VHF and UHF HD signal troubles ... again

[splat10]

Ok here's my stats for antennaweb:
50 northwoods rd
wilton, ny 12831

if you click around on the map you get hugely varying results and i'm guessing i'm in one of the areas that is more blue.

All my channels are on the same hill about 40 miles away. I currently have a 80" radio shack combo that worked great in my last house 15 miles away. Now i'm getting the VHF (7 and 12) good (80-95% depending on my aiming) and the uhf servicable (63-70%) with the exception of one channel (CBS, 39). If i tweak the antenna's aim just a little my UHF is affected, but i can change out the CBS channel for ABC (26). It's going in the attic so a rotor isnt an option (and i don't want to deal with it).

I've seen posts on UHF onlys that can pick up the high VHF. Is 7 high? Right now the antenna is in an unused 2nd floor bedroom until i can get in the attic.

1) can i use the antenna now for VHF and combine it with a UHF or will the UHF side screw things up?
2) some of the UHF are going back to VHF when analog goes dark (specifically the one i'm having trouble with).

Would the larger RS 160" combo do it? or can i spend less money somehow else? I need my CBS for football

Edit: oh and i don't have a pre-amp. suggest that first? I do have a radio shack amplified 4 way spitter but i don't think that's the same right?

TIA
Steve

 

[toto]

Ok here's my stats for antennaweb:
50 northwoods rd
wilton, ny 12831

if you click around on the map you get hugely varying results and i'm guessing i'm in one of the areas that is more blue.

All my channels are on the same hill about 40 miles away. I currently have a 80" radio shack combo that worked great in my last house 15 miles away. Now i'm getting the VHF (7 and 12) good (80-95% depending on my aiming) and the uhf servicable (63-70%) with the exception of one channel (CBS, 39). If i tweak the antenna's aim just a little my UHF is affected, but i can change out the CBS channel for ABC (26). It's going in the attic so a rotor isnt an option (and i don't want to deal with it).

I've seen posts on UHF onlys that can pick up the high VHF. Is 7 high? Right now the antenna is in an unused 2nd floor bedroom until i can get in the attic.

1) can i use the antenna now for VHF and combine it with a UHF or will the UHF side screw things up?
2) some of the UHF are going back to VHF when analog goes dark (specifically the one i'm having trouble with).

Would the larger RS 160" combo do it? or can i spend less money somehow else? I need my CBS for football

Edit: oh and i don't have a pre-amp. suggest that first? I do have a radio shack amplified 4 way spitter but i don't think that's the same right?

TIA
Steve

From your descrition and anntenna webs color code, it doesn't appear that you need much more than a rabbit ears to pickup your assigned stations 26 or 39. Is the long horizontal bar pointed away from the staions and the small ugly part pointed towart them? Have you used a compass in pointing toward those station signals? Is channel 39 broadcasting at full power?

 

[splat10]

From your descrition and anntenna webs color code, it doesn't appear that you need much more than a rabbit ears to pickup your assigned stations 26 or 39. Is the long horizontal bar pointed away from the staions and the small ugly part pointed towart them? Have you used a compass in pointing toward those station signals? Is channel 39 broadcasting at full power?

yes yes yes yes

I'm in a blue area i believe. I am mostly concerned about the best way to otimize my system without a lot of $. I'm sure i could go out and buy a UHF only antenna and unhook? the UHF side of my combo, but maybe i just need an amp? I know i sould be getting all the uhf where i'm at so i'm guessing my antenna is not rated for 40 miles

 

[Tower Guy]

Ok here's my stats for antennaweb:
50 northwoods rd
wilton, ny 12831

TIA Steve

Is the attic one floor higher than the bedroom? If so, the extra height may be all that you need.

All the DTV stations in Albany are at full power. Yet, WRGB did seem weaker during the wind storms on Sunday.

If you would like to try a preamp, I'd suggest the Winegard HDP-269.

 

[Jim5506]

Well, when I put your address in I get 4 yellow digitals, two green, one red and one violet.

Nearly all your stations are at 214 degrees (South west) so no rotator is needed others are duplicate networks anyway. It is always better to have the best antenna and not need an amplifier.

Your current antenna would probably work great outside instead of in the attic (attic installs typically cut your signal in half).

If you must buy another antenna, get a Channel Master 36XX series or a Winegard - better quality, more gain than Radio Shack.

 

[splat10]

Well, when I put your address in I get 4 yellow digitals, two green, one red and one violet.

Nearly all your stations are at 214 degrees (South west) so no rotator is needed others are duplicate networks anyway. It is always better to have the best antenna and not need an amplifier.

Your current antenna would probably work great outside instead of in the attic (attic installs typically cut your signal in half).

