couldn't. I asked for a box to send the ViP222k back because I had been misled by the Loyalty Dept with their lack of knowledge about the product and then swapped my ViP211 back on my antenna and TV. There was another issue with the $40 fee to use the EHD with the ViP211 which the Loyalty Dept had be promised comp me - it was appearing on my updated bill. Advanced Tech Support switched me to someone in the billing department after midnight and explaining how I got to the point I was at that point, reluctantly agreed to remove that charge from my bill.

The bottom line is - don't believe anyone at Dish Network that tells you a EHD can be used with a ViP222k receiver. It can't. I was told by the fellow in the billing department that the only receiver Dish sells that an EHD can be added to avoid DVR fees was the ViP211k.

My goal was to once again have a receiver that didn't incur DVR fees. My old 501 is still sitting in my garage after the charge for a additional receivers went from $5 to $7/month. I was using a 721 dual tuner SD DVR receiver at the time. Soon afterward, Dish turned off the signal for that 721 receiver and comp'd me the 522 and it's DVR fee until the end of August - September's bill included the $7 DVR fee. That's what pushed me into calling to cancel my service and the fiasco that ended with the ViP222k being disconnected and shipped back began. I bought the ViP211 off Craig's List for $30 and will use it going forward. Dish can keep the ViP222k and it's inability to use an EHD - my bill will remain $64.99/month plus tax for America's Top 200 (with no DVR fee until at least next February).

 

[TheKrell]

I believe the 411/211/211k, and the newest incarnation of that series whose model number escapes me at the moment, all can make the DVR Conversion.

 

[moonwink]

I believe the 411/211/211k, and the newest incarnation of that series whose model number escapes me at the moment, all can make the DVR Conversion.

As far as I can tell, the 411 is the same receiver as the 211 but lacks an Ethernet port. The 211k is in a slightly smaller case but seems to have the same features as the 211. The user manual is common to all of them. Can you tell me if there's some difference in the remotes?
What I was looking for was a dual HD tuner receiver that would accept a EHD and not incur monthly DVR fees. Is there anything like that available from Dish today? I know this series of receivers can tune OTA while recording to the EHD from the dish but my OTA is very problematic and unreliable so I haven't connected it. I like the single mode setting so I can get PIP and watch the ball game while watching and hearing the news like I was doing on Dish's SD 522 receiver I'm returning to them.

 

[DishSubLA]

NO, there is no two or more tuner DVR capable of receiving NON-OTA channels available from ANY MVPD, and there won't be, as this seems a good source of revenue for the MVPD's, and why would any MVPD be the ONLY one NOT to charge some sort of DVR fee when all the competition charges DVR fees. I'm with you in that I despise these "fees," but I'm giving you the reality and why we will NEVER see a no-fee DVR capable of receiving non-OTA channels, at least from the corporate point of view.

The only NO monthly fee DVR's in existence can receive ONLY OTA and are no longer in production. You can search ebay for some of the old Echostar DVR's that were 2 tuner and no monthly fee, but OTA ONLY, of course. Also, some of these DVR's were later branded as Channel Master, but both are VERY rudimentary (based on the Echostar [Dish] 50X technology that have no name based recordings. These DVR's were beloved by those who had them because they had no monthly fees.

The subsequent Channel Master DVR (no longer in production) designed by a different company offered very limited EPG capability for no monthly fee, but offered full capability for an additional ANNUAL fee: the death of the "no fee DVR" from what had been the only one offering such a best.

Channel Master is, once again, working with Echostar on a forthcoming DVR that will be OTA ONLY, again and of course. The only other thing we know about this new beast is that Echostar has asked the FCC for a waiver from having to have an ANALOG tuner, and considering TiVo was granted such a waiver, Echostar is sure to get one, too. We don't know what tech Echostar plans to use in this new DVR. That last one was 50X technology (inadequate, I think), but maybe Echostar will use the ViP platform it used for Dish. That would be great because that would put it on par with TiVo. However, we don't know if Channel Master will charge some fee or not. Keep in mind, Channel Master has to pay licensing fees to Echostar in some form. In the past, the DVR's were VERY expensive. Channel Master may go the less expensive up-front cost, but with some kind of fee, but LESS than TiVo, we would hope. We really don't know, so we'll have to wait and see when this new product is launched. Keep eye on sites like Zatz as he is always following all DVR developments from all companies.

