Time for another game of musical dishes.

[Dee_Ann]

With the impending arrival (pleeeeeeeease let it be soon!) of my new red Amiko A3 I am trying to work out how I will go about redoing EVERYTHING..

Several of my dishes will have dual output LNBF’s so they can also feed a secondary system but we won’t worry about those right now. So let’s just pretend everything is single output for now.

The dishes. I have the 10’ C-band. It’s motorized but currently the Gbox is not “in the loop”. No device I have can move the dish except the Gbox which is stand alone right now. The cable does not pass through it, the only wires connected to it are the motor control wires. When connected to the PC, the PC would send random commands to it and cause frequent flop overs. I had to remove it because of that. As of now I can only move the dish with the remote control or the push buttons on the box.

I would like to put the box in the system properly so that the A3 can move the dish on demand as it needs to.

I have the Prodelin 1.8m that I am planning to convert to a C-band minibud. Most likely I will parked it on MeTV since they have a more stable signal than RTV. I figure the DVB-S will be less temperamental. In the past I’ve had miserable luck with RTV’s S2 signal even using a 10’ dish.

I plan to install another HH USALS 1m KU dish for the A3. (I have one now in use for my MicroHD and I want to leave that as is.)

I have assorted fixed KU dishes that I want to put on it as well. One for 97, maybe one for 103, one for 125 and a spare. Just because they are already in the ground and I get annoyed waiting on those stupid “moving dish” messages to clear. I also like the instantaneousness of fixed dishes. And as much trouble as I’ve had with motorized dishes, I want them to by my primary dishes and the motorized KU dish as a backup and exploration dish.

As far as I can figure it, I have to run the HH motor on the 0k side of the 22khz Ecoda switch. So when I want to view something on it the tuner only has to concern itself with sending a USALS only signal to it.

EVERYTHING else, I believe, should go on the 22k side of the Ecoda. But what I’m not sure if I can do is have the Gbox in the system too. I was thinking it can be used as a GOTO-X controller. So to move the dish on the C-band arc I would send a 22k on AND a GOTO-X. I’m thinking I can put the DiSEqC (I BLOODY HATE THIS WORD! I CAN NEVER SPELL OR PRONOUNCE IT!!! ), the BLOODY STUPID DiSEqC switch in there as well to give me eight uncommitted DiSEqC ports on the 22k side.

I really hate this stupid word, DiSEqC I have to look it up on google every single time and copy and paste it. This is the STUPIDEST WORD EVER INVENTED!! GRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!

ANYWAY........



So to watch MeTV I would need (assuming I assign Gbox position 10 to SES 1) to send this signal,

22k on, uncommitted DiSEqC port 1, GOTO-(10)

BUT, to watch RTV on SES2 which is a fixed dish it would be,
22k on, uncommitted DiSEqC port 2 (no goto command needed, not motorized)

To watch something on 97w it would be 22k on, uncommitted DiSEqC port 3

etc....

I don’t see an issue with stacking two commands such as the 22k and the DiSEqC commands but what about adding a third command, the GOTO-X ??

Will the Amiko A3 let me do this? I know for a fact that I can do it with my PC using that deadware ‘MyTheatre’..

I want to get rid of the PC completely (I have other plans for it) and do this strictly with STB’s..

I also plan to put an SiliconDust ATSC OTA tuner on the A3.

Can I do these things? What happened to the resident switch genius ?? Anole? If anyone would know it would be him.

Thanks!

Edit: Another option I’ve discovered since reading up on this DiSEqC stuff, if nothing else, what about an option to send customized commands to DiSEqC devices? From what I read, the tuner sends some HEX codes that the switches respond to and in complex, stacked systems you can stack the commands to get complex results. So I’m wondering if the A3 will have the option to send custom DiSEqC commands ? If it won’t let me stack three commands like above, maybe I can send it custom commands?

Turns out my switch is a Digiwave, not a DMS like I used in the picture. So my switch is a DiSEqC 1.1 - 8 ports all uncommitted . uncommitted 1 - uncommitted 8
I’m sure this is a very important point when it comes to chaining/stacking three DiSEqC devices.

 

[Dee_Ann]

A little more research and I learn that my 8x1 DiSEqC switch is a 1.1 and the Gbox is a 1.2

I don’t know what a 22khz switch would count as. I was wondering if I really need it but then I realized that the 10’ C-band cable is a single run from the dish into the house.
Then there is an entirely separate wire that runs from the other dishes into the house.

