I'm torn between a TiVo Roamio and a Channel Master CM-7000PAL Antenna Compatible DVR. The first has four tuners and the later has only two. (Plus the Roamio has monthly fees, but the CM-7000PAL doesn't, but I don't mind paying the monthly fees if it means more tuners and less conflicts.) I'm leaning towards the Roamio, but I hear it gets the channels through a database and does not scan for them, but the CM-7000PAL I know does for a fact. I prefer more tuners but won't be willing to sacrifice for that if it means sacrificing channels, so my question is, does the Roamio have all the channels and subchannels in its database, or should I go with the CM-7000PAL and scan for them, for I believe scanning for that will get them all? What should I do?
Thinking about getting a DVR for my Winegard antenna. Which one should I get?
- Thread starter edisonprime
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Just also read on this forum that a new Channel Master DVR is coming, should I wait and get that one? Does it have four tuners like the TiVo?
Tivos use the tribune database so yes the guide info is there on all channels in MOST cases. If you have a low powered translator station or something it may not show up but here in Minneapolis it shows the guide info for all the low powered religious stations (EWTN, Daystar) and even the Home Shopping Channel
Why not just get a Tivo Series 3 with lifetime? There are some deals out there (folks are dumping the Series 3 for Roamios)
Why not just get a Tivo Series 3 with lifetime? There are some deals out there (folks are dumping the Series 3 for Roamios)
I currently use a TIVO Premiere OTA, and am considering upgrading to a Roamio.
I have had no problem getting guide data for all channels from TIVO. I would suggest buying lifetime at the same time since the payback period is around 18 months of monthly charges. The real problem is masking out stuff that is in your DMA, but you can't actually receive. Not a big deal as the TIVO has a good favorites capability. If nothing else, you need it to filter out the shopping subchannels
I haven't used the Channelmaster, but I have constant issues with psip data being innacurate and/or unavailable on my TVs. Name based recording, season passes, an integrated solution for online content, 30 second skip, ability to increase HDD size, etc, all make the TIVO the better choice for me. Only drawback is the higher sticker shock for lifetime, but it is worth it in the long term.
I have had no problem getting guide data for all channels from TIVO. I would suggest buying lifetime at the same time since the payback period is around 18 months of monthly charges. The real problem is masking out stuff that is in your DMA, but you can't actually receive. Not a big deal as the TIVO has a good favorites capability. If nothing else, you need it to filter out the shopping subchannels
I haven't used the Channelmaster, but I have constant issues with psip data being innacurate and/or unavailable on my TVs. Name based recording, season passes, an integrated solution for online content, 30 second skip, ability to increase HDD size, etc, all make the TIVO the better choice for me. Only drawback is the higher sticker shock for lifetime, but it is worth it in the long term.
and with the TVGOS system being dropped back this summer you only have like a days worth of guide (max) on the systems that dont have a subscription service.
I would say check with your local stations. They are only required to send out 12hrs of guide data with psip, however many send out more. I emailed the engineers at all my local stations and all but one (Fox and sister station MyNet) bumped up guide info to 3 and 4 days worth. I have 3 of the EchoStar DtvPal dvrs which the ChannelMaster is a clone and they work perfectly fine. However it does come down to how much guide data you want and can get from your local stations.
If you want an experience more like current Dish/Directv dvrs then go with a Tivo, if you have enough guide data and don't mind having to remember to set new timers when the time changes or when a network moves a show to a different night or timeslot, then the Pals are perfectly fine.
I'll second the series 3 TiVo suggestion, about 2 weeks ago I bought one on ebay for $199.50 with lifetime. It has a better ATSC tuner than my DISH DVR and at least 90% of the Dallas stations have information where DISH might have had 50%. Also many forums to get help and advice from because of TiVo's popularity.
I have two Tivo's. A Series 2 and a Premiere. Other dvr's use PSIP data, which can vary on it's accuracy, for scheduling. Or you're stuck in the 80's with vcr type scheduling. After using a Panasonic DVD recorder w/TVGOS, a Dish 722K and now a Tivo, I will never go back to poor guides for scheduling recordings.
I personally would buy a new Roamio instead of a used model. Four tuners for ota is great, especially since ota networks (unlike cable) usually only have one showing of a program. The Roamio's ota tuner is said to be better than the Premieres and at least as good as the Series 3. And the hdd upgrades are super easy now since the Tivo os is embedded on the motherboard. Just pop in the larger hdd, let it set itself up and you're done. But, if you're on a lower budget, then used Series 3 and Premieres are going pretty cheap now.
I personally would buy a new Roamio instead of a used model. Four tuners for ota is great, especially since ota networks (unlike cable) usually only have one showing of a program. The Roamio's ota tuner is said to be better than the Premieres and at least as good as the Series 3. And the hdd upgrades are super easy now since the Tivo os is embedded on the motherboard. Just pop in the larger hdd, let it set itself up and you're done. But, if you're on a lower budget, then used Series 3 and Premieres are going pretty cheap now.
Looking at the going prices, you could get 3 or 4 used series 3's with lifetime subscriptions for less than 1 Roamio with lifetime . That was why "everybody" was suggesting the used series 3.