If you must buy another antenna, get a Channel Master 36XX series or a Winegard - better quality, more gain than Radio Shack.

thanks, the fun part is if you click about 100 yds away from that address (it's not my real address as my address isn't recognized yet) to the NW it drops to all blue

will a vhf 7 and 12 be picked up by a good UHF only? My RS picks up the VHF well but not so good on UHF.

The really weird part is that 39 or 26 will come in but not both. If it turn the antenna no more than 5 degrees. But they're supposedly on the same tower (or hill)

so obviously i'm in a small deadspot. Are the combo vhf/uhf antennas as capable as combining a purposed UHF and my current VHF/UHF?

 

[Jim5506]

UHF antenna will pick up 7 and 12 poorly if at all. If 7 is strong a Channel Master 4228 would probably work for you, the only problem with an attic install is it is about four feet tall and four feet wide, so space might be a problem. The 4228 is fair on high UHF reception if you tie the two reflectors together electrically. Look here under "Using UHF antenna for VHF" http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

 

[Tower Guy]

UHF antenna will pick up 7 and 12 poorly if at all. If 7 is strong a Channel Master 4228 would probably work for you, the only problem with an attic install is it is about four feet tall and four feet wide, so space might be a problem. The 4228 is fair on high UHF reception if you tie the two reflectors together electrically. Look here under "Using UHF antenna for VHF" http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

4228's are a poor choice for this area. There is a null on channels 7 and 12.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

The locations where they do work typically have a channel 10 or 13.

Your existing antenna is not as good as this, but note the gain and patterns.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/cm3018.html

You would need about 3 db more antenna gain to notice any improvement, but such an antenna won't be easy to fit in the attic. A preamp that overcomes the line losses would make up 3-6 db; that might be enough of a boost.

Best advice; get the antenna that you already have a bit higher and in the clear - your problems will be gone.

 

[splat10]

Tower guy thanks. You local to albany?

I have noted that i can get a good signal on all channels but just not at the same time, which is perplexing to me seing that they all come off the same tower??? Maybe my antenna is skewed for the 26 and 39 frequencies? Just odd. It's still in a second floor bedroom for now as out attic access is sealed and i have to get the contractor to fix it so i don't void our warrantee. So i'm guessing insulation, house wrap, and siding my be worse than the attic and '3rd' floor.

Can i somehow diplex this combo antenna with a UHF ant and not have multipath problems?

 

[Tower Guy]

Tower guy thanks. You local to albany?

I have noted that i can get a good signal on all channels but just not at the same time, which is perplexing to me seing that they all come off the same tower??? Maybe my antenna is skewed for the 26 and 39 frequencies? Just odd. It's still in a second floor bedroom for now as out attic access is sealed and i have to get the contractor to fix it so i don't void our warrantee. So i'm guessing insulation, house wrap, and siding my be worse than the attic and '3rd' floor.

Can i somehow diplex this combo antenna with a UHF ant and not have multipath problems?

Yes, I'm in Altamont, about 9 miles from the TV towers, which I can easily see from my dining room window.

It's odd that the signals require that the antenna be aimed differently for the two channels. Your antenna is obviously doing something weird. Both WRGB-DT and WTEN-DT are using the same transmit antenna.

http://albanyhdtv.homestead.com/tower.html

I have a Channel Master 4228 on a 125' tower. I can not use a preamp as it is overloaded by the Albany stations. In addition to the local digital channels I can get WKTV-DT in Utica, and WVER-DT in Rutland, VT.

I have been unable to get more of the other regional DTV channels, even though I can see many analog signals such as WVIT & WFSB, Hartford, CT; WUTR, Utica, NY, WNNE, White River Junction, VT; WUNI, Worcester, MA; WTNH, New Haven, CT and a slew of LPTV stations from Utica to Glens Falls.

 

[vikingrob]

Ok here's my stats for antennaweb:
50 northwoods rd
wilton, ny 12831

if you click around on the map you get hugely varying results and i'm guessing i'm in one of the areas that is more blue.

All my channels are on the same hill about 40 miles away. I currently have a 80" radio shack combo that worked great in my last house 15 miles away. Now i'm getting the VHF (7 and 12) good (80-95% depending on my aiming) and the uhf servicable (63-70%) with the exception of one channel (CBS, 39). If i tweak the antenna's aim just a little my UHF is affected, but i can change out the CBS channel for ABC (26). It's going in the attic so a rotor isnt an option (and i don't want to deal with it).

I've seen posts on UHF onlys that can pick up the high VHF. Is 7 high? Right now the antenna is in an unused 2nd floor bedroom until i can get in the attic.

