TiVo vs Echostar lawsuit

[dendavis]

Pardon me if I missed this elsewhere on the site. I first spotted a small note in the business section of my local newspaper, and expected this would be all over the Forum today. Having Googled it, I found this reference to the decision, which, although it sounds bad, will be appealed, according to Echostar.

http://blogs.chron.com/techblog/archives/2006/08/court_puts_the.html

 

[Juan]

umm thats from 2006

 

[schneid]

A Texas Federal Appeals Court blocked the injunction. Nothing appears to have happened since then.

An aside. I read DirecTV is going back to TiVo software in January. One reason I left DirecTV was their dumping of TiVo boxes. It is going be an interesting six months of Star Wars.

 

[Hall]

Your local newspaper is right on top of things ! As noted, "August 18, 2006".

 

[bidger`]

An aside. I read DirecTV is going back to TiVo software in January.

You read wrong. TiVo is doing an update to existing DIRECTV with TiVo boxes. They're not releasing new ones. TiVo has never left DIRECTV and they have an agreement in place for maintenance of boxes until Feb. 2010. The newer MPEG 4 HD programming can't be viewed on a TiVo box, only on MPEG 4-capable equipment.

 

[meStevo]

Next week in that paper: "DirecTV announces 100 HD channels!"

 

[DishSubLA]

I believe the original poster was referring to the results of the latest review made by the US Patent Office upholding only a few of and rejecting most of Tivo's claims against Echostar. I hope the following link to the article works. Scroll down to the header titled "Tivo Patent Ruling":

Inside Bay Area - Yahoo video site

 

[David_Levin]

Interesting. Let's post the Paragraph to make it easier:

Inside Bay Area - Yahoo video site

TiVo patent ruling

Alviso-based TiVo Inc. lost part and won part of a regulatory review of a DVR patent at the center of its lawsuit against EchoStar Communications Corp. The U.S. Patent and Trademark Office rejected aspects of the patent that covered hardware for recording movies and television shows, while upholding parts that cover software to run the system. The decision, dated Monday, is subject to review by a board within the agency. TiVo said the patent office decision won't affect the jury verdict that TiVo won against EchoStar. The jury said nine elements, or claims, of the patent were infringed. Of those, the patent office confirmed two. TiVo General Counsel Matt Zinn said that TiVo emerges as the winner because all that's needed in patent law is for one claim to be infringed.

So they say this doesn't effect the lawsuit. E* will still have to pay. But, if the basics of TV recording have been thrown out it may be much easier for E* to mod the software and avoid what's left of the TiVo patent.

This will avoid future payments to TiVo (and could hurt them greatly in the long run).

 

[MikeD-C05]

I just hope we don't lose the ability to do what we have always done with the 622s up to now. Meaning that the changes to the software would be internal and the public would see no differences in the way it runs now.

 

[crappieguy]

Am I wrong on this or Wasnt the 7100 "joint venture between echo and Microsoft" built before a TIVO... ??
My Bad TIvo was envisioned in 1997 and echo built a 7100 in 1999.

 

[schneid]

You read wrong. TiVo is doing an update to existing DIRECTV with TiVo boxes. They're not releasing new ones. TiVo has never left DIRECTV and they have an agreement in place for maintenance of boxes until Feb. 2010. The newer MPEG 4 HD programming can't be viewed on a TiVo box, only on MPEG 4-capable equipment.

DirecTV stopped using "genuine" TiVo in new boxes a while back. That's why TiVo DirecTV HD boxes are selling for $1000 - $2000 even though they don't support things like MPEG 4. It appears they have re-thought the decision and are going back to TiVo in January. Maybe losing 10 year customers like me got their attention.

 

[Bijou Media]

DirecTV stopped using "genuine" TiVo in new boxes a while back. That's why TiVo DirecTV HD boxes are selling for $1000 - $2000 even though they don't support things like MPEG 4. It appears they have re-thought the decision and are going back to TiVo in January. Maybe losing 10 year customers like me got their attention.

That was Murdoc trying to save a buck, another one of his brilliant (sarcasm)moves!

 

[Jim5506]

Hmm... that's interesting news, especially in the light of TiVo's newest iterations not having inputs for satellite boxes or HDTV boxes. Would be a BIG turn-around.

 

[dendavis]

I believe the original poster was referring to the results of the latest review made by the US Patent Office upholding only a few of and rejecting most of Tivo's claims against Echostar. I hope the following link to the article works. Scroll down to the header titled "Tivo Patent Ruling":

Inside Bay Area - Yahoo video site

That is exactly what I intended to state, I thank you for clarifying it for the Forum

 

[bidger`]

DirecTV stopped using "genuine" TiVo in new boxes a while back. That's why TiVo DirecTV HD boxes are selling for $1000 - $2000 even though they don't support things like MPEG 4. It appears they have re-thought the decision and are going back to TiVo in January. Maybe losing 10 year customers like me got their attention.

