TIVO vs E*

[Scott Greczkowski]

No I don't think that the VIP receivers should come with Tivo by default, but the software should be available as an option for those who love TIVO.

Fromw what I am hearing the new DirecTV Box with Tivo is going to be a standard receiver which can be upgraded with Tivo software on top of the DirecTV software already on the box.

This will allow them to give customers what they want. There is money to be made here. I don't see why they are leaving all this money on the table.

 

[Hall]

...I really don't understand why so many of you get your jollies over seeing fellow satelliteguy brothers lose DVR services.

There's only a few of "those" and they generally post in NO threads except for this one.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

OMG, are you kidding me? I don't know why I am so surprised about your continuing to spout nonsense like this. I shouldn't be, because you have been wrong about every legal reference you have made in this case so far. I just thought since the ruling just yesterday so clearly pointed out how wrong you have continued to be, you might feel some shame and stop with the inaccuracies. Judge Folsom has so far made the same decisions here as he made in Paice. $1.25/box/month was the jury rate and covers the time period during the stay. It does not cover the enhanced damages that will be in place from 4/08 until now, which is what was being discussed. The enhanced damages, for continued post-judgement infringement, will likely be as in Paice as well, which was 4 times the jury rate. Now please, please, please, check your facts twice before posting. We'd all appreciate it.

Wow, for a brand new member, you know an awful lot about what has gone on in this thread.

Welcome to SatelliteGuys, but if you are here to troll and incite, you will be gone before you know what hit you.

 

[Hall]

No I don't think that the VIP receivers should come with Tivo by default, but the software should be available as an option for those who love TIVO.

This will allow them to give customers what they want. There is money to be made here.

1) TiVo would never allow it. They'd want all or nothing. If it's an "option", they have no guarantees of revenue.

2) What percentage of customers would pay for this option ? I say less than 1%. Remember, 90+ % of people use any "tool" just as it's shipped and don't have a clue how to change a default setting to something else, let alone entirely replace the complete UI. Does that appeal to TiVo ? Hell no.

 

[rtmoore4]

Wow, for a brand new member, you know an awful lot about what has gone on in this thread.

Welcome to SatelliteGuys, but if you are here to troll and incite, you will be gone before you know what hit you.

Just because I haven't posted before, doesn't mean I haven't been following the thread very closely, but I understand what you're saying. Trust me, I'm not here to troll, but merely to keep the record straight. I probably could have let someone else point it out, but I just couldn't let that one go by.

 

[kstuart]

No I don't think that the VIP receivers should come with Tivo by default, but the software should be available as an option for those who love TIVO.

I've owned a TiVo and there is nothing particularly unusual about it relative to any other recent DVR.

People who started with a TiVo associated with it their relief at being able to watch TV on their own schedule, and the name "TiVo" has become associated with it - various media people who do not own a TiVo use the word "TiVo" instead of the word "DVR".

---

More importantly, does anyone have any idea how the number of installed 522s and 625s compares to the 192,000 exceptions allowed ?

Scott: Have you asked a contact when we can expect a Dish Network statement ?

 

[jacmyoung]

OMG, are you kidding me? I don't know why I am so surprised about your continuing to spout nonsense like this. I shouldn't be, because you have been wrong about every legal reference you have made in this case so far. I just thought since the ruling just yesterday so clearly pointed out how wrong you have continued to be, you might feel some shame and stop with the inaccuracies. Judge Folsom has so far made the same decisions here as he made in Paice. $1.25/box/month was the jury rate and covers the time period during the stay. It does not cover the enhanced damages that will be in place from 4/08 until now, which is what was being discussed. The enhanced damages, for continued post-judgement infringement, will likely be as in Paice as well, which was 4 times the jury rate. Now please, please, please, check your facts twice before posting. We'd all appreciate it.

One gone one came right up

Yes the $1.25 was the jury rate, TiVo argued for $2.25, E* argued for $1.00, judge give TiVo the same rate jury gave them, $1.25. There is no such thing as royalty rates going up and down at wish, it has to be consistent with reasonable modification.

Damages can change a lot, but will never be 4 times than before. Even in the most extreme cases the court is allowed to triple the damages, but not more.

Which is why it is important to see if the appeals court will stay the order or not.

 

[shy]

I think dish new this was coming that’s why they keep raising the prices

 

[CuriousMark]

No I don't think that the VIP receivers should come with Tivo by default, but the software should be available as an option for those who love TIVO.

Fromw what I am hearing the new DirecTV Box with Tivo is going to be a standard receiver which can be upgraded with Tivo software on top of the DirecTV software already on the box.

This will allow them to give customers what they want. There is money to be made here. I don't see why they are leaving all this money on the table.

Don't confuse the TiVo User Interface (UI) with the TiVo IP covered by this and other patents. If Dish wants to license the technology, they aren't necessarily going to be required to also use the UI.

My understanding is that the DTV box will not be a download of TiVo software. The hardware may be the same, but users will get the box with one software or another when the box is delivered and it will not be a simple switchover via download. That might have changed since I checked on this last fall, but I have seen nothing to indicate a change.

I agree with the money to be made comment.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Scott: Have you asked a contact when we can expect a Dish Network statement ?

The statement from Dish was posted last night in this thread.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Just because I haven't posted before, doesn't mean I haven't been following the thread very closely, but I understand what you're saying. Trust me, I'm not here to troll, but merely to keep the record straight. I probably could have let someone else point it out, but I just couldn't let that one go by.

