Tweaking reception

[Mr_Flintstone]

I live in a spot that can receive only one OTA signal, and it is 2Edge.

Real Channel = 12
NM(db) = 7.9
Pwr (dBm) = -82.9
Path = 2Edge

I have successfully picked it up on a large VHF antenna, but where the signal is 2 edge, it must shift somewhat throughout the day. I have been told that I need an antenna with a large capture area. Could someone explain to me what this means?

 

[FTA4PA]

I live in a spot that can receive only one OTA signal, and it is 2Edge.

Real Channel = 12
NM(db) = 7.9
Pwr (dBm) = -82.9
Path = 2Edge

I have successfully picked it up on a large VHF antenna, but where the signal is 2 edge, it must shift somewhat throughout the day. I have been told that I need an antenna with a large capture area. Could someone explain to me what this means?

A good explanation of capture area (effective aperature) and antenna stacking: www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek/stacking/stacking2.htm#1. What antenna model are you using? How far away is the station? What is the height of your antenna? Are you using a pre-amp? P.S. Welcome to the site!

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

I have a Winegard 7084P, and the station is about 20 miles away. The antenna is about 25 feet, but there is a hill about 1600 ft high in my way. The signal stays pretty constant through the day, but at night it starts to drift, and I lose the signal.

The best signal meter I have on any of my devices in an old Coolsat 8000 sat box. All my TVs just show the signal as weak, good, or excellent, but the sat box has a meter that ranges 0-100. The signal bounces from about 72-99 constantly, occasionally dropping down below 50. When I used the box at another location the meter stayed pretty much at a constant level, only moving a couple points or so on the meter.

 

[Mr Tony]

2edge means it bounces off two things to get to you. Doesn't look like you're working with much signal to begin with
Have you tried a pre-amp? Its the first thing I would try as the antenna looks like a good one

Can I (no pun intended) hazard a guess and its WYMT you're trying to get?

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

2edge means it bounces off two things to get to you. Doesn't look like you're working with much signal to begin with
Have you tried a pre-amp? Its the first thing I would try as the antenna looks like a good one

Can I (no pun intended) hazard a guess and its WYMT you're trying to get?

Yes, it's WYMT. I have Dish Network, but it carries the Tri-Cities TN local channels. In order to get local news and college basketball games I'm forced to try and pull in something over the air.

I've tried three ways with the signal. All pretty much the same. Without a pre-amp I get about 65-72 on the coolsat meter. It doesn't fluctuate as much as amplified, but of course the signal strength is lower. With an old radio shack 25 db pre-amp I get the 72-99 listed earlier. I also tried with a 15 db distribution amp, but it was about the same as the pre-amp.

Interestingly enough, I can go out in the yard with rabbit ears and get about the same signal as with the un-amplified Winegard. Maybe my TVFool report is a little off. Its just that the signal isn't very consistent. It varies by time of day, temperature, etc... Sometimes it will work good for a few hours, and then go out for a few minutes for no apparent reason and then come back.

I've been told locally that my beam width is too tight on my Winegard. I've also been told that it would be better if I use a dipole with very thick elements. The truth is I just don't know what all this stuff does.

 

[. Raine]

The distribution amp won't help with the signal, that's for overcoming loss of signal connecting to multiple TVs/devices. An old RS pre-amp I wouldn't put much hope into working very well, I'd try something like this:

Amazon product ASIN B001DFVJ4W
This is the one I use, it's 28db UHF, 29db VHF. Also make sure that you're using RG6 or better coax and not RG59. Of course, being a 2 edge signal it's a crap shoot, YMMV.

 

[Mr Tony]

Yes, it's WYMT. I have Dish Network, but it carries the Tri-Cities TN local channels. In order to get local news and college basketball games I'm forced to try and pull in something over the air.

I figured it was either WYMT or KEYC Mankato, MN (those 2 markets only have one station in the market and it is on 12)

Interestingly enough, I can go out in the yard with rabbit ears and get about the same signal as with the un-amplified Winegard. Maybe my TVFool report is a little off. Its just that the signal isn't very consistent. It varies by time of day, temperature, etc... Sometimes it will work good for a few hours, and then go out for a few minutes for no apparent reason and then come back.

the issue is really the signal and the mountains. You are working with a station that is in the mountains and has to reflect off two things to get to you so its a crap shoot.
You could try and move the antenna. Sometimes up and down the pole can make a difference
Make sure cable is RG6 and if you have a 300ohm/75ohm transformer on the antenna (flat lead to coax) make sure that is in good shape.
You can try a pre-amp. As noted above distribution amps just amplify the existing signal

Your antenna is the right type

 

[DRCars]

...snip...
Interestingly enough, I can go out in the yard with rabbit ears and get about the same signal as with the un-amplified Winegard. Maybe my TVFool report is a little off. Its just that the signal isn't very consistent. It varies by time of day, temperature, etc... Sometimes it will work good for a few hours, and then go out for a few minutes for no apparent reason and then come back.
...snip...

From my 2-Edge experience there's no telling where you might come upon a sweet spot for the antenna. I spent mucho time trying to get stable signal by going higher and higher. I was about to give it up and call it quits. One day I decided to walk around the property with a 10 ft. mast with the antenna on it at the end of about 100 ft. of RG6 just to see what I could find. My wife was shouting the results of my efforts from in the house at the TV. She yelled something I didn't understand which, in my current state of mind, ticked me off a little. So, out of frustration I walked over to a nearby rotten stump, with her yelling "Bad, bad, worse," and jammed the antenna into it so I could go in the house to see what was going on. She yells, "Perfect, stop, perfect."

That antenna stayed there for a long time until that stump rotted almost completely away. If I moved it more than 1-2 ft. the signal would go to crap again. Later I found another equally good location for the antenna. Now it is about 3 ft. above the ground pointed straight into a thicket where I left it to go take a break while working on it one day. Go figure! If that spot quits working I'll look for another.

