TheDigitalBits Site Hacked

[shanewalker]

My take on things is that anyone who isn't giving you the straight talk and telling you what their biases are and why is trying to sell you something.

The web is full of spin and hidden agenda--on that I agree. But I tend to trust folks who are up front with their position, who tend to side on the consumer's side rather than an industry affiliation and who have a history of speaking out on behalf of such.

These are the folks who are actually quite chill if you disagree with them, they will restate their case and leave it at that...because their reasonable people with no hidden axe to grind. Its the zealots and the muckrakers that you have to watch out for.

In that case...I always tend to 'follow the money.' They're usually either highly invested in a product/format/system and are frantically trying to justify such, they are trying to develop/sell something in line with that product/format/system or they're likewise on someone's payroll. Shills and self-shills--like I said. When you censor on behalf of your site/mag sponsors, you're a shill.

Sell crazy somewhere else--we're all full up here .

 

[gadgtfreek]

Double hogwash. AVs is impartial.If you post anti BD in the BD forums your posts are deleted and you are warned. Apparently you do NOT know what a shill site is. Just go over to Blu-ray.com and make neutral posts and you will be BANNED!

Your so full of shat vurbano. AVM$ is biased in the insiders thread and everybody knows it. Amir was allowed to use every "insider" post to take shots at the BD camp, which he did. Somethings wrong when you got a guy on the HDDVD side answering BD questions and using the answers to bash BD. Its the main reason I don't go there anymore, and the fact Im banned right now. It does lift on 11-7 though

 

[vurbano]

Your so full of shat vurbano. AVM$ is biased in the insiders thread and everybody knows it. Amir was allowed to use every "insider" post to take shots at the BD camp, which he did. Somethings wrong when you got a guy on the HDDVD side answering BD questions and using the answers to bash BD. Its the main reason I don't go there anymore, and the fact Im banned right now. It does lift on 11-7 though

Bologna, Amir is not allowed to take shots in the BD section of AVS. He can however take them in the HD DVD section just like every over HD DVD fan can. But not personal shots. I myself recieved 3 demerits for calling Beatboy an 8 year old BD shill in the HD DVD section. You couldnt be more wrong about AVS

 

[gadgtfreek]

I did not say my problem was with him taking shots in the BD or HDDVD forum, its in the insiders thread. He uses a thread that is strictly for insider Q&A(that should be professional) to further bust on BD and those guys allowed it.

It makes the whole thread an utter joke when someone asks for a BD insider to answer a question and Amir is allowed to butt in and use the reply kick BD in the balls. I hear lately they have cracked down on him but I would not know.

Lets face it, everyone (except you) has accepted the fact that AVS is a pro M$/HDDVD site.

 

[teachsac]

I did not say my problem was with him taking shots in the BD or HDDVD forum, its in the insiders thread. He uses a thread that is strictly for insider Q&A(that should be professional) to further bust on BD and those guys allowed it.

It makes the whole thread an utter joke when someone asks for a BD insider to answer a question and Amir is allowed to butt in and use the reply kick BD in the balls. I hear lately they have cracked down on him but I would not know.

Lets face it, everyone (except you) has accepted the fact that AVS is a pro M$/HDDVD site.

Yeah: Here's talktr8t's latest post. Professional. No wonder he gets attacked.

"Except for the ones who are buying it to attach to a PC for use pirating HD DVD content."

AVS Forum - View Single Post - Format Battle General Discussion Thread III: Discuss it here!

 

[gadgtfreek]

Do you guys read.

Doesn't look like the insiders post to me, looks like a forum called "BATTLE", what do you expect to happen there?

 

[diogen]

Which is the definition of NON-objective.

Being an insider (named or anonymous) means being non-objective, i.e. biased. By definition. Taking a page from your book, "what DON'T you understand here"...
Amir happened to be in a differend league: he is privy to 10 times the information we'll ever know about the HD/BD tussle and he knows how to spin better than any other insider. And that is the receipt for being hated...

Leaving out the pros like Stacy Spears, I believe paidgeek is the least spinning insider (~10% - the only reason I read the Insider thread a br.com), followed by Amir and KJack (~30%), Ben (~50%), Talk and Penton-Man (90%+).

...Bill Hunt made an open letter on his taking a side and why...That's NOT underhanded, that's honest.

You are obviously a fan of his. This is what you posted some 9 months ago...
(taken from here AVS Forum - View Single Post - Digital Bits on the war)

I think everyone...needs to chill out and respect those who've earned it--like Bill, for one, who definitely has earned his bearing as a 'non-corporate shill' voice in the AV wilderness.

