Video - Echostar Tr50 Atsc Dvr

[kcsdad]

Keep in mind that OTA guide data can be obtained from "TV Guide On Screen" service, the same service that's built into many TVs, DVD Recorders, and Cable Tuner boxes. I not sure technically how the data is broadcast, but it must be OTA somehow. Also, ATSC broadcasts programming data along with the program. So between the two services you should be able to build a nice, free OTA on screen guide I would think.

I'm sure there would be licensing fees involved in the hardware aspect, but there would be no monthly fees for the TV Guide service.

 

[Bradtothebone]

Do we know for sure that the TR-50 has 2 ATSC tuners? The card says something like "ATSC/NTSC Tuners." Does that mean one of each?

Brad

 

[ciwsguy]

This looks like Charlie's revenge for the Tivo lawsuits. Dual tuner OTA DVR with VOD over broadband with no subscription would be killer. No need for cable or satellite if you can live without the extra channels. Would be great for extra TVs in the house instead of additional DVRs at 12 bucks a month each too.

As they say in the Navy, BRAVO ZULU! I hope Charlie cleans Tivo's clocks with the TR-50. I'll buy one!

 

[Tyralak]

As they say in the Navy, BRAVO ZULU! I hope Charlie cleans Tivo's clocks with the TR-50. I'll buy one!

If it's cable compatible, and no fee, that will really deliver a smackdown to Tivo.

 

[Greg Bimson]

And if the TR-50 has the same functionality as the other Echostar DVR's, TiVo will end up having that receiver added to the list of those that infringe upon TiVo's patents.

Besides, until that patent infringement suit is over, I have a feeling TiVo will try to weasel its way into forcing the TR-50 to have a monthly fee as part of the settlement agreement, especially if TiVo feels the TR-50 infringes.

 

[mike123abc]

I bet they (echostar) worked very hard to be sure it does not infringe on TiVo patents.

 

[Tyralak]

I bet they (echostar) worked very hard to be sure it does not infringe on TiVo patents.

Exactly. Especially since the 622 and 722 are use an entirely different technology, it's different enough that the lawyers for Tivo can't even find a weasely way to pretend that Dish is "infringing" on their patents. I can't imagine Dish would go back to the old software that supposedly infringes on Tivo's patents.

 

[Greg Bimson]

So let's try to get this ball rolling...

I bet they (echostar) worked very hard to be sure it does not infringe on TiVo patents.

How so?

Exactly. Especially since the 622 and 722 are use an entirely different technology, it's different enough that the lawyers for Tivo can't even find a weasely way to pretend that Dish is "infringing" on their patents.

So, three points...

1) The 622 was released less than two months prior to the start of the TiVo v. Echostar trial. Therefore, it is conceivable that there wasn't enough information for TiVo to ask that the receiver be included in the lawsuit.
2) From Scott Greczkowski's initial preview of this receiver, it is stated, "[The VIP622] will be like the 942 with Single and Dual Modes. Most of the other specs match the 942 almost exactly." So what technology is there in the 622 that is so different?
3)The current injunction, stayed upon appeal, would, "prevent EchoStar Communications Corp. (NASDAQISH, "ECC") from making, using, offering for sale or selling in the United States their DVR products at issue in the case (DP-501, DP-508, DP-510, DP-721, DP-921, DP-522, DP-625, DP-942, and all EchoStar DVRs that are not more than colorably different from any of these products." If the 622 isn't so different from the 942, as Scott pointed out, then it is entirely possible the 622 and 722 are also infringing on the patent.

I can't imagine Dish would go back to the old software that supposedly infringes on Tivo's patents.

Software? The Time Warp patent is for a software and hardware implementation. And it is not known if the 622 software does not infringe.

Which leads me to ask, since the TR-50 looks to be a stripped-down version of a 622/722, could it possibly be infringing as well?

What I am figuring is that if TiVo has a favorable outcome at the Court of Appeals, all Echostar DVR products will be game for TiVo Time Warp licensing. The alternative is to shut off only the infringing DVR's (customer loss) or modify all the software to work around the hardware as well (could cause massive malfunctions), and that would cause a lot of churn.

 

[ewhite]

TR50 Question

Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen anywhere if the TR50 is an HDTV DVR or just SD, like most of the DVD recorders with digital tuners.

 

[mike123abc]

So let's try to get this ball rolling...How so?So, three points...

1) The 622 was released less than two months prior to the start of the TiVo v. Echostar trial. Therefore, it is conceivable that there wasn't enough information for TiVo to ask that the receiver be included in the lawsuit.
2) From Scott Greczkowski's initial preview of this receiver, it is stated, "[The VIP622] will be like the 942 with Single and Dual Modes. Most of the other specs match the 942 almost exactly." So what technology is there in the 622 that is so different?
3)The current injunction, stayed upon appeal, would, "prevent EchoStar Communications Corp. (NASDAQISH, "ECC") from making, using, offering for sale or selling in the United States their DVR products at issue in the case (DP-501, DP-508, DP-510, DP-721, DP-921, DP-522, DP-625, DP-942, and all EchoStar DVRs that are not more than colorably different from any of these products." If the 622 isn't so different from the 942, as Scott pointed out, then it is entirely possible the 622 and 722 are also infringing on the patent.Software? The Time Warp patent is for a software and hardware implementation. And it is not known if the 622 software does not infringe.

