Tom's excellent install adventure

[Tom J]

Backstory: I’m a nine-year DTV customer still using a triple LNB and HR10-250’s. I thought I might join modern society and upgrade to a Genie with three clients. I expect that I’ll be offered a free upgrade w/ installation, however, I want to install (mount) the dish myself. I plan on having the equipment installed and the dish aligned by DTV, but I wanted to do the dish myself. I’m retired now and have the time and inclination to do this. I’ve done some pretty extensive research on this but that said, I need some guidance on some things I’m not clear about and that’s where all of your collective experience can help me. THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR ALL YOUR HELP. Lets dive right in:

1. I have already mounted the dish in a good location with an easy 10-degree clearance. No issues there. I’ve read some conflicting information on mounting. Some people have said “no custom mounts at all” while others have said that it just needs to be mounted securely with 2 and 3-inch lag screws. While I did fabricate a “custom” mount, the dish is nevertheless attached directly to the house. The monopoles are attached with 4-1/2” lags into studs and the base uses all 3-inch lags that go into the rim joist or top plates. So, everything is into solid wood. My concern is that the tech may refuse the install due to the possibility that it would fail a QC inspection because it’s “custom”. I’m I being overly concerned? BTW, my market is OMAHA and i’m not sure who does the installs here.

2. Grounding. Oh yeah, I forget to mention I’m installing the ground rod and bonding it back to the service ground myself. With a SWiM LNB do you use a single or dual ground block? If dual, does the Tech run dual RG6 into the house or just cap off the unused port?

3. If you were installing this where would you place the ground block? The cable feed thru would have to be located below the mount.

Tom

 

[raoul5788]

I'll leave the grounding comments to those more knowledgeable. The dish itself is mounted as good or better than I have ever seen. Excellent job! Whether or not it conforms to what is acceptable, I don't know. Two questions: Is the mast plumb, and how did you do that, and is the cleat at the bottom of the dish base lagged to structure? Strictly from a structure viewpoint, A+. I use a post level when plumbing masts. I find it faster and more accurate than using a torpedo level, and MUCH more accurate than the bubble in the top of the mast.

 

[Joe Diamond]

Backstory: I’m a nine-year DTV customer still using a triple LNB and HR10-250’s. I thought I might join modern society and upgrade to a Genie with three clients. I expect that I’ll be offered a free upgrade w/ installation, however, I want to install (mount) the dish myself. I plan on having the equipment installed and the dish aligned by DTV, but I wanted to do the dish myself. I’m retired now and have the time and inclination to do this. I’ve done some pretty extensive research on this but that said, I need some guidance on some things I’m not clear about and that’s where all of your collective experience can help me. THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR ALL YOUR HELP. Lets dive right in:

1. I have already mounted the dish in a good location with an easy 10-degree clearance. No issues there. I’ve read some conflicting information on mounting. Some people have said “no custom mounts at all” while others have said that it just needs to be mounted securely with 2 and 3-inch lag screws. While I did fabricate a “custom” mount, the dish is nevertheless attached directly to the house. The monopoles are attached with 4-1/2” lags into studs and the base uses all 3-inch lags that go into the rim joist or top plates. So, everything is into solid wood. My concern is that the tech may refuse the install due to the possibility that it would fail a QC inspection because it’s “custom”. I’m I being overly concerned? BTW, my market is OMAHA and i’m not sure who does the installs here.

2. Grounding. Oh yeah, I forget to mention I’m installing the ground rod and bonding it back to the service ground myself. With a SWiM LNB do you use a single or dual ground block? If dual, does the Tech run dual RG6 into the house or just cap off the unused port?

3. If you were installing this where would you place the ground block? The cable feed thru would have to be located below the mount.

Tom
View attachment 92527
View attachment 92528
View attachment 92526

Hey Tom,
You are off to a good start. As Chip correctly stated you have exceeded requirements to install the dish. That bit about no custom mounts has to do with what either DirecTV or their Home Service Providers (HSPs) want to live with so not to worry about that.

Regarding the grounding you are really talking about two things. What is wanted is a ground block within about ten feet of the electrical bond for your building and likewise within about ten feet of where the cable enters the building. Probably this will be exactly where your existing system is run and you can use all that existing cable if you want.