The only currently manufactured "DVR" solution with no monthly fee is one you may find inadequate: a DVD recorder with an internal HDD. However, it really does have DVR functionality. However, no guide data with which to set recordings. Manual timers only for all recordings, just like the old VCR's. You would connect your TV box/receiver to the DVD recorder with internal HDD for recording and playback. Such a machine is offered by Magnavox. However, it can only record ONE channel/input/stream at a time and ONLY SD, NOT HD. However, recording to the internal HDD, you do get all trick-play: chasing playback as recording, pause, REW or FFWD during recording and playback, etc. And you can transfer that recording to a DVD. That's about it for no fee DVR, sad to say.

Your 721 (I had one too; it had a GREAT UI, but I upgraded to the 522 and 625) was retired because of the TiVo lawsuit. I do PERSONALLY believe they should have grandfathered you at the 50X rate for life or until you UPGRADE to new DVR tech. After all, it's not your fault they're being sued. But then again, we could always take our business to Dish's competition if we don't like the way Dish does business.

As for the 722K having been touted to have DVR capability using an external HDD, and Dish just letting such a promise die a long death, it has since, over the years, come to some degree of consensus that since the 722K would have to have FOUR streams of HD (2 Sat and 2 OTA) and 2 additional streams for ouput (one HD; the other SD), and one high-speed transfer in progress or playback from the 2nd external HDD, it really is the USB 2.0 brick wall Echostar hit. USB 2.0 just doesn't have the bandwidth. I believe the chip on the 722K is supposed to handle 12 streams, probably SD 12 SD streams. Every other DVR achieves such high-bandwidth mufti-streaming using the far more accommodating SATA with an eSATA port for external HDD. Dish had th ONLY DVR's NOT to have eSATA ports YEARS after ALL others put them on their DVR's. USB was/is ubiquitous and CHEAP then, just what Charlie likes it. Further, you will notice that the Hopper has an eSATA port, but not yet a functional one. We don't know Dish's plans for the port, if any, but recording/DVR functions to an external HDD could EASILY handle all the demands and streams of the Hopper with no hiccups
Sorry, but all companies LOVE those FEES for life. I hear you, but not the DVR makers nor MVPD's.

 

[DishSubLA]

I forgot to add that Bright (I think that was the brand) also offered a ONE tuner DVR for OTA ONLY, of course, for no monthly fee, but the UI was awful and beyond rudimentary. I also just remembered an ATSC converter box that can also function as a DVR (OTA ONLY, again) using an external HDD or USB flash drive, I believe. It is by HomeWorx, if I remember correctly. However, very poor UI. The EPG was really bad to look at, and somewhat cumbersome way to engage recording of live TV, but you could program timers just as you would the old VCR's, no find it in the EPG and click to create timers like the Echostar and Channel Masters. However, no monthly fee and the box costs ONLY $60. Yes sixty dollars! They are still available for purchase today. Personally, I would buy the HomeWorx before the very expensive Channel Master DVR's or certainly the Bright DVR's because those DVR's were so RUDIMENTARY, although the Bright was much less expensive than the over $300 close to $400 price of the Channel Masters. Again, we'll have to see what Echostar designs for the new Channel Master DVR, but it will be OTA ONLY, but with some OTT (on-line streaming services).

 

[moonwink]

I've got two Dish Pal ATSC OTA boxes sitting here now. Neither one has many hours on it - however, neither one can find any channels anymore. Their problems are slightly different but the bottom line is they're no longer useable. Have you heard of anyone repairing these units or should I just pull the hard drives and pitch the rest like I ended up doing with my 721 (I still miss that thing! Why couldn't they rewritten the software?).

I'm still getting to know my 211 and connected it up to my OTA antenna earlier to let it scan for channels. I'm getting the guide information on many it found and think it's wonderful to be able to watch local TV while recording my favorite evening satellite signals - something I either hadn't thought about or didn't know before reading this thread - thanks to all who contributed!

I worked Dish for "free HD for life" and managed to get the $40 EHD fee waived when I talked to them just before my cancellation was to take effect with the end of August. I had hoped the 222 was cut from the same mold as the 211 with the added feature of 2 satellite tuners and was told that was the case by a couple of misinformed Dish employees I've spoken to since Saturday. Sadly, that is not the case - they should have given it a different model number.