BTW, I use a CM7777 pre-amp and my current antenna is the biggest one Radio Shack sold when I bought it. It's about 10-12 ft. long.

Good Luck,
DRCars

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Thanks guys.

I've got a small vhf-high antenna that's easy to carry around. If I mount that to a pole and walk it around to find the highest signal I can with it, then I guess I can mount the big antenna there.

Just one more question. Should I go for the highest signal, or the one that's most stable?

 

[boba]

Thanks guys.

I've got a small vhf-high antenna that's easy to carry around. If I mount that to a pole and walk it around to find the highest signal I can with it, then I guess I can mount the big antenna there.

Just one more question. Should I go for the highest signal, or the one that's most stable?

You can replace the small antenna with the larger one but don't be surprised if the small one works better. You want as stable a signal as you can get but also as strong as possible.

 

[Mr Tony]

Just one more question. Should I go for the highest signal, or the one that's most stable?

I would go for most stable
I know when I lived in an apartment I thought "mount the antenna the highest I can in the closet and be done" but I actually had to lower it on the mast to find the best spot (most stable reception)
Yes I had an outdoor antenna on a mast in my walk in closet

The fact you're only working with one station makes it somewhat easier

 

[danristheman]

Check out tvfool for the tv stations in your area.

 

[Mr Tony]

Check out tvfool for the tv stations in your area.

please read the 1st post before posting an asinine comment

but since you didn't read it, I'll post it
I live in a spot that can receive only one OTA signal, and it is 2Edge.

Real Channel = 12
NM(db) = 7.9
Pwr (dBm) = -82.9
Path = 2Edge

He is an area with ONE TV channel. WYMT 57 (RF12) Hazard, KY and already posted the tvfool info for that station.

 

[danristheman]

Jee wizz. Ok just trying to help.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

OK guys, first I want to say thanks for all the help.

I went out and moved my antenna around today hooked to my Coolsat and a small TV. I found a spot with 85+ signal consistently on the signal meter. The location was close to my Dish network dish, so I ran a short cable to the dish, and used a set of diplexers to run the signal along the same cable. On the inside I checked the signal on the Coolsat meter and it ran 78-84 consistently without an amplifier. After this, I decided to check the OTA module on my Dish 722. I never used them in the past because they wouldn't hold a lock. I connected them and scanned local channels, and they held constant at about 65-66. This is a little low for the dish module. I believe the floor on signal lock about 60. I'll keep an eye on the signal to see if it is consistent. I think that a newer model pre-amp would also help.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Sorry to keep bothering everyone. I've been watching my signal, and it's been pretty consistent. I got out my calculator and did some figuring, and it appears that my signal loss from my antenna to the house is pretty high. See the attached image. Could someone check over my figures and suggest an amp/pre-amp that would fit my needs? Apparently there's plenty signal where I now have it, but most of it is lost on its way to the TV.

 

[boba]

Sorry to keep bothering everyone. I've been watching my signal, and it's been pretty consistent. I got out my calculator and did some figuring, and it appears that my signal loss from my antenna to the house is pretty high. See the attached image. Could someone check over my figures and suggest an amp/pre-amp that would fit my needs? Apparently there's plenty signal where I now have it, but most of it is lost on its way to the TV.

View attachment 102455

A 2 way splitter is normally calculated as 3.5 dB of loss or 1/2 your signal so if possible add your distribution amp before the 2 way splitter. In post 5 you said you have a 15dB distribution amp so give it a try. You show 2 150' cable runs between the diplexers, can that be shortened?

 

[FTA4PA]

Sorry to keep bothering everyone. I've been watching my signal, and it's been pretty consistent. I got out my calculator and did some figuring, and it appears that my signal loss from my antenna to the house is pretty high. See the attached image. Could someone check over my figures and suggest an amp/pre-amp that would fit my needs? Apparently there's plenty signal where I now have it, but most of it is lost on its way to the TV.
View attachment 102455

Agree with boba - shorten any cable run that you can as there is loss incurred there as well, especially over long lengths like you are using. The higher the frequency, the higher the loss. This page from Channel Master will give you an idea just how much: http://support.channelmaster.com/hc...Signal-Do-I-Lose-Going-Through-Coaxial-Cable- Also as boba said, if you use an amplifier, put it before the splitter and as close to the antenna as possible, if that is possible. Amplifiers amplify noise as well as the tv signal so you want to amplify the signal before it is degraded by the long run. Good Luck!

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

So if I replace the coupler with the distribution amp, I should get something like this:

I can't shorten the 150 foot runs because my satellite dish is a good distance from my house in order to see over the hills. I can probably shorten the 25 foot run by a few feet and get another .5 dB.

 

[FTA4PA]

So if I replace the coupler with the distribution amp, I should get something like this:
View attachment 102456
I can't shorten the 150 foot runs because my satellite dish is a good distance from my house in order to see over the hills. I can probably shorten the 25 foot run by a few feet and get another .5 dB.

Another question then arises. If the amplifier is located 6' from the antenna then you are definitely using it outside. Is the distribution amp outdoor rated and can you safely run power to it without the risk of electrocution? Probably not. If this is a plug in distribution amp then we are talking about 120 volts of AC power sitting on the antenna mast. It would be safer to install a mast mounted preamp such as this http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=CM-7777&d=Channel-Master-Titan2-TV-Antenna-Preamp-w-Power-Supply(CM7777)&c=Pre-Amplifiers&sku=02057207774. It's injector is usually plugged in safely inside your home but since the antenna feed needs to move on to the satellite dish that's not likely possible. You could place the power injector just before the splitter if there is a weather protected GFCI outlet available nearby.