Obviously I can’t put the Gbox outside in the middle of my yard for a multitude of reasons. And the 8x1 switch can’t be in the house because I can’t run oodles of wires from all the dishes into the house, while it can be done it would be silly and expensive, the wire I use is not cheap. Also the PVC tube running underground out to the dishes is full, I just can not run any more wires through it. I ran new wires through it about 2 years ago and it about killed me. Never again.

I’m also thinking that IF I told the tuner that the LNB is a universal it would turn on the 22khz signal so I wouldn’t have to have a third switch option, so to speak. But the problem with that is, I need the third option for the C-band and I don’t think there is a universal C-band that uses 22khz in it the way a KU universal does.

 

[jorgek]

I notice the USALS motor is behind the 22khz switch and the Disq switch. Is the power passing rating on the switches adequate to properly power the motor and the LNBs? I have run my Stab 90 through the Ecoda 22khz switch and a Chieta 2041 but I don't like doing so.

 

[Dee_Ann]

Actually, that second graphic is actually a bit inaccurate. Or rather I should say it’s lacking in detail and accuracy.

I made that image not really thinking it through properly. I actually don’t think that I can put the 8x1 switch between the motor like that.
I guess in retrospect that entire graphic is messed up. I suppose I should redo it.

 

[Dee_Ann]

I think I have it figured out.

Rather than having the dishes on the 22k side of the Ecoda, which would require three levels of stacked commands, I can put them on the 0k side and put the motor on the 22k side.
Then to operate USALS motor I would have to send a 22k on and then the USALS command, so that’s two levels of commands.

And with the other side, since it’s all on the 0k side the switch is a passive, pass-through and essentially ignored and doesn’t even exist, so to speak.
The cable would pass through the Gbox (Does it pass through DiSEqC to other switches beyond it????) and connect to the 8x1.

IF this would work, this might do the trick.

Yes? No??

 

[Dee_Ann]

Here's what I said to Kira in the other thread:

Below is a marked up picture showing that idea.
Perhaps someone will offer a thought as to why it (apparently) doesn't work properly.

I expected two entries on the receiver if you want both C and Ku bands on any given satellite.
The C-band entry has 22khz off, but the Ku-entry has 22khz on...
... am I missing something, here?

I believe I have found the answer to my question !

IF, this (or something very similar to this) will indeed work on the Amiko A3, I’ll be good to go.

If the posts in THIS THREAD are feasible, then it would appear that I can indeed put a DiSEqC switch AFTER the Gbox without any issues !
And putting a switch after the USALS motor will give me some additional options as well.

I just hope the A3 will allow such a configuration ! I guess the trick will be sorting it all out in my head so I can tell the A3 how to do things.
I guess I have to understand it first, so I can wire it and then so I can set up the A3 to control it all properly.

I do feel a twinge of hope in all this..

 

[ynnedibanez]

View attachment 99628

why are you using the ecoda 22khz switch? cant you use 1 of the extra ports on the 8x1 uncommitted switch for your usals ku dish?

and btw, DiSEqC stands for Di-gital S-atellite Eq-uipment C-ontrol and is pronounced "die-seck"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DiSEqC
i used to have the same problem
now i just remember what it stands for and that the second and second to last letters are lower case.
(of course i typically type it all out in lower case anyway)
hope this helps

 

[Dee_Ann]

Well, the reason for the 22khz switch is because I ran two separate wires out to my dishes.

One wire was to the 8x1 switch which is in a waterproof box out in the middle of the yard. There are a number of ku dishes that connect to the switch.
At the time I had only a PC with a tuner card and it was incapable of operating an HH motor so my only option was to use a bunch of fixed dishes.
And back then there were lots of satellites with lots of channels so it was worth having all that.
Putting the switch indoors was not an option, it’s 50 feet from my house to the dishes and the wire is buried. I use expensive, high quality wire so it would be silly to run 8-10 wires like that.
Hence the switch being way out there instead of in here. I wish I could have it in here, it would make things technically easier. Anyway..

Then I got a C-band dish. And my only option to have a motor move the dish was to put in a Gbox V3000.
To use it you have to run your wire from the PC (or STB) into the Gbox then from there to the LNBF. The Gbox got it’s commands from the tuner via the wire, it then operates the motor via four wires.

The only way I could figure out to do this was put a 22khz switch in there so when I accessed the dishes on the 8x1 the switch was default 0k/off so it just sent the Diseqc 1.1 command.
To use the C-band it would send a 22k/on command AND whatever 1.2 command the Gbox needed.