Where's your source for this info? The official announcement of a software upgrade to existing Series 2 DIRECTV with TiVo boxes is on the DIRECTV website: DirecTV - Investor Relations - News Release There is no mention made of a new TiVo box for MPEG 4 DIRECTV feeds.

As a matter of fact, there's a thread started by Brewer4 here about the fact that the HR10-250s (TiVo) not being able to receive MPEG 4 channels: http://www.satelliteguys.us/directv...rectv-tivo-hd-dvrs-cant-get-new-channels.html

So, again, where's your info about a MPEG 4-capable TiVo?

 

[Juan]

Where's your source for this info? The official announcement of a software upgrade to existing Series 2 DIRECTV with TiVo boxes is on the DIRECTV website: DirecTV - Investor Relations - News Release There is no mention made of a new TiVo box for MPEG 4 DIRECTV feeds.

As a matter of fact, there's a thread started by Brewer4 here about the fact that the HR10-250s (TiVo) not being able to receive MPEG 4 channels: http://www.satelliteguys.us/directv...rectv-tivo-hd-dvrs-cant-get-new-channels.html

So, again, where's your info about a MPEG 4-capable TiVo?

HD TiVo Series 3 @ CES | PVRblog

 

[bidger`]

Juan, here's the official page for the new S3 TiVo HD: TiVo | TiVo HD

Scroll down to the bottom of that page and you will see right below the asterisk (*) the following sentence:
"TiVo HD and TiVo Series3 HD DO NOT support satellite service."

 

[schneid]

Wahat I said was (or meant to say)

Current DTV HD DVRs (HR20) are not TiVo.

Genuine TiVo (HR10-250) "refurbished" boxes are expensive as there are no more. If you have one, it is still supported.

Cheapest HR10-250 available at Weaknees (but they go all the way up to $2399.00):

COMPLETE DirecTV HR10-250 HD TiVo
30 Hours of HD Recording Time, 200 Hours of SD Recording Time. Six Months Parts and Labor warranty from weaKnees. Refurbished.
$1199.00 - IN STOCK! FREE SHIPPING!*

This says it all best from wired: ( Wired Blogs: Gadget Lab ) :

"In 2003, Rupert Murdoch acquired DirecTV. His first action was to destroy the relationship between DirecTV and TiVo by giving his NDS subsidiary an impossible task -- copy the TiVo in 18 months and make it the de facto DVR for DirecTV.
They did it, albeit missing a few release dates, and it STINKS. It's quirky, buggy, and has none of the user interface innovations of the TiVo. Meanwhile, TiVo has made huge leaps in functionality, allowing shows to be played on your PC, pictures, mp3s, and videos from your PC to be played on TiVo, networking between TiVos to allow shows to be watched remotely, and remote scheduling. The DirecTV DVR eschews any networking with household PCs or other devices.
And last fall, the ill-advised mission of trying to clone TiVo was repeated with the High Definition DVR. It requires frequent reboots and the interface is quirky at best. Meanwhile, the now unsupported TiVo-developed HDTV DirecTV DVR (HR10-250) has been left out in the cold, with access to DirecTV's new HDTV programming cut off as this material is broadcast in MPEG-4 (which the TiVo cannot play back).
All this because Rupert Murdoch considers it life-or-death to "own" the entire physical plant, from the satellites down to every single box that picks up a signal. Ask any Australian about Rupert Murdoch and you'll get a story about how he has kept television technology firmly in the dark ages all to protect the almighty dollar. Murdoch wanted that extra $1 per customer that they'd been paying to TiVo bad!
And then the unthinkable happened. Echostar (Dish Network) lost their patent case against TiVo. They were found to have violated virtually every DVR patent in TiVo's portfolio. Echostar quickly offered a monstrous settlement and DirecTV suddenly renewed their soon-to-expire contract with TiVo.
End result? DirecTV wasted 3 years and millions of dollars developing off-brand TiVos that nobody wants. And now they are beholden to TiVo forever because their DVR will invariably be found to be a TiVo clone in any patent lawsuit. So they're stuck with TiVo whether they want it or not! The huge wave of negativity towards the TiVo clones that DirecTV has foisted upon us readily bubble to the surface at DBSTalk, the home of DirecTV's DVR public beta test program (the public are the beta testers!).
So what does this news article indicate? Since Rupert Murdoch has let go of DirecTV, I believe cooler heads have prevailed at DirecTV and the flames of the smouldering relationship between itself and TiVo are now being fanned. I anxiously await the announcement of an MPEG-4 compatible TiVo-developed DirecTV DVR with all the innovations TiVo has adopted in the last 3 years (and which have not been available to DirecTV customers).
One can only hope."