Yes it would be an added step to watch some recordings,since I would need to switch inputs on the TV,if I had 2 series 3 in the family room to get 4 tuners available to record . Yes ,I would need to have duplicate recordings in bedrooms of any show we wanted to watch in the bedrooms . Whereas with the Roamio they would all be on 1 unit, but near as I can tell there is not a lifetime subscrition available for the Tivo clients it is a flat $6/mo per client and the Roamio is $500 for a lifetime subscription. So if we want to be able to watch a Roamio in 6 rooms, (which requires 2 Roamio's and 4 clients we are looking at $1000 (lifetime on 2 DVRs ) + $24/mo for life or $50/month for life. Sorry if I think $50 month or another $1000 up front and $300 a year ,not including equipment costs to watch free TV is excessive. I've already spent $500 between antenna, mounts, coax ,etc .
Hey I wonder if somebody a lot smarter than me can build a network DVR that uses AM21 without a DTV subscription ?
The lifetime subscription for a Tivo Mini is $149, it does get pretty expensive.
If you want to watch recordings in any room, then buy used Premieres w/lifetime instead of Series 3 units. The premieres can stream as well as transfer recordings with all other Premiere and Roamio models through your home network. Series 3 models can only transfer recordings with other Tivo's.
Alternate thinking
From your zip code, it looks like you can get maybe 5-7 channels?
And you're worried about how many tuners?
i live in the Los Angeles suburbs, and can honestly scan 90-100 OTA channels.
I have a dual tuner, and it serves me well.
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My recorder consists of a multi-media laptop I got several years ago, with Windows Vista HOME on it.
It has a built-in free application that only needs a tuner and an IR remote to become a PVR.
My dual input tuner is HD Home Run from Silicon Dust, located in another room and plugged into my house LAN via Ethernet (under $100).
The IR remote was a common Windows Media device from Amazon for around $15.
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I only have the one setup in my bedroom, but you -could- have duplicates in other rooms.
I have a cheaper solution.
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Sorry. Out of time.
If you have any interest, I'll continue later.
If not, that's fine.
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From your zip code, it looks like you can get maybe 5-7 channels?
And you're worried about how many tuners?
i live in the Los Angeles suburbs, and can honestly scan 90-100 OTA channels.
I have a dual tuner, and it serves me well.
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My recorder consists of a multi-media laptop I got several years ago, with Windows Vista HOME on it.
It has a built-in free application that only needs a tuner and an IR remote to become a PVR.
My dual input tuner is HD Home Run from Silicon Dust, located in another room and plugged into my house LAN via Ethernet (under $100).
The IR remote was a common Windows Media device from Amazon for around $15.
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I only have the one setup in my bedroom, but you -could- have duplicates in other rooms.
I have a cheaper solution.
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Sorry. Out of time.
If you have any interest, I'll continue later.
If not, that's fine.
.
Don't the Premieres have weak tuners?
I for one HATE the Tivo interface. And where I use my DTV Pal DVR I only get PSIP and have no connection to update a guide otherwise. But that, of course, does not apply to you. But just to be on the safe side, if you go with a subscription guide based unit, see if you can get one that also gets PSIP. TVGOS is gone, you never know what problems may lie down the road with getting subscribed EPG data.
I for one HATE the Tivo interface. And where I use my DTV Pal DVR I only get PSIP and have no connection to update a guide otherwise. But that, of course, does not apply to you. But just to be on the safe side, if you go with a subscription guide based unit, see if you can get one that also gets PSIP. TVGOS is gone, you never know what problems may lie down the road with getting subscribed EPG data.
I think the TIVOs have a large enough subscriber base that their guide data is safe for years to come. Nothing is forever, but 4-5 years is definitely long enough to justify lifetime.
Of course, that is my guess, but even PSIP data is at the mercy of the broadcaster. The time interval keeps getting shorter on PSIP from many markets, and you may be stuck with unreliable "what's on now" data at the start of programs.
Of course, that is my guess, but even PSIP data is at the mercy of the broadcaster. The time interval keeps getting shorter on PSIP from many markets, and you may be stuck with unreliable "what's on now" data at the start of programs.
which is why I love my DtvPal Dvrs and greatly miss my Song DHG's, (damn Rovi for killing the TVGoS for OTA ).
My Pals work fine, but like I posted earlier, I contacted all the local stations and asked them to put out more guide info with the psip data, all but the 2 Cox owned stations were happy to do it and said they were happy to know it was actually being used by viewers.
). My Pals work fine, but like I posted earlier, I contacted all the local stations and asked them to put out more guide info with the psip data, all but the 2 Cox owned stations were happy to do it and said they were happy to know it was actually being used by viewers.
Tivo may be changing their business model to selling the software and getting out of the hardware business. Or cease operations one day. Either way, that will put a sunset to the guide data eventually. But yes, 4-5 years would be worth it. I guess. I wish I had more years in my Sony DHG.
PSIP capability as a back up may add years to it's useful life.
PSIP capability as a back up may add years to it's useful life.
They have to start making a profit on something besides suing companies, there's none left to sue.
Real Player DVRs still get guide data and they have been gone a long time.
If TiVo goes out of the hardware business, I 'd look for them to sell their patents and monthly subscription stuff to dish or the like - I see them or their successor being around for 10+ years at least.
If TiVo goes out of the hardware business, I 'd look for them to sell their patents and monthly subscription stuff to dish or the like - I see them or their successor being around for 10+ years at least.
BTW, it isn't just the OTA tuners. I had a situation with TWC where certain channels were weak on the cable itself. They played OK on the Samsung DVR provided by TWC, but had tons of macroblocking with the TIVO Premiere. Finally connected a spectrum analyzer and showed that the signal was below standards.
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