Actually you could accomplish what you want by just changing the LNB on the existing dish. That back bonding is expensive and for the small dish application not worth it. The sat line from the dish has a light (16ga I think) ground line bonded to it and that is connected to the dish at one end and the ground block at the other. You willonbly need one of the two RG6 lines but mark the one that stays on service. Put a barrelconnector with electrolyte grease on the other as a spare.

Is the dish you are working on at the same location as the one currently in service? Can't tell from the pics.

Joe

 

[Joe Diamond]

Backstory: I’m a nine-year DTV customer still using a triple LNB and HR10-250’s. I thought I might join modern society and upgrade to a Genie with three clients. I expect that I’ll be offered a free upgrade w/ installation, however, I want to install (mount) the dish myself. I plan on having the equipment installed and the dish aligned by DTV, but I wanted to do the dish myself. I’m retired now and have the time and inclination to do this. I’ve done some pretty extensive research on this but that said, I need some guidance on some things I’m not clear about and that’s where all of your collective experience can help me. THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR ALL YOUR HELP. Lets dive right in:

1. I have already mounted the dish in a good location with an easy 10-degree clearance. No issues there. I’ve read some conflicting information on mounting. Some people have said “no custom mounts at all” while others have said that it just needs to be mounted securely with 2 and 3-inch lag screws. While I did fabricate a “custom” mount, the dish is nevertheless attached directly to the house. The monopoles are attached with 4-1/2” lags into studs and the base uses all 3-inch lags that go into the rim joist or top plates. So, everything is into solid wood. My concern is that the tech may refuse the install due to the possibility that it would fail a QC inspection because it’s “custom”. I’m I being overly concerned? BTW, my market is OMAHA and i’m not sure who does the installs here.

2. Grounding. Oh yeah, I forget to mention I’m installing the ground rod and bonding it back to the service ground myself. With a SWiM LNB do you use a single or dual ground block? If dual, does the Tech run dual RG6 into the house or just cap off the unused port?

3. If you were installing this where would you place the ground block? The cable feed thru would have to be located below the mount.

Tom
View attachment 92527
View attachment 92528
View attachment 92526

Hey Tom,
You are off to a good start. As Chip correctly stated you have exceeded requirements to install the dish. That bit about no custom mounts has to do with what either DirecTV or their Home Service Providers (HSPs) want to live with so not to worry about that.

Regarding the grounding you are really talking about two things. What is wanted is a ground block within about ten feet of the electrical bond for your building and likewise within about ten feet of where the cable enters the building. Probably this will be exactly where your existing system is run and you can use all that existing cable if you want.

Actually you could accomplish what you want by just changing the LNB on the existing dish. That back bonding is expensive and for the small dish application not worth it. The sat line from the dish has a light (16ga I think) ground line bonded to it and that is connected to the dish at one end and the ground block at the other. Part of the ground wire idea is to not introduce stray voltage (nearby lightning) into the occupied area of the building so the ground wire stays either outside or can be run in an unoccupied basement / crawl space to the ground block at the electrical bond.

You will only need one of the two RG6 lines but mark the one that stays in service. Put a barrel connector with electrolyte grease on end fittings of the other line as a spare.

Is the dish you are working on at the same location as the one currently in service? Can't tell from the pics.

Joe

 

[raoul5788]

Check the first picture Joe, you can see the Phase III dish off to the right.

 

[Tom J]

I spent A LOT of time determining where the studs and rim joists were. I then laid the whole thing out horizontally, clamping it to my kitchen table and transferred the dimensions to the wall using levels. I hoped that I would at least be close when it was assembled. I was very surprised when the bubble was dead on when I tightened it down. Luck. This is actually the second monopole base I made. the first one didn't turn out so good. I used galvanized carriage bolts installed in reverse with the bolts on the outside. Rookie mistake. they pulled right through that soft wood when tightened down. That's when I got interested in the SPIG and the approved methods of attachment. The second mistake I made was that I had the long monopole on top and didn’t realize that it interfered with the AZ/EL adjustments until I fully assembled the dish. Live and learn.

 

[raoul5788]

I assume the bottom lag screws on the base also go into the rim joist of the second floor, yes?

