Tivo hearing today?

[Curtis0620]

You better hope so.

 

[ronjohn]

At first I believed that the Tivo patents were frivolous; for recording a program on a hard drive and then watching it. After reading more about the case, I think there are specific details of implementation.(How else can Dish change the programming of the DVRs and no longer violate the patent?) I have not read the patents fully because reading legal language in patents make my head hurt.

I have two major problems with technological patents:

Many technology patents are in my opinion frivolous. For example, Amazon's one-click shopping. If you want to allow a customer to click one button and order an item, you will have to; have the user's information stored in a database, retrieve it, and connect the item they want to order to the user's information. That is extremely obvious. Amazon made their patent so wide, that it is virtually impossible for any other website to allow a user to click one button to order an item. To me that is like getting a patent for making a tire round.

The other problem I have is that you have to rely on juries to determine whether or not a patent has been violated. I think that in the typical jury pool there are probably a great majority that would have to use an installer to install DSL, or use store installers to install HD tvs. Think about the guy in your neighborhood that calls to ask for help with his wireless network. Then think about that guy on a jury trying to; read a technical patent, decide if a chipset design violates that patent, and decide if the software code written for the chipset infringes on the language described in the patent. The GREAT majority of jurors will hear "blah blah blah.... He did it" and "blah blah blah... No I didn't"

 

[8bitbytes]

Why buy TiVo when E* has a design around? Once there is no contempt, TiVo will be worth very little.

1. The fine paid will not go waste.
2. E* will collect royalty payments from those with Tivo licenses.
3. Dish can improve their own interface and then replace Tivos with theirs.

Win, Win in my book.

 

[waltinvt]

Funny how the gloom and doomers don't read thoroughly.

Of course given Dish's track record of court losses, they'll probably need to start a new account right away and guess where that'll be coming from?

 

[VinceT3]

I'm surprised dish hasn't just called it a day and purchased tivo... they are currently 6 bux right now.. even at 15 (which would be extreme).. what would that be.. 1.5 billion (they have roughly 102 million shares out there)? Isn't that like 10 law suits from a reality? lol

 

[lakebum431]

I'm surprised dish hasn't just called it a day and purchased tivo... they are currently 6 bux right now.. even at 15 (which would be extreme).. what would that be.. 1.5 billion (they have roughly 102 million shares out there)? Isn't that like 10 law suits from a reality? lol

Wrong, it isn't just the stock that they would have to buy. There are SIGNIFICANT change in control provisions at Tivo as well as escalating cost for a hostile take over. The actual cost is quite a bit more than that.

 

[jacmyoung]

I'm surprised dish hasn't just called it a day and purchased tivo... they are currently 6 bux right now.. even at 15 (which would be extreme).. what would that be.. 1.5 billion (they have roughly 102 million shares out there)? Isn't that like 10 law suits from a reality? lol

And after a no contempt ruling, TiVo's price may go down to $4, and buying it now for $6 will be a big loss

 

[Curtis0620]

And after a no contempt ruling, TiVo's price may go down to $4, and buying it now for $6 will be a big loss

After a contempt ruling it will be over $8.00

 

[DishSatUser]

To me that is like getting a patent for making a tire round.

I was preparing to make some serious litigation attempts for $$$ from all the automakers when an actor for Geico's insurance commercials proved prior art with a stone wheel.

 

[Hall]

There are SIGNIFICANT change in control provisions at Tivo as well as escalating cost for a hostile take over.

That was put in place when TiVo was one of the only DVR options around. They no longer are, hence their value is diminished. I suspect that TiVo's board would not invoke their poison pill in the event of a takeover. Easy solution for Dish is to simply make an offer directly to TiVo's board.

 

[jmd102354]

Didn't they say basically the same thing during the original trial?

I believe you are right !

 

[lakebum431]

That was put in place when TiVo was one of the only DVR options around. They no longer are, hence their value is diminished. I suspect that TiVo's board would not invoke their poison pill in the event of a takeover. Easy solution for Dish is to simply make an offer directly to TiVo's board.

Actually they are still in place and Tivo even lists it as a risk factor in their latest Form 10-K (filed April 15, 2008):

Our Certificate of Incorporation, Bylaws, Rights Agreement and Delaware law could discourage a third party from acquiring us and consequently decrease the market value of our common stock.

In the future, we could become the subject of an unsolicited attempted takeover of our company. Although an unsolicited takeover could be in the best interests of our stockholders, certain provisions of Delaware law, our organizational documents and our Rights Agreement could be impediments to such a takeover.

We are subject to the provisions of Section 203 of the Delaware General Corporation Law, an anti-takeover law. In general, the statute prohibits a publicly held Delaware corporation from engaging in a business combination with an interested stockholder for a period of three years after the date of the transaction in which the person became an interested stockholder, unless the business combination is approved in a prescribed manner. Our Amended and Restated Certificate of Incorporation and Amended and Restated Bylaws also require that any action required or permitted to be taken by our stockholders must be effected at a duly called annual or special meeting of the stockholders and may not be effected by a consent in writing. In addition, special meetings of our stockholders may be called only by a majority of the total number of authorized directors, the chairman of the board, our chief executive officer or the holders of 50% or more of our common stock. Our Amended and Restated Certificate of Incorporation and Amended and Restated Bylaws also provide that directors may be removed only for cause by a vote of a majority of the stockholders and that vacancies on the Board of Directors created either by resignation, death, disqualification, removal or by an increase in the size of the Board of Directors may be filled by a majority of the directors in office, although less than a quorum. Our Amended and Restated Certificate of Incorporation also provides for a classified Board of Directors and specifies that the authorized number of directors may be changed only by resolution of the Board of Directors.