There was a time when I was in the same boat. This was the article when I learned about him...Why the DVD Hack Was a Cinch
And for years I'd sign under what you said above "Bill earned respect". Until he wrote this (over a year before PS3 launched!)
My Two Cents - Archived Posts (5/17/05 - 5/2/05)

I'm going to go out in a limb right now and post something that some of you may consider a bit controversial. But I think the writing is on the wall. I think the format war is over before it's even begun, and the Toshiba/HD-DVD camp is toast.

It can be called "expressing his own opinion". I think prostitution would be a much better fitting term. The only difference between JoeSp and Bill Hunt making this statement - the later gets paid for it.

It was downhill ever since...

Diogen.

 

[diogen]

...That is jackbooting folks people and I for one think that it is low and despicable to attack someone because of what they support.

Is this addressed to me?
Can you link to a post (mine or somebody else's) where a person was attacked for the choice he made?
Has any of the HD "zealots" poked fun at you for considering the A35 (or was it a stunt)?

I didn't argue the point that you are hearing differences between DD+ and lossless - although by itself this would be a medical miracle.

What does piss me off - and what most of our exchanges revolve around - is your escapades on issues you have no clue about: standards, color space, luma, BD profiles, bandwidth, storage, TVs in China, etc. You invent numbers as you go, just to support your newborn theories... That most of the time are lame at best.

Diogen.

 

[teamerickson]

I think Joe is eluding to the fact it's been a little tense here the last few weeks and we should remember that this is an open forum for thought. Maybe it's just me?

 

[shanewalker]

'Diogen,' thanks for responding and providing those links to my 9mo.-old post over at AVS and to Bill Hunts self-described early call from 2 yrs ago...I re-read them. It was quite a throw-back/nostalgia trip.

I pondered the language of both, and parsed the logic inherent in the arguments. To be honest, I was looking for some underhanded or suspicious bias in either and, guess what, I found none.

Particularly in light of my stance on owning both formats and consistently/repeatedly pointing out the merits of both--I have only ever stated that it seemed like Bluray had advantage in specs, but HD-DVD had better content in the near term (to my tastes), and I recommended that most people sit the format war out until either they could afford a combo player/recorder or there was a winner. That Bill Hunt saw video game consoles as being a very significant factor in the format war a year before the PS3 came out or the 360s HD-DVD add-on was released speaks volumes, doesn't it? While I had to argue time and again w/ folks on AVS about this, his was a prescient voice. I didn't take cues from him--I agreed w/ him based on my own gut and view of the changing A/V home electronics market...the "old school" mindsets be damned. The fact, in that old post you point to, that he sided w/ Sony had to do with the fact that they were going to build in Bluray support, while Microsoft hadn't announced any for HD-DVD at the time.

So, when Bill Hunt watches the past year's impact on the home video market by these consoles and looks at the software sales and thinks hard about what would be best for HD-on-disc consumers...he took a stand. He said, one side HAS to win for this entire generation of disc media to avoid dying a slow death of general marketplace irrelevance (a niche, laserdisc existence, to be circumvented by downloads, etc.). With the assessment that more equipment manufacturers, more spec capacity and (currently) more studio support falling on the Bluray side of things...it seemed a logical call to tap it as the winner, while acknowledging that NOTHING was wrong w/ HD-DVD from a quality viewing experience perspective.

Personally, I could just as well say that, as a consumer, if you gave me a combo player I could give a hang what format is selling better at the time, or what title comes out in which colored packaging...as long as the titles I want are coming out in quality HD. Problem is, with two formats, consumer confusion/ambivalence and all the problems in thinned resources that all this mess creates, I can understand the argument that there needs to be a format 'victor' in order for studios to feel comfortable releasing titles more aggressively and likewise the public to buy into the HD-on-disc. For that, my friend, is the chicken-and-egg dilemma that is stonewalling it all. Comfortable studios and general market consumers--which will come first and why.

Will it be cheap players that provides a tipping point--maybe. But my guess its the content that will decide things, what movies people want...and with dueling formats the content has been trickling out, and that's not good.

I think Bill is justified in his assertions, as much as any A/V pundit that is...but I don't believe anyone has a certain answer. Other than the agreed-upon 2 choices, the specifics are all that seem to get argued about: one format taking over or combo players making it a moot point for the population at large (but that doesn't ease the burden on retailers, etc.). So Bill picked Bluray...fine. Disagree with him, but do so by picking apart his points, not assaulting his character. He's making his statements, I'm sure, on good faith. Just like you, right?

