BTW I am talking about the network making sure the commercial's audio level is the same as the program's by adjusting the commercial's audio, NOT the entire channel's just the way they did for analog.
Well, Tony, if you really did know more about this than I thought you would understand that the issues of volume differences in a dolby digital mux are completely different than what we had to deal with in the analog world. The solution is NOT permit 2.0 produced commercials to auto switch the output in the final encoder but to lock the output to full DD5.1. Once this is done in the final encoding step in the chain, the 2.0 spots will be at the same volume level as the DD5.1 program (on dd5.1 capable receivers, and with dd2.0 only receiving equipment or straight analog equipment ( including older mts stereo) the sound would all be at the same level. Once this is done in the manual setup of the encoder ( at Dish Network in this case) then and only then can we further maintain perceived loudness by compressor level limiting. The real difficulty with this is not the technical issue as that is straight forward. But the real issue is getting the engineers to change how they have the encoder configured. For their tunnel vision way of thinking, setting things to "auto" was just easier but it has generated these problems. Setting up the encoder for manual setup is more difficult initially, but once done will resolve the volume jumps for 2.0.
Your scenario of too low a volume is possible but the program arrangement is unlikely. This scenario would happen if they continue to keep the current auto switch and then on a DD5.1 channel, air programs that are produced with only DD2.0 soundtrack and then at commercial break, all spots be DD5.1. NOW, the viewer would adjust the audio in his receiver to comfortable levels on DD2.0 and when the DD5.1 commercials would hit, the level would be quieter by 6-9 db. Yes, I agree that advertisers would complain but this is not happening because the unlikely scenario that a channel would go the expense to add higher encoder to air non-5.1 programming.
IT is also a highly unlikely scenario that to save the engineer's work load to reprogram the encoder that instead all commercials would be re edited to adjust volume levels to match each other according to some standard that doesn't exist today. There is a better chance that the network and MSO require all produced spots to be DD5.1 capable. Recall I originally suggested this as one solution but I recognize that this too, is a really difficult task to achieve,
Tony- years ago I went through an issue like this with DirecTV. They had the older encoders set to encode the DD5.1 channels to output FL, FR and real center. Actually there exists a rear center channel in discrete form but this is no longer a standard, hasn't been for about 15 years. In some, not all receivers, when the decoder sees this combination of meta data it will interpret this to a FL and FR discrete channel but since there is no center rear, the audio will be lost. So where did that center rear come from? It was triggered from the program's front center channel! You can guess what happens in this situation. The home viewer with a DD5.1 receiver would hear no dialog at all as the DD5.1 decoder is discrete and most dialog was edited to front center except in special far left or far right location of sound source. For about a month DirecTV had no dialog on their new DD5.1 capable channels. I issued a complaint with Castle Rock uplink center but did not know at the time that all uplink programming for DD5.1 was being run from LA center. The Castle Rock tried to get the issue fixed but being internally competitive, were told to F-O! and mind their own business. Next Dolby was alerted to this and verified the problem and tried to contact D* in LA center with the fix and Dolby was told to FO. Eventually, the Ahole who was fighting the change, I understand got fired and Dolby entered and fixed the problem. You might be wondering, didn't D* hear the difference? I would think so but, I discovered, back then they had NO monitoring of their downlink for DD5.1 in the center. All they heard was a DD2.0 mts sound in their headphones from the uplink bus. Hard to believe but it was true. D* had no way of hearing what we were hearing at home! MY point is that in many of these cases, the average consumer rightfully responded as you did with "Just fix it!" My house is being rocked off the foundation etc. Unfortunately, as we found out with the Dish software fix, it doesn't work.
I was watching TLC HD today and it was in DD5.1 and then the break came and many commercials were in DD5.1 and all the same sound level. I thought, hey, maybe they finally fixed this in the encoder. But then my hopes sank because I was blown out of my seat with the next commercial which was the Hughesnet spot. I looked over at the meta data indicator and yep! sure enough it was a DD2.0 spot. I let the loud volume remain and the next spot was back to DD5.1 and the volume returned to normal. On this channel at this time most of the spots were produced with DD5.1 so the volume remained constant. More often, like on CNBC HD ( which I watch a lot ) the spots are mostly DD2.0 so I have to adjust for this often.
Tony- I do respect that you don't care about the technical reasons, and maybe you do know about the encoder setup procedures, but as an engineer yourself you do recognize that if you know the root cause of a problem it is important to communicate that to the people who speak that language and are in a position to do something about it. I know the TSR's here are not in that position, but they are the message boys, in a position to relate the problems, hopefully with a little better understanding as a result of the technical side of this thread, to those who can make a difference. As I stated before, this thread is not my first nor only dealing with the problem but rather one
more channel to strike up a "technical" dialog. I haven't bothered to complain through the normal phone call in because those CSR's only know how to read out of a play guide, you know, have you rebooted your DVR? finally, we'll send you a replacement DVR which is not going to fix anything. On issues like this they are just not equipped to deal with the problem of how their engineers programmed the setup in the encoder.
One more thing, the Dolby people at CES are not the ones to talk to about this. I have tried and thy just don't understand the broadcast side of their company and its products. The Dolby engineers who really know about their encoders and decoders are at NAB. Since retiring, I no longer attend NAB.
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