This was all I could figure out to do at the time as my knowledge was very limited then (and still is to some degree).

However the stupid PC kept sending spurious, random gibberish to the Gbox and it would frequently ‘dump’ the dish over on it’s side (this was before I learned about limit switches) and almost broke the motor arm several times. I found this to be absolutely unacceptable so I removed the Gbox from the PC so that the only way to control the dish is manually using the remote control or the panel switches on the box.

But now I am getting close to ripping everything apart and starting over and I have to rethink and rewire everything.

I’m reading some really old threads that someone said they just put EVERYTHING on a single wire and let the devices sort it all out.

So here’s a basic concept.

Amiko A3------>Gbo1.2)------>HH USALS(1.2)------>8x1(1.1)------>ALL LNBF’s

The Gbox is diseqc 1.2 The 8x1 switch is diseqc 1.1
The HH USALS motor, well, I THOUGHT it was 1.3 but that’s not true. I read the diseqc website and it turns out USALS is not a protocol, it’s software that figures out where you are, where the satellites are and what commands to send to the motor. Via diseqc 1.2 commands.

So I would end up having two 1.2 and one 1.1 device all in line.
I can see it being OK to chain a 1.1 and a 1.2 device but I don’t know if having two 1.2 motor devices on the same wire is feasible. Perhaps the commands the two of them use are different enough that they won’t conflict?

 

[ynnedibanez]

that setup should work great

 

[jorgek]

Is it safe to drive a motor thru a 8x1 Disque switch? Do you not run the risk of destroying the switch? I was always under the impression that the switches are delicate and prone to failure.
As I stated in a previous post I did run a motor thru a 22hkz swith without any apparent ill effects and thru a 4x1 switch. After reading the stickies on switches on this forum I rewired the motor so as not to route thru the 4x1. It does require more short pieces of coax but it puts my mind at ease.

However my system consists of only 4 dishes (1 with USALs) so it not as complex as what DeeAnn is trying to accomplish.

 

[KE4EST]

Amiko A3------>Gbo1.2)------>HH USALS(1.2)------>8x1(1.1)------>ALL LNBF’s

Is it safe to drive a motor thru a 8x1 Disque switch?

If she does it the way she posted here she will be fine as the switch is on the other side of the motor.

 

[jorgek]

Must have been a senior moment. The switch is after the motor.

 

[Dee_Ann]

Right.. I was planing on the 8x1 going after the switch and then all the LNBF’s connect into it. It involves some extra back and forth wires buy oh well..
I just hope it will work.

I bought a new 500gb little wee tiny disk for the A3. I can’t believe how tiny it is!

I guess now I need to start looking for a second HH USALS motor too.

I also need to hurry up and get my C-band dishes in proper working order because I saw Doctor Who starts on RTV on the 4th of August.
I really hate that they killed the KU feed.

I should start by making my 10 foot dish work right. It’s a mess and has never really worked right. Now that I have a proper meter I need to get it done.

 

[Bongu]

SNIP

Dee_Ann said:

So here’s a basic concept.

Amiko A3------>Gbo1.2)------>HH USALS(1.2)------>8x1(1.1)------>ALL LNBF’s

SNIP

Without using custom set Diseqc 1.2 positions that keep C-band sats and Ku-band sats separate(ie..positions 1-30 C-band and Positions 31-60 Ku-band) I don't think this will do what you want. I believe BOTH motors will respond to the Diseqc 1.2 commands. I do not think this is what you desired. If you have a 22khz switch and no universal LNB(F)s, then the following is what I would do:
Receiver -----22khz switch off ------ V/Gbox/ASC1 ------------------c-band LNB(F)s
Receiver -----22khz switch on ------- H-H motor ----------Diseqc switch-----Ku band LNB(F)s

 

[Titanium]

USALS and DiSEqC 1.2 motor control use different DiSEqC command sets. It is possible with most satellite receivers to program each satellite independently using either DiSEqC 1.2 or USALS.

A USALS command will not trigger the DiSEqC 1.2 positioner and a DiSEqC 1.2 command will not move a USALS motor (unless the user has saved the DiSEqC 1.2 position in the motor).

 

[Dee_Ann]

But, I thought, or so I read, that USALS is just a computer program that figures out what diseqc 1.2 command to send a motor... No?

I found this which details how all the diseqc stuff works. http://www.spaun.com/files/8df79_en_DiSEqC_for_Technicians.pdf

I really know pretty much nothing about this but I’m going to read it, several times over.
Maybe I can figure it out, how to make it all work.