 

[diogen]

He's making his statements, I'm sure, on good faith.

This is the only statement I'd disagree with.
He's passionate. Always was, at least since '99 when I started reading him.
He became influential. That's what changed him, I believe.
He thinks the course of DVD history would be different if it wasn't for him. His ego grew too large.

And then he decided to cast his ballot in this HD vs. BD war. And the timing it was done is proof enough for me it wasn't in "good faith".

That's my view on his legacy. He made many more statements after the one I quoted that reinforced my conclusion.
And not a single that would make me reconsider (admittedly, I don't read him too often nowadays).

Diogen.

 

[bsk116]

'Diogen,' thanks for responding and providing those links to my 9mo.-old post over at AVS and to Bill Hunts self-described early call from 2 yrs ago...I re-read them. It was quite a throw-back/nostalgia trip.

I pondered the language of both, and parsed the logic inherent in the arguments. To be honest, I was looking for some underhanded or suspicious bias in either and, guess what, I found none.

Particularly in light of my stance on owning both formats and consistently/repeatedly pointing out the merits of both--I have only ever stated that it seemed like Bluray had advantage in specs, but HD-DVD had better content in the near term (to my tastes), and I recommended that most people sit the format war out until either they could afford a combo player/recorder or there was a winner. That Bill Hunt saw video game consoles as being a very significant factor in the format war a year before the PS3 came out or the 360s HD-DVD add-on was released speaks volumes, doesn't it? While I had to argue time and again w/ folks on AVS about this, his was a prescient voice. I didn't take cues from him--I agreed w/ him based on my own gut and view of the changing A/V home electronics market...the "old school" mindsets be damned. The fact, in that old post you point to, that he sided w/ Sony had to do with the fact that they were going to build in Bluray support, while Microsoft hadn't announced any for HD-DVD at the time.

So, when Bill Hunt watches the past year's impact on the home video market by these consoles and looks at the software sales and thinks hard about what would be best for HD-on-disc consumers...he took a stand. He said, one side HAS to win for this entire generation of disc media to avoid dying a slow death of general marketplace irrelevance (a niche, laserdisc existence, to be circumvented by downloads, etc.). With the assessment that more equipment manufacturers, more spec capacity and (currently) more studio support falling on the Bluray side of things...it seemed a logical call to tap it as the winner, while acknowledging that NOTHING was wrong w/ HD-DVD from a quality viewing experience perspective.

Personally, I could just as well say that, as a consumer, if you gave me a combo player I could give a hang what format is selling better at the time, or what title comes out in which colored packaging...as long as the titles I want are coming out in quality HD. Problem is, with two formats, consumer confusion/ambivalence and all the problems in thinned resources that all this mess creates, I can understand the argument that there needs to be a format 'victor' in order for studios to feel comfortable releasing titles more aggressively and likewise the public to buy into the HD-on-disc. For that, my friend, is the chicken-and-egg dilemma that is stonewalling it all. Comfortable studios and general market consumers--which will come first and why.

Will it be cheap players that provides a tipping point--maybe. But my guess its the content that will decide things, what movies people want...and with dueling formats the content has been trickling out, and that's not good.

I think Bill is justified in his assertions, as much as any A/V pundit that is...but I don't believe anyone has a certain answer. Other than the agreed-upon 2 choices, the specifics are all that seem to get argued about: one format taking over or combo players making it a moot point for the population at large (but that doesn't ease the burden on retailers, etc.). So Bill picked Bluray...fine. Disagree with him, but do so by picking apart his points, not assaulting his character. He's making his statements, I'm sure, on good faith. Just like you, right?

Nice post.

 

[vurbano]

I think Hunt thinks himself very important when he is nothing and cannot change the direction of anything. In casting his vote he is merely trying to guess the winner.

 

[mntwister]

sick of hearing negatives on Bill Hunt, who has a darn good web site, just because he prefers and is pushing blu-ray. He owns the site, and has the right to choose his editorial comments, that's called freedom of the press. The hd-dvd fanboys never give up, trying to defend 1080i on their cheap player that was given away, due to Toshiba having so many left that never sold, and their lack of lossless sound on so many discs (blu-ray exclusive companies Columbia/Sony, Disney, MGM, Fox, Lionsgate, Anchor Bay, Starz have lossless sound on every single release (so 89% of blu releases), now that's how it should be, while Paramount's hd-dvd slate has lossless on one title, and Universal about 15%-see formatwars.com, they keep track). Of course, this is due to the fact that on many titles, hd-dvd just doesn't have enough room.

