Unusual Dish Network Installation/Configuration...

[Zeigh]

Hello,

I am preparing for a Dish Network technician to install my system and being that my pocket protector is pretty big itself, want to make it as easy as possible for us both. My configuration will involve one Hopper and one Joey, both installed in a network closet and fed to the rest of the house via HDMI-over-Cat6 and an IR repeater. I will set up a table immediately outside of this area with two HDTV's and power sources for the ease of setup, testing, and sign-off of the installation (no HDMI-over-Cat6 connections will be done then). Once the technician is gone, then I will then reassemble everything on my network rack to my geek standards. Here are a few questions:

- I have two runs of RG6 quad cabling (rated at 3GHz) from my network closet to where a single satellite dish will be installed. The total length is about 40-50 feet. Is this within limitations to have the solo node installed in the network closet?

- What are the grounding considerations with this? It seems like I read that the solo node was to be no more than 20 feet from the dish if it is used for grounding, but didn't see another option.

- Is there anything that would contractually prevent the customer from distributing a Dish signal with private equipment to other HDTV's inside their own home? I have not seen such a detail in my contract, but then again, my eyes got all glassy trying to read it.


More Microchips Than Sense,
Dr. Z.

 

[navychop]

- Yes.

- Let the installer worry about that. I prefer to have my nodes inside, but that is not really necessary.

- No. Lots of folks do this.

Why bother with an IR repeater? The Hopper system uses UHF primarily. You can always relocate the remote antenna if need be.


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[sparc]

wiring diagrams and other documentation show all the specs you should need. here's the link:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=279755

an example of the distance recommendations from those docs:

• Maximum 200-foot cable length from LNBF to farthest Hopper
• Maximum 200-foot cable length between any Hopper and Joey

 

[Zeigh]

Why bother with an IR repeater? The Hopper system uses UHF primarily. You can always relocate the remote antenna if need be.

I forgot about the UHF remote control capability. Regardless, the IR repeater system is already installed in the wiring infrastructure, so it is there if needed. It and the HDMI-over-Cat6 has worked well in the testing using a DVD player. I just hope that the quirkiness of HDMI distribution (EDID really) will not be an issue with the Hopper and/or Joey. HA, there is just no consistency sometimes with this technology...

 

[boba]

I'm sure you have already considered it but be sure you have adequate ventilation.

 

[gklyber]

The grounding block should be as close to the entry of the building as possible for lightning/fire protection. If you want the solo node in the closet, it is best to install a separate ground block outside and leave the solo node ungrounded.

 

[Zeigh]

I'm sure you have already considered it but be sure you have adequate ventilation.

Believe me, living in the desert, I designed my network closet with ventilation as one of the first considerations. I have three fans that together product 666 CFM when needed (for the 72 cubic foot area) and two 18"x18" vented ports to draw in air at ground level. A controller kicks the fans in at low speed around 90F degrees and is hardly noticeable. However, when they hit full speed, it sounds like you are behind a B-17 aircraft about to take off! There is also a separate temperature sensor that is Internet connected, so I can remotely override control if needed. George Jetson would be proud...

 

[JM42]

I forgot about the UHF remote control capability. Regardless, the IR repeater system is already installed in the wiring infrastructure, so it is there if needed. It and the HDMI-over-Cat6 has worked well in the testing using a DVD player. I just hope that the quirkiness of HDMI distribution (EDID really) will not be an issue with the Hopper and/or Joey. HA, there is just no consistency sometimes with this technology...

In case you didn't know, Hopper and Joey will use the same address for IR remotes, you can't set separate addresses for IR like older receivers. Any EDID problems would be an issue with the splitter. I use a couple of pretty cheap 4 port units without problems.

 

[Zeigh]

In case you didn't know, Hopper and Joey will use the same address for IR remotes, you can't set separate addresses for IR like older receivers. Any EDID problems would be an issue with the splitter. I use a couple of pretty cheap 4 port units without problems.