Fair enough. to SatelliteGuys.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

I think dish new this was coming that’s why they keep raising the prices

Dish has been raising prices since they went into business.

 

[nelson61]

No I don't think that the VIP receivers should come with Tivo by default, but the software should be available as an option for those who love TIVO.

Fromw what I am hearing the new DirecTV Box with Tivo is going to be a standard receiver which can be upgraded with Tivo software on top of the DirecTV software already on the box.

This will allow them to give customers what they want. There is money to be made here. I don't see why they are leaving all this money on the table.

You are 110 percent correct. I am absolutely baffled as to why Dish would want bad publicity to scare current or potential customers away. Pay a little and be able to justifiably advertise that you have the best of either world. Marketing 101.

 

[TheForce]

No I don't think that the VIP receivers should come with Tivo by default, but the software should be available as an option for those who love TIVO.

Fromw what I am hearing the new DirecTV Box with Tivo is going to be a standard receiver which can be upgraded with Tivo software on top of the DirecTV software already on the box.

This will allow them to give customers what they want. There is money to be made here. I don't see why they are leaving all this money on the table.

Choices! What a novel idea! But I agree with hall, TIVO would not be well served by allowing that to happen. The best solution to this whole mess is for Charlie to get Echostar to buy out TIVO, shut the litigious company down and then sell the best DVR to everyone, Comcast, DirecTV, and anyone else retail market. Echostar is in a perfect position to market the DVR big time. TIVO, by themselves is not.

 

[jacmyoung]

The statement from Dish was posted last night in this thread.

And they have no time to waste if they are to follow through with it

 

[wase4711]

might be a good time to buy some Uverse stock....

 

[DodgerKing]

No I don't think that the VIP receivers should come with Tivo by default, but the software should be available as an option for those who love TIVO.

Fromw what I am hearing the new DirecTV Box with Tivo is going to be a standard receiver which can be upgraded with Tivo software on top of the DirecTV software already on the box.

This will allow them to give customers what they want. There is money to be made here. I don't see why they are leaving all this money on the table.

So now we will have the worst of both DVRs. The bad hardware of the HRs and the bad interface of the TiVO.

 

[rtmoore4]

One gone one came right up

Yes the $1.25 was the jury rate, TiVo argued for $2.25, E* argued for $1.00, judge give TiVo the same rate jury gave them, $1.25. There is no such thing as royalty rates going up and down at wish, it has to be consistent with reasonable modification.

Damages can change a lot, but will never be 4 times than before. Even in the most extreme cases the court is allowed to triple the damages, but not more.

Which is why it is important to see if the appeals court will stay the order or not.

Wow, you just can't help it can you? How about you go READ the Paice decision and then talk? Here's a link for you, or anyone else you has the time. It turns out I can't post that link until after this post, as I have to have 3 posts. It will follow immediately. Jury rate in Paice was $25. Post-judgement rate was $98. $98 is 3.92 times $25. For the math challenged, that is more than triple. FYI, for those who are interested, the judge is not bound by the jury rate for post-judgement or even triple. The judge must make a determination, based on the changed legal footing of the situation and determine a fair rate. Amado came up with 3X, Paice was 4X, TiVo could be 5X. We just don't know at this point, but somewhere between 3X and 4X is a reasonable assumption, based on recent legal precedent. This will happen, and Charlie will be lucky to get an ongoing royalty agreement with TiVo for anything even close to $3/box/month (2X) on every DVR he owns at this point. He could have easily gotten $1.50/box/month 4 years ago, but he chose the dark side, so it's going to cost him now.

 

[Ken F]

1) TiVo would never allow it. They'd want all or nothing. If it's an "option", they have no guarantees of revenue.

2) What percentage of customers would pay for this option ? I say less than 1%. Remember, 90+ % of people use any "tool" just as it's shipped and don't have a clue how to change a default setting to something else, let alone entirely replace the complete UI. Does that appeal to TiVo ? Hell no.

Choices! What a novel idea! But I agree with hall, TIVO would not be well served by allowing that to happen. The best solution to this whole mess is for Charlie to get Echostar to buy out TIVO, shut the litigious company down and then sell the best DVR to everyone, Comcast, DirecTV, and anyone else retail market. Echostar is in a perfect position to market the DVR big time. TIVO, by themselves is not.

This is the agreement TiVo has in place with DirecTV. When the customer orders a next-generation DirecTV DVR, they'll be given the option to choose the DirecTV software or the TiVo software. DirecTV is expected to pay roughly $2/mo (out of its pocket) for any customer that wants the TiVo software, with no difference in monthly fees. It's unknown whether those who opt for the DirecTV software will be able to switch to the TiVo software, and if so, whether that will require a payment. We won't know anything for certain until the software is available next year.

DirecTV agreed to those [favorable] terms before the outcome of this case was known. I doubt Tivo would accept similar terms with Dish Network. If I were TiVo, I would seek at least $1.25/mo for every Dish Network DVR in service.

 

[rtmoore4]

Here is the link to Paice... [ame="http://www.scribd.com/doc/15794579/Paice-v-Toyota-Order-ED-Texas-April-17-2009"]Paice v. Toyota Order (E.D. Texas April 17, 2009)[/ame]