We all know which is the superior format and which was quickly ripped off from dvd and is not nearly as future-proof as blu-ray. When you can have better bit rates for picture and sound, it's just a better format. And the news 3 or 4 months ago of the 100gb blu disc will be another innovation, entire tv series season set on 1 disc? It will be possible!

 

[vurbano]

sick of hearing negatives on Bill Hunt, who has a darn good web site, just because he prefers and is pushing blu-ray. He owns the site, and has the right to choose his editorial comments, that's called freedom of the press. The hd-dvd fanboys never give up, trying to defend 1080i on their cheap player that was given away, due to Toshiba having so many left that never sold, and their lack of lossless sound on so many discs (blu-ray exclusive companies Columbia/Sony, Disney, MGM, Fox, Lionsgate, Anchor Bay, Starz have lossless sound on every single release (so 89% of blu releases), now that's how it should be, while Paramount's hd-dvd slate has lossless on one title, and Universal about 15%-see formatwars.com, they keep track). Of course, this is due to the fact that on many titles, hd-dvd just doesn't have enough room.

We all know which is the superior format and which was quickly ripped off from dvd and is not nearly as future-proof as blu-ray. When you can have better bit rates for picture and sound, it's just a better format. And the news 3 or 4 months ago of the 100gb blu disc will be another innovation, entire tv series season set on 1 disc? It will be possible!

A format with no defined specs is superior? Most stand alone BD players will never do profile 2.0. Even Sony CEO said he regrets the situation and at best its a stalemate. As for Hunt, he's a troll.

 

[teamerickson]

We all know which is the superior format and which was quickly ripped off from dvd and is not nearly as future-proof as blu-ray. When you can have better bit rates for picture and sound, it's just a better format. And the news 3 or 4 months ago of the 100gb blu disc will be another innovation, entire tv series season set on 1 disc? It will be possible!

I guess we have a different opinion of "superior". Superior to me means most consumer friendly for watching movies, because that what this is all about. I think it is HD DVD. Equal picture quality, cheaper to produce, lower entry point. The economics say HD DVD has the ability to be more profitable due to costs. More profit means a healthier company and stock price for consumers.

The bit rate argument is really not that important.

Commentary: Specs vs. Reality | High-Def Digest

Oh, and in the future, we're all dead!

 

[mntwister]

Superior to me meansto have the movie itself presented at its very best. 50gb allows for the movie in the higher bit rates, can handle all of the extras, and an uncompressed soundtrack. hd-dvd does not have the space, plain and simple, note the releases of Shrek and Transformers, which Paramount itself said they didn't have the room for a lossless track on either film (see high def digest). That's why Paramount has one title with lossless sound, only 21% of Universal's movies have lossless (see Formatwars.com). On the other hand, every single exclusive blu-ray supporting studio has lossless soundtracks on every single title they have issued. That's hundreds of lossless tracks compared to dozens. That includes Fox, Disney, MGM, Sony/Columbia, Lionsgate, Anchor Bay and Starz Home Entertainment. Every single release, uncompressed PCM, DTS Master or Dolby True. Now that's what I have been waiting for and so has everyone else, but defenders of hd-dvd will never admit it.

That's what I care about, getting my money's worth and watching the movie at its very best, and hd-dvd cannot provide that on many of the titles released. I could care less about 1.1 and 2.0 bdj...give me my money's woirth in quality of the movie and I will be very happy, and that's what blu provides for. Picture in picture during the movie is nothing to me, if I am watchig the film, I could care less about having another picture, I've never used it on Dish Network either. As for the connecting online to the studios, mark my words, this will be mainly used for selling you products, and I don't care for advertisements, there are enough.

Blu is for people who want the best quality, period. You can have your $98.00 cheapie 1080i players, I spent plenty on my projector and want 1080p thanks, and to those who say it's just as good as 1080p (1080i), it's bogus information. Anything in progressive format is much better, and if the tv does the de-interlacing from 1080i, you have another step in the signal to screen, and every step degrades quality.