I read DirecTV has contracted with TiVo again beginning in January DTV boxes will have TiVo software. Star Wars will be fun to watch over the next six months. It appears we forgotten consumers/end-users might be the victors for once.

 

[Aridon]

Current DTV HD DVRs (HR20) are not TiVo.

Genuine TiVo (HR10-250) "refurbished" boxes are expensive as there are no more. If you have one, it is still supported.

Cheapest HR10-250 available at Weaknees (but they go all the way up to $2399.00):

COMPLETE DirecTV HR10-250 HD TiVo
30 Hours of HD Recording Time, 200 Hours of SD Recording Time. Six Months Parts and Labor warranty from weaKnees. Refurbished.
$1199.00 - IN STOCK! FREE SHIPPING!*

This says it all best from wired: ( Wired Blogs: Gadget Lab ) :

"In 2003, Rupert Murdoch acquired DirecTV. His first action was to destroy the relationship between DirecTV and TiVo by giving his NDS subsidiary an impossible task -- copy the TiVo in 18 months and make it the de facto DVR for DirecTV.
They did it, albeit missing a few release dates, and it STINKS. It's quirky, buggy, and has none of the user interface innovations of the TiVo. Meanwhile, TiVo has made huge leaps in functionality, allowing shows to be played on your PC, pictures, mp3s, and videos from your PC to be played on TiVo, networking between TiVos to allow shows to be watched remotely, and remote scheduling. The DirecTV DVR eschews any networking with household PCs or other devices.
And last fall, the ill-advised mission of trying to clone TiVo was repeated with the High Definition DVR. It requires frequent reboots and the interface is quirky at best. Meanwhile, the now unsupported TiVo-developed HDTV DirecTV DVR (HR10-250) has been left out in the cold, with access to DirecTV's new HDTV programming cut off as this material is broadcast in MPEG-4 (which the TiVo cannot play back).
All this because Rupert Murdoch considers it life-or-death to "own" the entire physical plant, from the satellites down to every single box that picks up a signal. Ask any Australian about Rupert Murdoch and you'll get a story about how he has kept television technology firmly in the dark ages all to protect the almighty dollar. Murdoch wanted that extra $1 per customer that they'd been paying to TiVo bad!
And then the unthinkable happened. Echostar (Dish Network) lost their patent case against TiVo. They were found to have violated virtually every DVR patent in TiVo's portfolio. Echostar quickly offered a monstrous settlement and DirecTV suddenly renewed their soon-to-expire contract with TiVo.
End result? DirecTV wasted 3 years and millions of dollars developing off-brand TiVos that nobody wants. And now they are beholden to TiVo forever because their DVR will invariably be found to be a TiVo clone in any patent lawsuit. So they're stuck with TiVo whether they want it or not! The huge wave of negativity towards the TiVo clones that DirecTV has foisted upon us readily bubble to the surface at DBSTalk, the home of DirecTV's DVR public beta test program (the public are the beta testers!).
So what does this news article indicate? Since Rupert Murdoch has let go of DirecTV, I believe cooler heads have prevailed at DirecTV and the flames of the smouldering relationship between itself and TiVo are now being fanned. I anxiously await the announcement of an MPEG-4 compatible TiVo-developed DirecTV DVR with all the innovations TiVo has adopted in the last 3 years (and which have not been available to DirecTV customers).
One can only hope."

I read DirecTV has contracted with TiVo again beginning in January DTV boxes will have TiVo software. Star Wars will be fun to watch over the next six months. It appears we forgotten consumers/end-users might be the victors for once.

I'm not a Direct Sub but I've played with the Hr20 and its not nearly as bad any more as your stating. Its actually a pretty solid machine although not as good as my 622 or my original Tivos its very close now.

That said the reason Direct dumped Tivo is because the relationship wasn't beneficial and we are starting to see this with court rulings the majority of Tivo patents invalid. Tivo has some great software but its not the end all be all of DVRs and I don't miss my Tivo one bit with my 622.

I can't blame direct, they wanted to do what dish is already doing. Now that the kinks are mostly worked out of the system what really is left for them to sped money on. Software upgrades are nearly never needed and really only need a few code monkey's and some internal testing. Larger drives are plug and play for the most part. Once they get it running there really isn't much as far as costs go. Sure they have to replace some boxes but they were doing that with Tivo anyways so whats the difference? They already make receivers its no like Tivo was making everything for them so the costs probably didn't justify keeping Tivo around.

 

[schneid]

Too Little, Too Late

for me.