But if a stay is not granted, and later the court rules in Dish's favor, the damage has already been done by turning off the DVRs and probably causing a mass migration to DirecTV.
TIVO vs E*
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Can? I'm pretty sure the appeals court can take on a contempt case whenever the whim strikes them. I'm not aware of a law that tells them they can't hear particular contempt appeals.
...Whose miraculous DVR has abolutely nothing 'infringing' about it what-so-ever. Lol
Go figure...
And why wouldn't he call Dish, given the contacts that we have built with Dish Network. YOU are at SatelliteGuys.us; a website dedicated to information about SATELLITE TV sources, first and foremost. Or do you not ever venture outside of this thread?
Indeed, the forum this thread is in, is the premier information source anywhere about Dish Network. Half the time I think SatGuys knows more about what goes on at Dish Network than some of their executives do.
They have a license to infinge all they want from TiVo... Not to mention they bought replayTV just in case. It is the cable companies that have not signed TiVo agreements that have to worry next.
Define "license to infringe"...
Soundz to me like the rules are good for some, but not others....
Soundz to me like gangster politics...you want to be the king, you gotta take out the king...
D* DVRs stink, so why bother, E* DVRs are better than anything Tivo has ever offered and probably ever will...there you go...
An interesting argument here would be why the law does not apply to everyone. Especially to those who think the conversation begins and ends with the law and tend to forget what the law is all about...
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You made it sound like after 8/17/09 this appeal will resurface as if nothing had happened before. Unfortunately the parties had already filed their briefs on this appeal issue already, while these briefs were in response to the stay review, the merits of this E*'s appeal were one of the 4 items argued by both parties in relative details already:
1) Whether E* is very likely to succeed on merits with this appeal;
2) injury to E* without a stay;
3) injury to TiVo with a stay;
4) Public interest.
We shall see, but this time, whether the appeals court will continue the stay or not will depend mostly on if E* is very likely to succeed in its appeal on merits or not. Therefore if the stay is lifted, that indicates the appeals court sees E* unlikely to succeed on merits, conversely, if the stay holds, it is the appeals court saying E* is very likely to win on appeal.
The number 1) above, the merits of E*'s appeal are considered now by the appeals court to determine the stay issue. We just do not have a decision on the stay, at least not that we know of yet.
That is why the item 1) above is the most critical question the appeals court must answer before they decide to stay the order or not.
When a ruling from the district court is final, the Federal Circuit will have the jurisdiction over the review of an appeal of such ruling. It is their job, the Federal Circuit was created by the Congress to review all appeals in patent cases, among many other subject matters. I have used the term "the appeals court" losely.
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Quite possibly. However, if the appeals court does not grant a stay, it is likely because Dish's case does not appear strong at the outset, or that the balance of factors indicate the damage to TiVo would be worse if Dish loses.
This is a balancing act the appeals court probably analyzes for every appeal that comes in. So if the stay is lifted, it is also a good sign that most likely the appeal would also eventually not be ruled in Dish's favor. Conversely if the stay is upheld, then Dish is probably fairly likely to have the eventual ruling go their way.
The cases where the stay disagrees with the eventual outcome are less likely, but still possible. That is where the balance of factors tests help the court minimize the damage of having gotten the stay decision wrong. At least that is how I see it from a layman's perspective.
THAT I believe!
Actually it is also probably true of most CE vendor community sites.
I generally agree. As I understand it, if Dish has a strong chance of winning the appeal, then the question of which party is damaged most is less important. And if the judges decide that Dish has a lesser chance of winning then they will get a stay only if they can show that damage to them is far greater than TiVo.
Since this patent suit has been going on for years, and during this time Dish has gained subscribers while Tivo has lost them, I think the judges will give TiVo the nod as the most damaged party -- so far at least.
I'm sure that some here will argue that turning off 4 million DVRs if the stay is lifted will do more harm to Dish than TiVo. But I think TiVo has already suffered far more harm during the past few years.
So, IMHO Dish will have to show a strong likelihood of winning the appeal to keep the stay in place. But given their past losses they don't have much chance and the 30 day clock will start ticking again.
Please...not the 'poor little Tivo' bit again...this ain't 'poor little Tivo'...
There is no direct correlation between Dish gaining subs and Tivo loosing subs, considering that E* would be gaining subs as a TV provider whereas Tivo is strictly selling itself as an add-on bonus. Considering every TV provider offers a DVR of some kind, its more of a reflectiong of Tivo's poor business model and lack of a competitive product than anything else.
E*'s only chance of winning an appeal is to prove the ineptitude of the previous court, which shouldn't be to hard, except for the fact you need to prove this to another inept court...
Since they are both losing subs, then they both have a poor business model?
Since the appeal is going to be held, I doubt that the stay will be lifted. Unless they are looking to force this thing to end. DISH will never turn off those DVR's. DISH will not stop this madness until they are forced to.
Unfortunately the subs are always the losers.
Since the appeal is going to be held, I doubt that the stay will be lifted. Unless they are looking to force this thing to end. DISH will never turn off those DVR's. DISH will not stop this madness until they are forced to.
Unfortunately the subs are always the losers.
Good point...
So much for the 'poor little Tivo' argument.
Now switching the the "poor little dishnetwork argument.
The appeals at the Federal Circuit level are always going to be held/reviewed. There seems to be this notion that the Federal Circuit may refuse to hear an appeal of a lower court decision. I don't know where this idea is coming from.
The only thing unique about this Federal Circuit is after it rules on an appeal, if parties disagree and wish to have the Supreme Court further review the Federal Circuit's ruling, the SC is not obligated to review it, and in reality rarely reviews the Federal Circuit final rulings. And this is unique to this Federal Circuit BTW.
I read somewhere in the past decade the SC only reviewed 3 or 4 decisons related to patent cases from the Federal Circuit, reversing at least in part the Federal Circuit decisions, most visible is the Ebay desicion where the SC reversed the FC's that a permanent injunction should be automatic if infringement was found. In fact Judge Folsom was the first district court judge who applied such SC guidelines when he denied Paice's injunction request in the Paice v. Toyota case even though willful infringement was found by Toyota. The main reason was Paice was a patent troll, did not participate in the business of the invention.
For the vast majority of the patent cases, the Federal Circuit decisions are binding. But whether the lower court order should be stayed pending appeal by the Federal Circuit is another issue. It has nothing to do with whether the Federal Circuit should review an appeal or not, it always reviews an appeal from a district court decision, it is their job to do so.
The agreement here appears to be, if E* gets a stay pending appeal, that is an indication that the Federal Circuit agreed with E* that E* is very likely to succeed on merits in this appeal. This time around, other factors should not be in E*'s favor, only the merit factor.
I don't ave any inside contacts at Tivo. I know a few of the engineers there but no one on the exec side.
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