No hd-dvd fanboy will ever convince me the quality of hd-dvd is better than blu-ray, because it isn't. perhaps when they get a 50gb disc, and they can add higher bit rates and lossless sound, I will agree, but until then, I am blu, blu, blu. Besides, Disney, Columbia, Fox and MGM (MGM and United Artists films) are a large percentage of films from Hollywood. That's 4 big exclusives compared to 2 for hd-dvd, I guess I like the selection better. If you look at the history of video, no format ever took off big until Disney hit the scene, and they are blu too.

 

[diogen]

So it looks like you found your holy grail: you know what you want and blu delivers exactly that... Congrats!
But why are you so defensive? Just enjoy the movies...

Diogen.

 

[mntwister]

So it looks like you found your holy grail: you know what you want and blu delivers exactly that... Congrats!
But why are you so defensive? Just enjoy the movies...

Diogen.

I don't have anything against hd-dvd. In fact, the player I am strongly considering is the Samsung bdp-u5000 combi player coming out in December. This will have full interactivity for both formats, will have analog pcm 7.1 analog outputs, support the new sound formats, the HQV Reon upscaler(which I think a very important feature for my current dvd collection), ect. This player is listed on some sites at $799, not a bad deal considering you get the 7.1 outs and the Reon HQV as well as everything else. I agree with you, I just want to enjoy the movies. I do feel blu has an advantage with the space, and it's a fact that there are a few hundred more blu's that have uncompressed sound than hd-dvd, and I am really into soundtracks, as much as I am with the picture. I agree that hd-dvd has some advantages too. The player price is great, they already have full interactivity. I don't think blu-ray was near ready for the market, but I understand that they had to release players close to the time Toshiba did, Sony had spent alot of money on development. I know I don't want a 1080i player, I just spent $2700 on my Epson 1080P projector, so why skimp on the player. But I do understand alot of people have 1080i televisions and those players are perfect for them.

I am a big movie fan, but I am tired of the fanboys trying to convince. The fact is we have to live with 2 formats and I think that's going to be for some time. I just want to sit back and enjoy the movies in the best sound and picture quality available. With blu-ray studios releasing every single title with uncompressed, it's just my opinion that those films are worth spending 30.00 on over ones that don't have uncompressed, and on that issue, blu-ray has really delivered much better, I think probably due to the extra 20gb. But there are others who could care less about the soundtracks, I happen to care a great deal.

2008 will bring cheaper blu-ray players, possibly $199 during the year, and hd-dvd can't go much lower than it is. So price will be equal soon. 2008 will also bring full interactivity, along with supported releases, for blu-ray, and supposedly 51gb discs for hd-dvd, so maybe they will finally be able to add uncompressed to every release like blu ray (except for Warner who continues to release in both formats many titles without uncompressed sound), but there is a big question as to whether the 51gb discs for hd-dvd will play in current players. From what I have read so far, this is a hardware issue that cannot be corrected with firmware, but it remains to be seen. I havn't heard anything about the 51gb disc for a few months.

In summary, give me the movies, I don't care which format, but I want the uncomprsssed sound and best picture quality for each movie. Extras and internet connectivity and picture-in-picture are all much less important to me compared to that. Both formats can handle the best, and I wish they would do it on every title. We are living in the days of availability of DTS Master, PCM 5.1 and Dolby True. I just don't feel we should have to settle for less after living with DVD dolby digital compressed for so long. Once people hear what these soundtracks can sound like, even those rich Cinemascope, 70mm, Todd-AO stereo soundtracks of the classics, the richness, separation, tonal quality, they will hear the difference. My good friend is a projectionist, he started doing this in 1953, just around the time of stereo movies. He recorded some of the soundtracks on 4 track reel to reel tape at the theater and months ago,m played them for me. We compared them to the dvd soundtracks, and all I could say is wow, there is a huge difference. And I mean huge. Soundstage was 100% better with the diurect reel to reel recordings, as well as all other qualities.

The worst part of all of this is.....when dvd became huge, all of us were on these forums that existed at the time, having a grand and exciting time, we all were thrilled with the jump from VHS tape (and even those who had laserdisc). It's really sad to see people getting so angry and intense when we should be enjoying these breakthroughs. So, there are 2 formats now, it's sad for the consumer, really sad and may make these formats become niche formats for years until one gives up, which I don't think is going to happen. All the talk about price of players I think has no baring, because when dvd went to a price where all families could afford one, all studios were supporting the one format. This is a very different story, I don't think comparisons work.

As for Bill Hunt, I see nothing wrong with choosing a side based on his personal opinion. It's his web site, and I have enjoyed his commentary...and I don't always agree but I respect other people's opinions.

 

[diogen]

Amen...

Diogen.