What?! I thought that I researched this earlier:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/312784-IR-Commands-Between-Hopper-and-Joey

On closer inspection, I see that I didn't follow through with my own thread to get the "correct, no really, correct" answer. I am going to download the manual and double-check, but from what I am seeing, there is no way to have a Hopper and Joey in one IR or UHF remote control zone. If that really is the case, then I have no less than six Cat6 cables routed to every room of my home and I can just install another IR zone without too much hassle. Oh, unless it is possible to use UHF only for one and IR for the other? Regardless, more geek testing is in order...

 

[lucky86]

You could use 2g for one and have ir disabled on that box and then enable ir on the other and use an IR only remote. Or simpler solution, use 2g for each. The remotes link to each receiver separately and will not conflict.

 

[Zeigh]

Whole House Remote Control Plan B...

As stated, I could configure two separate IR zones, but that would still mean that one or the other IR receiver would have to be manually isolated depending on which unit the user wanted to operate. I am looking for a system more seamless. Remembering that I will have one Hopper and one Joey in my network closet, both intended to be accessed by every room of the house via HDMI-over-Cat6, what does anyone think of this PLAN B for remote control operation?

The Hopper would exclusively be controlled via UHF and the Joey via IR. Like it has been mentioned, the IR infrastructure is already in place for every room. For the UHF to work throughout the house, I was thinking of installing a UHF antenna in every room attached to the coaxial jack (RG6 quad cabling, originally installed for cable/satellite TV). In the network closet, all of the RG6 cable runs would be terminated together and then connected to the Hopper. In theory, that should allow a UHF remote control signal in the furthest room (about 120 feet of cable away) to effectively communicate. Any comments?

In the meantime, does anyone know what the real world UHF operation distance is between a (Platinum model?) remote control and the antenna of a Hopper, without any other interference?


“Technological change is like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal.” (Albert Einstein, 1941),
Dr. Z.

 

[navychop]

IF you got the UHF control as described running, and I'm not sure about the distance, you wouldn't need the IR system at all. As stated, each remote pairs with an individual Hopper or Joey. Once working for one, it would work for both. Then you'd have no concerns about aiming the remotes.

I doubt you'd need an antenna in each room. You'll have to experiment because no one can say how well the signal will travel in your home thru your walls, but this would be easy to do. Probably adjacent and nearby rooms can share a single antenna.

 

[Zeigh]

IF you got the UHF control as described running, and I'm not sure about the distance, you wouldn't need the IR system at all. As stated, each remote pairs with an individual Hopper or Joey. Once working for one, it would work for both. Then you'd have no concerns about aiming the remotes.

I doubt you'd need an antenna in each room. You'll have to experiment because no one can say how well the signal will travel in your home thru your walls, but this would be easy to do. Probably adjacent and nearby rooms can share a single antenna.

Yes, you are right about being able to use UHF for both Hopper and Joey once paired. The question remains about the effective distance between the remote and unit. I am still considering the use of IR for the rooms that are the furthest away and would most likely only be using the Joey. Then again, UHF antennas for this purpose are only $4.50 each on eBay.

I am going to start another thread specifically on this issue to see if anyone has further input. Like most of my life, it will boil down to trial and error, with error taking up the most time. HA! Thanks for everyone's help so far...


- Dr. Z. -

 

[StevenD]

How are those Monoprice switches working out?

 

[Zeigh]

How are those Monoprice switches working out?

I am using three of their HDMI-over-Cat6 distribution amps (model #8160)n and to be quite honest, it is just a crap shoot on how they work between certain sources and HDTV's. Test connections with a Sony Blu-ray player and AppleTV to HDTV's from Sharp, Vizio, and Westinghouse have worked well with a few oddities. However, trying to get a signal between a Mac Mini (with HDMI port) and any of the HDTV's via the Monoprice unit usually failed or was inconsistent for unknown reasons. The Sharp HDTV would only work without power to the HDMI-over-Cat6 receiver! I also discovered that Monoprice right-angle HDMI adapters botched such connections, even though I am using the Monoprice 24AWG high-speed HDMI cables.