 

[dfergie]

Nice job! I have Masonite on the side of my house and ended up mounting a 2x12 to the side of my house, then the Slimline to it and haven't had problems since...

 

[Tom J]

The title of this photo is "2004 "temporary" install with invisible ground"

 

[Tom J]

I assume the bottom lag screws on the base also go into the rim joist of the second floor, yes?

Either the rim joist or the top plate above the studs. It's solid.

 

[Joe Diamond]

Check the first picture Joe, you can see the Phase III dish off to the right.

Chip,
Missed that..............and the original installation is probably incorrect and maybe dangerous. Tom has done a good job with the dish mount. The Phase III mast is 1.66 and the Slimline or SWM use the 2.0 mast.

Still the unknown is where the electric box & ground bond for the building is?

Tom,............where is your breaker box? Somehow, if you want to ground that sucker the cable with the ground wire attached must proceed to the vacinity of the ground bond AND THEN enter the building.

Could you show a plan view of the structure?

Joe

 

[Broe67]

As for the grounding, the guidelines for grounding telecommunications, Satellite, CATv, etc, are as follows in the link: http://ecmweb.com/code-basics/tune-requirements-art-820 http://ecmweb.com/code-basics/prevent-shocks-your-communications

 

[Joe Diamond]

As for the grounding, the guidelines for grounding telecommunications, Satellite, CATv, etc, are as follows in the link: http://ecmweb.com/code-basics/tune-requirements-art-820 http://ecmweb.com/code-basics/prevent-shocks-your-communications

Broe,
Good one! It is because of this code that Directv customers living in apartments should not be installed. In this example Tom or others ran the sat cable directly in a window with no ground block. We don't know where the ground bond is located(yet). Above I mentioned the grounding requirement has been on a don't ask and don't tell basis.If a tech reports the installation is impossible for grounding reasons another less concerned tech has been dispatched.

Tom is speaking of back bonding, which is a correct practice.We will see how expensive it is. In any case apartment managers usually won't allow it. In some areas ground rods are driven by electricians with an electric permit & and inspection; just isn't done!

Good one!

Joe

 

[Hutch1814]

The mount would be doable for me but some MAY have you sign off on it as a custom install to keep the liability off them but I don't see a tech refusing the job because of it but the ground HAS to either be grounded to the HOME electrical or not grounded at all due to Directv's guidelines so the tech may have you sign off on that too but you can always reconnect the ground after he leaves for peace of mind. I'm not sure what all has been said in the thread already (had a few drinks already and got tired of scrolling, yes, lazy I know) but great job! Looks good!!

 

[Claude Greiner]

Wow, I'm impressed. Install looks awesome

 

[Tom J]

...Still the unknown is where the electric box & ground bond for the building is?

Tom,............where is your breaker box? Somehow, if you want to ground that sucker the cable with the ground wire attached must proceed to the vacinity of the ground bond AND THEN enter the building.

Could you show a plan view of the structure?

Joe

My understanding is that back-bonding or a supplemental ground is my only choice here. The wall that this is mounted on is the garage and there isn't an existing (exposed) grounding source within 20'

The service ground is original, 1976


Joe, I assumed the ground block would be located up near the dish and ONLY the #10 ground wire would come down to the ground rod. Is that not the case?

 

[Tom J]

As for the grounding, the guidelines for grounding telecommunications, Satellite, CATv, etc, are as follows in the link: http://ecmweb.com/code-basics/tune-requirements-art-820 http://ecmweb.com/code-basics/prevent-shocks-your-communications

EXCELLENT info, thanks.

Broe,
...Tom is speaking of back bonding, which is a correct practice.We will see how expensive it is… Joe

Yikes, $76 for 80’ of #6 stranded THHN and $12 for the 8’ rod and clamp.

The mount would be doable for me but some MAY have you sign off on it as a custom install to keep the liability off them but I don't see a tech refusing the job because of it ...

Good to hear. But doesn’t a custom install cost more?

 

[Tom J]

I understand the reason for a service loop at the LNB. Are either of these methods acceptable? About the right size?

 

[raoul5788]

I would think the first one is acceptable, but the second looks much better.

 

[Hutch1814]

Custom was a bad choice of wording. More like a customer install and just having you sign off. The custom install charges vary but only implies if the tech does the work


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