On January 9, 2001, our Board of Directors adopted a Rights Agreement. Our Rights Agreement was last amended on April 12, 2006. Each share of our common stock has attached to it a right to purchase one one-hundredth of a share of our Series B Junior Participating Preferred Stock at a price of $60 per one one-hundredth of a preferred share. Subject to limited exceptions, the rights will become exercisable following the tenth day after a person or group announces the acquisition of 15% or more of our common stock, and thereby becomes an “acquiring person,” or announces commencement of a tender offer or exchange offer, the consummation of which would result in the ownership by the person or group of 15% or more of our common stock. In the event that a person becomes an “acquiring person” or if we are the surviving corporation in a merger with an “acquiring person” and the shares of our common stock were not changed or exchanged, the rights will thereafter become exercisable for a number of shares of our common stock equal to two times the then current purchase price of the right. On April 12, 2006, we amended the Rights Plan’s definition of Acquiring Person to remove the limited carve out for America Online, Inc. and its affiliates and associates to acquire up to 30% of our common stock. The rights are not exercisable as of the date of this filing. We will be entitled to redeem the rights at $0.01 per right at any time prior to the time that a person or group becomes an acquiring person.

These provisions of Delaware law, our Amended and Restated Certificate of Incorporation and Amended and Restated Bylaws and our Rights Agreement could make it more difficult for us to be acquired by another company, even if our acquisition is in the best interests of our stockholders. Any delay or prevention of a change of control or change in management could cause the market price of our common stock to decline..

 

[jacmyoung]

Again there is simply no benefit of buying TiVo at this time, Charlie is betting on a no contempt, and even if a contempt, he can still appeal all the way, and drag this thing out another year.

But mark my words, there will be no contempt because the law is clear, an infringer is allowed to modify the adjudicated products in order to work around the patent, in order to remain in the markeplace.

Again, the only time E* may still be found in contempt, as the judge said himself on 9/4, is if the "extent of the design around" is only colorable. By all evidence, the new software design around is so substantial it is far beyond being only colorable.

 

[cosmo_kramer]

With the lawsuit behind them, the two companies will now figure out a way to work together, many analysts say. They say the two companies have complementary technology that could enhance their respective business models.

"We continue to believe the case could lead to a licensing deal with Dish," noted BMO Capital Markets analyst Leland Westerfield, who holds an outperform rating on Tivo shares and a $20 price target. He doesn't rate Dish.

A deal would likely focus on licensing TiVo's recording technology, which allows users to record programs and watch them at their leisure, to Dish. That would help Dish market its satellite television service, which is falling behind competitors including DirecTV Group Inc. (DTV). It would also give TiVo access to the Englewood, Colo.-based company's 13.7 million subscribers, possibly opening a new and large stream of revenue.

TiVo and Dish representatives declined to comment for this report. But TiVo executives have previously suggested the company, which is in the midst of changing its business model to one stressing partnerships rather than direct sales, would consider some sort of deal with Dish.

Dish-TiVo Partnership Seen As Spat Winds Down

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

I have been saying they should partner for a long time now.

It makes sense for both companies.

 

[8bitbytes]

After Dish programs around the infringement, then they are going to go back and license what they programmed around???

 

[HDRoberts]

So long as they don't mess with the GUI. And please don't give us that "Tivo" sound. Not to mention they need to keep the true 30 second skip. And they better not start chaging the Tivo rate of $12.95/month for service.

Also, how would the 622s and 722s be handled? There is currently no indication these infringe, but I bet Tivo would want royaties for them anyway (not to meting the 922 and all future DVRs.)

On second thought, a partnership could be bad.

 

[Hall]

By all evidence, the new software design around is so substantial it is far beyond being only colorable.

What evidence ?

 

[Tyralak]

After Dish programs around the infringement, then they are going to go back and license what they programmed around???

I hope not. I don't want my Dish DVR crippled by a slow, illogical interface and ridiculous circus noises. (Bleep! Bloop!) I also don't want it slowed down to about half it's speed, thank you very much.

 

[dfergie]

SAN FRANCISCO (Dow Jones)--With four years of litigation between TiVo Inc. (TIVO) and Dish Network Corp. (DISH) winding down, the relationship between the companies might be entering a less-contentious phase: partnership.
Earlier this week, the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear an appeal of a 2006 verdict that found Dish had infringed on several of TiVo's patents. The high court's decision effectively ended an original lawsuit filed against Dish by Alviso, Calif.-based TiVo in 2004.
With the lawsuit behind them, the two companies will now figure out a way to work together, many analysts say. They say the two companies ...

Source & more: wsj.com