As far as a Hopper/Joey are concerned, their HDMI signal should be similar to what the Sony Blu-ray output, so it is a good gamble that the configuration will work. I'll report back with what I found...


- Dr. Z. -

 

[gpflepsen]

How reliable are these HDMI splitters with HDCP? Could that be some of the problem?

 

[Zeigh]

The HDCP version is 1.2a on the Monoprice units, so that should be fine. The finicky issue here is EDID and basic handshaking. Problems can usually be corrected with turning all devices off and systematically restarting them, but what good does that do when you are settled in bed for the night and the network closet is in the basement? There are several web sites devoted to this very issue and it usually boils down money; you get what you pay for. Monoprice is the Harbor Freight of the electronic world. HA! Of course I could get a similar Gefen unit that costs over $2000, but then it would be cheaper to have several Joey's traditionally connected and pay Dish monthly...

Like I mentioned, I think that the Hopper/Joey will play nice with the Monoprice units.


- Dr. Z. -

 

[Zeigh]

Update on Monoprice HDMI-Over-Cat6 distribution Amps...

Because some of you asked, here is a copy of the review I posted at Monoprice.com concerning their HDMI-over-Cat6 distribution amp (model 8160)...


Pros:
?
- Works as advertised if HDCP, EDID, and a full moon don't blacken the screen first
- Much cheaper than a similar $2000 Gefen unit

Cons:

- Not very sturdily built
- No rack mountable hardware available, even though there are holes drilled in the unit for this

Review:

I initially purchase two of these units for a home communications wiring upgrade. They were not put into service until about two months after purchase and then, with only half the ports used as the project progressed. It was a simple plug and play with Cat6 cabling. I distributed the audio/video of two DishTV tuners throughout my home and all worked really well (max Cat6 length was 131 feet). A few months later and all eight ports on both units were connected. I was so impressed that I bought another unit to distribute security cameras. That's where I started loosing hair and having to bum Prozac from my neighbor.

This model does not like to play well with the HDMI signal of a Mac Mini. I tried three Macs in my testing and really found no constancy in the ability for a signal to reach a monitor. What worked one minute, fizzled the next, then would reappear the next day. I used all high-speed 24 AWG HDMI cables, cleaned the connections, tweaked the source video configuration, and more invasive troubleshooting to no avail. I eventually abandoned the idea until another Mac model becomes available. The unit was temporarily used to distribute the signal of a blu-ray player.

I also discovered that a low budget HDTV that I purchased from WalMart would only accept a signal from this product about 70% of the time. Once again, no constancy in the troubleshooting. This was most likely due to the sweatshop kid assembled HDTV and not the Monoprice unit, but buyer should be ware regardless.

Now, after 18 months, ALL THREE units have eventually began to come up with port failures. The only consistency I found with this is that port #8 on all models failed first, then only one unit had two other ports fail. I might say that there was some electrical spike issue that damaged them, but each unit was on a separate circuit and with it's own high quality surge protector. I might also be concerned about heat buildup running 24/7, but I had external fans attached specifically to keep things such components cool. No other device in the chain showed any problems. I have returned one of the units for store credit and purchased another two via my credit card extended warranty program.

Monoprice has cheap prices for a reason; they are the Harbor Freight of electronics. Some of their products work really well, while others just don't last the test of a true geek like me. The only reason that I purchased another two units is because it was basically free with my warranty extension and, well, I am a delusional optimist. Besides, I am not willing to gamble $4000 on two similar Gefen units and risk having the same thing happen. Monoprice has it's place sometimes in my arsenal of microchips.


“Technological change is like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal.” (Albert Einstein, 1941),
Dr. Z.