UHD Bitrate

[HDTVFanAtic]

Directv on Top - Dish on Bottom
From Transport Stream - Bypassing STB muxer and output circuits
This should be the best comparison of the 2 services with the least variables.
Directv resized to proper 16:9 resolution
Full 1920x1080i jpegs in thumbnails below


Directv .png 960x540


Dish .png 960x540

Directv .png 960x540


Dish .png 960x540

Directv .png 960x540


Dish .png 960x540




Directv .jpg 1920x1080i


Dish .jpg 1920x1080i

Directv .jpg 1920x1080i


Dish .jpg 1920x1080i

Directv .jpg 1920x1080i


Dish .jpg 1920x1080i

 

[duckydan]

Thanks for the pics and for the numbers on the bitrate but once again I fail to see any difference between the two. I only had dish hd for about a day before I had probs with the service and had to cancel but when compared to the comcast (bad example as they pixilated like a mother the whole month I had it) or the d* that I currently have there wasn't a noticable difference... maybe it depends on the tv (mine isn't top of the line but still got decent reviews) or the location or a million other things but I fail to see any difference... then again I'm also not noticing any difference between d* hd-lite and the hd I watched back with voom so it could just be my untrained eye at work.

 

[HDTVFanAtic]

There have been comments about darkness and color. As I stated in another thread - and suspected - those have more to do with the STB and output then the actual service.

I would say to compare the kite in the top photo as well as the yellow umbrella.

The Green Boat and the blue Umbrellas in the second as well as the sharpness of the facial details.

The red sail in the last - as well as the texture of the surface of the water

No, its not as dramatic as most people have stated.

When HDLITE looks this close to full resolution, something is wrong - which is the bitrate is too low for either service.

What you cannot see in these stills are the bad macroblocking.

Also, it is interesting as I view these pictures on a laptop LCD and a 21" CRT on different systems.

The green of the boat looks better on D* a notebook LCD, but E* looks better on it with a the CRT.

The surface of the water, I would probably give an edge to the Directv on the CRT and the laptop - even though the Directv image on that shot is a TAD BIT darker - but not as dark as many have said.

Edit:

Almost forgot to mention - D* could look better to you or E* could look better under actual use.

I have learned that most of what people see and attribute to the services is a function of the STB remuxer and output circuits - not to mention the input circuit design on their HDTV.

This takes ALL THOSE OUT OF THE EQUATION - which is the fairest comparison - though not what you yourself might experience in real life.

 

[Sean Mota]

HDTVFanatic,

thanks for the pictures and your explanation.

1 - Is it your experience that "macroblocking" have been on both providers or just one?

2 - Based on your explanation on how the pictures look similar even though the resolutions are different and bitrates similar, I failed to see how on a calibrated unit one provider will exceed in colors while the other do not. In my example, I have a 942 and a DirecTivo. Are you saying that the DirecTivo is making the decoloration of the output?

 

[Sean Mota]

I read the comment you posted on the other thread that answers my second question. I am assuming that "macroblocking" is evident on both since the bitrates are so low. Thanks again. http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?p=483045#post483045

 

[bgsmallwood]

HDTVFanAtic, Thanks for the pics and info.

I can't really see any difference between the pics but then I am looking at them on a 15.4" WS laptop, NOT on a 60+" HDTV.

I agree the bitrates are starved on both providers feeds. MPEG2 really needs at least 12mbs to be true HD. I see similar effects on some of the local OTA stations that are multicasting a second or third SD weather/news channel. You can tell their primary channel is not up to snuff compared to the stations that devote all of their bw to one HD broadcast. What are you gonna do though? They think they need to send out those weather channels 24x7.

 

[HDTVFanAtic]

Again, having gone through the number of cable boxes and Satellite STBs I have, I have found GREATER differences in the boxes and output (YPbPr-DVI-HDMI-IEEE1394 or upconverted to 1080i downcoverted to 720p etc) than I do between sources.

For example, OTA I get the cleanest HD Signal

Next in line, but clearly having more "haze" is my cablecard - as my cableco reencodes the locals.

My 8300HD via HDMI output then is another noticable notch down.

Finally, the YPbPr output from the SA3250HD is another drop down and adds more haze.

These are all from the same "source", yet noticably different.

I can replicate the 3 Cable Differences on any HD Movie Channel as well.

As for macroblocking, I clearly see more on E* as would be expected with both sources being so similar in bitrate.

 

[npm]

HDTVFanAtic,

This is really great. Thanks for doing it. My first thought is to do the same comparison on more recent content. Newer TV series, or better yet Olympic Hockey. Any chance you would want to do it again?

I cannot help but think that D* is helped here by a not so great transfer.

Also, I would love to see something on HDNet or DHDT showing the difference between bitrate AND resolution. A video show could be very telling. Or not?

Thanks again!!

 

[HDTVFanAtic]

those have been done at various times npm - just never on UHD.

 

[HDTVFanAtic]

The local Network Operations Center ran a monitor on Universal HD for me - off their MUX INPUT DIRECTLY OFF THEIR SATELLITE RECEIVER.

From 11:00AM Eastern 2/14 until 11:00AM Eastern 2/15 the average bitrate has been 11.9067Mbps.

The highest peak they hit was 15.4220 Mbps.

You can take the 384Kbps Audio out of that as well as some slight overhead.

As they see the same problems that have been mentioned here that we all know about off their direct feeds - plus this rate isn't that far off HBO, you must wonder if UHD's encoders are old first generation encoders that were moved out from NBC and not up to the job or today's standards.

 

[vurbano]

I read the comment you posted on the other thread that answers my second question. I am assuming that "macroblocking" is evident on both since the bitrates are so low. Thanks again. http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?p=483045#post483045

I think the blocking would be worse on E* in this case (and only this one). By downrezzing to 1280x1080i the D* video isnt demanding nearly the bandwidth that the 1920x1080i on E* is. If the bitrates are the same (very strange) then E* would have more problems. Im sure this is temporary for E*.

 

[HDTVFanAtic]

I think the blocking would be worse on E* in this case (and only this one). By downrezzing to 1280x1080i the D* video isnt demanding nearly the bandwidth that the 1920x1080i on E* is. If the bitrates are the same (very strange) then E* would have more problems. Im sure this is temporary for E*.

And you are correct - it is worse on E* and evident when you look at Olympic Coverage.

As for the temporary state on E* - I heard that about Voom and HDLITE for the last 10 months as well.