The EHD is working great on this old 211 (I bought it off Craig's list for $30 and the case it looks like it rode around in the truck for some time). I can record from the OTA antenna or satellite antenna. Two bad it can't do the PIP. So by giving Dish back their 522 I was using in "Single Mode", I lost PIP and recording to satellite programs a once but I gained HD and still get DVR for free. I guess it was about time although I haven't swapped out all my TVs yet. I've still got a 4:3 in the bedroom and one on the motorhome. I picked up my antennas used off Craig's list also. One for the house and one for the motorhome I'll use on a tripod (I fixed the LNB arm so it folds-up while traveling). I can live with this set-up. I've got the "Top 200 package" and I've been promised my monthly bill will be $64.99 (at least till the annual prices hikes in February) plus taxes.

I've also got a 501 I took out of service when the extra box fees went from $5 to $7/month and might be able to come up with a DishPlayer if I root around some. If anyone is interested in those broken DishPals or old 501, send me a PM - it's time I got rid of this stuff.

 

[Tyralak]

The Ethernet port on your 222 is almost as useless as the USB port. Does anybody know if they allow the WiFi dongle on the 222? Now that would be an example of one useless port being used to take the place of another.

Yep. It works just fine.

 

[Jim5506]

Dish will not enable the EHD on the ViP222 because it essentially makes it a ViP722 and those who are in the know would opt for the 222 and save $10-11 per month for the DVR fee and the extra receiver fee difference between the 222 and 722.

 

[moonwink]

I'm amazed at the ability of the ATSC tuner in the ViP211 to bring in the OTA channels and guide! Compared to the many ATSC adapters I've tried, I'll give it the highest marks.

I forgot to mention the other shortcoming I had to overcome with the switch and that's the lack of a UHF remote for the 211. I'll overcome that with a "Next Generation Remote Control Extender". Has anyone tried the Dish Remote extender? I was told Dish no longer sells it themselves but there's bunch of them available eleswhere right now. I'll be able to control the 211 from the bedroom of either the house or the motorhome with it.

One question for you "old pros" with HD - when setting up my favorites, do I need to select both the SD and HD listing for each channel that's got them listed separately?

One difference I'm noticing when using the DVR - the jump back seems to go back much farther than I'm used to. It takes two jumps forward to get back to the live signal. With my other Dish DVRs, a jump back was 10 seconds and jump forward was 30 seconds. Can anyone tell me the timings for this 211?

Overall, I'm very pleased with the switch from the 522 to the 211 (I own) but very disappointed with the knowledge level displayed by the Dish agents I've spoken to. I would expect them to be better versed in their receivers' capabilities. I'm extremely disappointed that I had to wait 2 hours past the service window Dish promised to have their handpicked technician to arrive at my house (there's no way to work with a local Dish dealer you've got a relationship with). He also thought the EHD would work on the 222k and had the agent on the phone "authorize" that feature on the 222k and she added the $40 EDH fee to my bill. I had pleaded with Dish's Retention agent to just send me the receiver and let me do the install but neither he nor his supervisor would relent. I've never had a good experience with house calls and will do anything to avoid them. Now it looks like Dish is sending out 3 boxes for the two receivers (the 522 I had been using and the 222k I tried for a few hours Tuesday). I guess I'll have to call them again and try to explain they sent an extra box in error - I also hate working through the interactive voice response labyrinth to get to an agent while being forced to listen to ads for pay per view - in between hear how important my call is to them and how they strive to provide "world class" service.

 

[navychop]

I've got two Dish Pal ATSC OTA boxes sitting here now. Neither one has many hours on it - however, neither one can find any channels anymore. Their problems are slightly different but the bottom line is they're no longer useable. Have you heard of anyone repairing these units or should I just pull the hard drives and pitch the rest like I ended up doing with my 721 ......... If anyone is interested in those broken DishPals ...... send me a PM - it's time I got rid of this stuff.

I assume you mean the DTVPal DVR, since you mention hard drives. Go here to find your answers about repairs. There are ways of fixing them sometimes. And if you're giving them away, P Smith (AKA Dr. FixMyPal) at that site would love to get a PM from you.

Let us know if you have any success in repair or if you ship them off.

 

[moonwink]

Thanks Navychop, Yes, they are the DishPal DVR OTA ATSC receivers. I contacted P Smith who says he'll be "out of the country for months" and let me know when he returns. I'll send the receivers to him to see if he can figure out what's wrong with them - although he mentioned trying unsuccessfully to fix one (his own) with similar problems.

I'll post here when something happens with them.

Don/Moonwink

 

[navychop]

Good. Thank you.

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