1) can i use the antenna now for VHF and combine it with a UHF or will the UHF side screw things up?
2) some of the UHF are going back to VHF when analog goes dark (specifically the one i'm having trouble with).

Would the larger RS 160" combo do it? or can i spend less money somehow else? I need my CBS for football

Edit: oh and i don't have a pre-amp. suggest that first? I do have a radio shack amplified 4 way spitter but i don't think that's the same right?

TIA
Steve

I'm able to get KPXM (41.1) from 55125 - their transmitter is 49.2 miles away from me - using a small indoor antenna. I need only a UHF antenna since there are no digital station in VHF in my area.

 

[splat10]

Here's an update on what worked for me.

Bought a CM 4228 and CM7777 pre-amp. combined them with my ratt shack 80 combo using the CM7777 vhf input and got everything coming in good enough so that i was ok on all channels. Wife got annoyed with the antennas in the spare bedroom so i move them up in the attic yesterday and found that the 4228 was pulling in the 7 and 12 vhf channels just fine (as good as the vhf) so i got rid of that and am getting real good numbers now.

For some reason one of the local uhf has issues some days and drops out (channel 6 / 39.1) so no idea why cause it was coming in fine yesterday.

 

[Barry Erick]

A UHF only will NOT pick up ch 7, usually. The market I work in has 2 v's, ch 11 and 13 (which are combined and go into the very same VHF antenna) and others on the same hill, no more than a 1000 feet away, on 35 through 49 U. Those with U only usually pick up 13V, but not 11V. A combo does all. Being 15 miles away, though, I use a rotor because even ch11 and 13 propagate differently. Sometimes I find this on the U's.

Anyway, our official response to I can get all but ch 11 is you need a combo antenna.

 

[splat10]

yeah i was very surprised when i picked 7 and 12 with the 4228 and 7777 (only get around 40-50% without the pre-amp) but i am (and i'm 40 miles away). So if you have one vhf channel you may be in luck. Who knows?

 

[Rick0725]

I took your approach here with very favorable results. I added the 91xg to my setup and used my hd8200p for vhf only.

The 91xg is directional, handles multipath very nicely, is much lighter than a cm4228 (6.5 lbs vs 15 lbs), and would be much more stable in winds. the antennas were spaced about 3 ft apart. the cm 4228 did not work for me here.

the 2 antennas were combined with a cm 0549 vhf/uhf combiner ($7.50 -warren electronics) with only .5 db insertion loss and amplified with a winegard hdp 269 off of the cm0549. the 91xg ($80 -solid signal) would cost less than a cm3671 and would provide better performance on uhf over any combo antenna out there in the marketplace.

I have experimented with many antenna setups during the last 20+ years...cm3671, hd8200p, cm4228, 91xg, etc...and the two antenna setup is the best by far.

you can utilize your current antenna for vhf and combine a top performing uhf antenna for the best of both worlds. I just hate to compromise using a cm 4228 for high band vhf reception.

see avitar.

tower guy check out my current wiring scheme.

-use more filering to pass only vhf and trap a close fm tower (100.9) off the hd8200p (purchased filters from a local company).
-used the hdp 269 as a distribution amp only amplifying uhf on the long runs and passed vhf unamplified.
-the short run to the home theater was not amplified.
-used a winegard fm/vhf-uhf splitter-combiner to further isolate fm from the tv setup and sent the fm signal to the receiver.

this has been the best compromise so far.

 

[Peter Parker]

A UHF only will NOT pick up ch 7, usually. The market I work in has 2 v's, ch 11 and 13 (which are combined and go into the very same VHF antenna) and others on the same hill, no more than a 1000 feet away, on 35 through 49 U. Those with U only usually pick up 13V, but not 11V. A combo does all. Being 15 miles away, though, I use a rotor because even ch11 and 13 propagate differently. Sometimes I find this on the U's.

Anyway, our official response to I can get all but ch 11 is you need a combo antenna.

many have said that the Cm 4228 does agood job with HI VHF reception.

 

[texasbrit]

many have said that the Cm 4228 does agood job with HI VHF reception.

The CM4228 will do an OK job on VHF-hi with anything up to maybe a "red" rated station on antennaweb, and depending on your actual situation may pick up weaker stations also. The simulations show nulls for the Cm4228 on channels 7 and 12 but these are only simulated results and in practice people seem to get good results on these channels also. If you can't get your VHF-hi stations with a CM4228 then you should couple a VHF-hi band antenna - because they are VHF-hi and don't cover the VHF-lo band they are a bit more manageable in size than all-VHF antennas. And if you use a CM7777 preamp you can separate the VHF and UHF inputs and use the preamp to couple the antennas together.