TiVo seeks halt to EchoStar’s digital video-recording business

[ralfyguy]

I tell you what: Personally I don't give a rats a$$ about patents and that kinda stuff. I signed up for service WITH DVR function. If this goes bad for E*, I'm outta here! Because the 18 month commitment isn't valid anymore, because I don't get the service I'm paying for. If they turn the DVR feature off, I'll send the damn 622 back and cancel. And I bet I'm not gonna be the only one. I am just a customer, and all of this is none of my business. I paid $299 upfront for a DVR, and in this case I'll lose that money, and that's already bad enough. And that's why I'll cancel then. There was just a trial about this a month or so back, now again. What a Kindergarten. I shoulda signed up with D* in the first place, or get the damn Cable here. I don't understand how this company survived that long.

 

[M Sparks]

i could of sworn somewhere there was a 7200 settlement dish barred from talking about it due to non disclosure agreementt but i know there was something where the 7100-7200 customers were at one time being offered $25 bill credit plus 8 ppv coupons or something very similar

* 7100 definately did not predate the TIVO. It was simply the first receiver that had the sat tuner built-in. That made it both cheaper and higher quality (picture-wise), because it didn't need an analog to digital converter.

* As far as I remember, ReplayTV DID predate the TIVO. I know I saw it first. Why aren't they suing?

*The 7100-7200 lawsuit was simply because it never really worked right. I don't think I ever got a $25 credit, but I did get a stack of PPV coupons.

*The only thing I can see that TIVO can lay any claim to is their interface. I don't care for TIVOs, but people that do like it swear by it. I don't see much similarity between TIVO's interface and any other DVR. If Echostar used Thumbs Up/Down buttons, recorded stuff you didn't ask for, or had those stupid TIVO sound effects, they'd have a legitimate complaint. True, DISH started using the word "Pass", but that's about it. TIVO fans love the interface...they just didn't manage to make enough people be loyal to it. They persisted in trying to sell an outdated standalone product, when they should have been making deals with cable-box makers, and selling their software and guide data service. If they had been doing their job, there would be a TIVO logo in the corner of my 942 EPG instead of a TV Guide logo

*As far as I'm concerned, ReplayTV had a more interesting interface anyway. (I never used one, so I don't know how well it worked.) It showed multiple custom "channels" in the EPG- "The Simpsons Channel", "The Spielberg Movie Channel", ect...whatever you wanted to define.

This is just a idiotic suit. They just CAN'T lay claim to the concept of the DVR-only the interface. There are simply too many different DVR manufacturers. DVRs have even replaced Time Lapse Tape machines in security systems.

 

[urnote96]

what about all the cable companys that offer the DVR service????

 

[belawrence]

no merit

Unless Tivo has a product that will let me record two HD satellite feeds and one HD OTA feed simultaneously while watching pre-recorded programs in two different rooms in my home, I don't really see them having a leg to stand on. BTW, I never became a fan of Tivo's Fisher-Price-like interface and thought ReplayTV blew it out of the water.

 

[M Sparks]

D* made a deal with Tivo to extend their contract. D* is still creating their own DVRs, but the deal extension is to allow support for current D* Tivos. The new deal also includes a clause that Tivo cannot sue D*. Smart on D*'s part if you ask me.

Here's what they really want...and it's a good idea. Echostar should be building DVRs with very basic interfaces (good enough for me as long as they work) AND offering TIVO based machines at a premium price for those who want them. (Or they could license the receiver technology to TIVO and let them build their own machines.) There are plenty of people willing to pay extra for TIVO technology, but not willing to switch Sat providers or mess around with an outdated standalone box.

The fact is, TIVO is the "Kleenex" of DVRs...everyone knows what a TIVO is. And a lot of people swear by them. A smart company would be able take advantage of that, instead of resorting to such desparate tactics.

 

[gdarwin]

Remember Charlie is a Poker player!

Bingo!!! Charlie and his legal staff will come up with something to totally squash this issue...

 

[Jeff_R]

I don't see how they can reasonably pursue an injunction that would affect HD DVR's since Tivo does not yet have an HD version on the market. I don't think the judge will act to screw the consumer in principal when there is no commerically available alternative for Dish to use.