Which leads me to ask, since the TR-50 looks to be a stripped-down version of a 622/722, could it possibly be infringing as well?

What I am figuring is that if TiVo has a favorable outcome at the Court of Appeals, all Echostar DVR products will be game for TiVo Time Warp licensing. The alternative is to shut off only the infringing DVR's (customer loss) or modify all the software to work around the hardware as well (could cause massive malfunctions), and that would cause a lot of churn.

The main difference on the 622 was that it used a broadcom chipset that implemented the DVR functionality, trick play, etc. So, it is unclear if that is enough of a difference or not. Broadcom could be Tivo's next target for all we know.

 

[Greg Bimson]

Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen anywhere if the TR50 is an HDTV DVR or just SD, like most of the DVD recorders with digital tuners.

It has ATSC tuners, so it is going to record HD from the source.

The main difference on the 622 was that it used a broadcom chipset that implemented the DVR functionality, trick play, etc. So, it is unclear if that is enough of a difference or not. Broadcom could be Tivo's next target for all we know.

Understood. Then again, all of Dish Network's DVR's employed a Broadcom chipset, so we know that doesn't necessarily help matters any.

 

[Tyralak]

It has ATSC tuners, so it is going to record HD from the source.Understood. Then again, all of Dish Network's DVR's employed a Broadcom chipset, so we know that doesn't necessarily help matters any.

Just the 622/722. The ones before were using a different type.

 

[Tyralak]

The main difference on the 622 was that it used a broadcom chipset that implemented the DVR functionality, trick play, etc. So, it is unclear if that is enough of a difference or not. Broadcom could be Tivo's next target for all we know.

It's doubtful. What a lot of people aren't realizing is that Tivo doesn't have a broad patent over the concept of DVRs, and any DVR is by default infringing on their patents. (Patents don't work that way anyway) ReplayTV Invented the DVR, and had theirs to market just before Tivo. They both sued each other over patent infringement, and it was a draw. Broadcom is using different technology than Tivo. This may be why DirecTV just bought ReplayTV. They can use their DVR patents and make DVRs without having to pay Tivo, thus cutting them out of the loop. And not having to worry about the Tivo extortion machine.

 

[Greg Bimson]

...all of Dish Network's DVR's employed a Broadcom chipset, so we know that doesn't necessarily help matters any.

Just the 622/722. The ones before were using a different type.

What a lot of people aren't realizing is that Tivo doesn't have a broad patent over the concept of DVRs, and any DVR is by default infringing on their patents.

Also understood.

A key component of the "Time Warp" patent is what is termed the Barton Media Switch. It is basically the Broadcom chip. Now, if Broadcom did something different to the chip for the 622, fine. That only means it may not infringe. However, it is quite likely Echostar continues the same functionality that the prior Broadcom chips had, and is also being used in the manner as defined by the Time Warp Patent. At that point, of course it is infringing. We don't know yet.

ReplayTV Invented the DVR, and had theirs to market just before Tivo. They both sued each other over patent infringement, and it was a draw. Broadcom is using different technology than Tivo. This may be why DirecTV just bought ReplayTV. They can use their DVR patents and make DVRs without having to pay Tivo, thus cutting them out of the loop. And not having to worry about the Tivo extortion machine.

We are unsure if Broadcom is using different technology than TiVo. Heck, all TiVo's have a Broadcom chip in them, so that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Yes, TiVo and ReplayTV sued each other in different courts, then respectively decided not to sue each other. Supposedly, TiVo sued over the Time Warp function, while ReplayTV sued over basic trick play functions. They agreed simply not to sue each other, as they really wanted to get the DVR market to grow. However, four months after the agreement, ReplayTV stopped making DVR's.

That is probably what drove DirecTV to purchase the ReplayTV intellectual property (IP). Once the agreement with TiVo is over, having access to the ReplayTV patents makes it virtually impossible for TiVo to sue, because DirecTV may sue TiVo for use of the trick-play patents.

 

[Parakiller]

Any price announced yet?

 

[dodge]

Ok
I want mine now!!! Cant wait!!!
When availible???
Where???
How Much??????

 

[navychop]

No longer available on utube.

 

[Peter Parker]

Do we know for sure that the TR-50 has 2 ATSC tuners? The card says something like "ATSC/NTSC Tuners." Does that mean one of each?

Brad

That NTSC tuner will be of limited use in 368 days.

 

[Derwin0]

That NTSC tuner will be of limited use in 368 days.

It'll make a great DVR for someone on basic/expanded cable.

 

[Peter Parker]

It'll make a great DVR for someone on basic/expanded cable.

If it does have an analog tuner (not sure) it would ahve to have one that tunes in cable frequencies which are not the same as OTA. Does anyone know for sure what it has?