Ah, but they do have an HD version. Sure, it's only for Directv, but will also work for OTA. So, legally speaking, they have a device to counter Dish's. Not that it's a practical argument for most of us to have (would I go to Directv just because they have the HD Tivo? No.).

Did Tivo partner with TVGuide or Comcast or Motorola for the 6412 series DVRs?

 

[webbydude]

how bout 5.99 license fee plus 6.99 activation fee both per month for every dish dvr out there ie 7100-622
that sounds fair to me

Of course THAT would sound fair to you. You're not a current Dish subscriber.

 

[DVDDAD]

I believe the 7100 and 7200 were out before Tivo even came along. Also the 7100 and 7200 were a partner with microsoft if I remember right. I think that is why they were excluded in the original lawsuit.

If I do remember correctly maybe that is part of the counter suit the Echo has against Tivo.

I think you may be right with the DirecTiVo, but not with the SA (Stand Alone) TiVo boxes. When I first looked into and purchased Satellite, Dish had the 7100 and TiVo had their SA boxes, but there were no DirecTiVo's out yet. That was the main reason for me chosing E* over D* at the time.

 

[Stargazer]

If Dish was forced to shut off all DVR receivers or the software on them then expect Dish to state that it is unfair that they have to shutoff their software/receivers but not other providers that have them.

Also Dish might actually see a loss in subscribers instead of a gain. Dish would have to pay them off or lose a LOT more than what the fees would be. If Dish tries to charge more for their DVR services then they will be higher priced.

 

[miguelaqui]

This is not hack talk, I learned this when I got a replacement 501.....

The DVR features might can be turned of through the authorization of the card on a 501. I only know this because, when I got a replacement 501, the DVR features would not work until it was authorized.

I remember readig somewhere that was one of the pricks of the yellow cards, beng able to kill the DVR features.

 

[herdfan]

Didn't DTV switch to another company for their DVRs? Is TIVO going after them?

No. D* cut a deal in their last agreement with TiVo that TiVo would not come after D* for patent infringement. So TiVo gets about $36M per year for 3 more years to look the other way.

D* pays TiVo around $1 per sub. So even if E* had to pay a royalty, it would be no where near the $12.95/mo that TiVo charges SA subs.

 

[Tele-TV]

If E* had a HD Tivo (TIVO Technology), I would probably jump ship to them. Or at least get their service in addition. Thanks for listening.

 

[ChetK]

If E* had a HD Tivo (TIVO Technology), I would probably jump ship to them. Or at least get their service in addition. Thanks for listening.

Why not jump now? The 622, in a lot of cases, is better than the Tivo. Once they get the bugs worked out, I'd much rather have the 622 than an HDTivo.

 

[riffjim4069]

If E* had a HD Tivo (TIVO Technology), I would probably jump ship to them. Or at least get their service in addition. Thanks for listening.

The ViP622 is a really slick box (as was the 942) and does just about everything the HD Tivo does...only much, much faster.

 

[Spin]

I think E* could pay tivo $1 per DVR royalty without passing it along to the customer. What exactly is the 5.99 (or is it 6.99?) DVR fee paying for?

 

[Nevada_MO_Guy]

NBR , 50x series, VOD features.

What cha talking about.

Checked the glossary.....I don't understand

 

[cjsmigelski]

NBR - Name Based Recording. 50x Series - Dish DVR 501, 508, & 510. VOD - Video on Demand.

 

[Nevada_MO_Guy]

HMM does tivo even MAKE mpeg 4 machine?? If not how could E* copy them?

The Tivo's Series 3 is due to come out this year......hmmmm good timing.

CJSMIGELSKI:
Thanks for the breakdown.

 

[Paul_Medenwaldt]

I tell you what: Personally I don't give a rats a$$ about patents and that kinda stuff

I'm behind Dish in this lawsuit. I'm sure sure of the exact legalities of the suit, but I'm sure if you were to invent product 'Widget1' and patened the idea and product and after your product was out for a while and someone came along and took and used your same idea and named it something different you would begin to care.

Paul