The quality of HD channels?

[kvnfl]

wcnghj, you will notice the biggest difference between 720p and 1080i during live sporting events. Outside of that, not so much.

Has your 722 been upgraded to mpeg4? Quickest way to check is, does it have a card in the left panel? If not, call dish and get one. Mpeg4 PQ is outstanding.

 

[Tygrb8]

wcnghj, you will notice the biggest difference between 720p and 1080i during live sporting events. Outside of that, not so much.

Has your 722 been upgraded to mpeg4? Quickest way to check is, does it have a card in the left panel? If not, call dish and get one. Mpeg4 PQ is outstanding.

How can you tell if you've been upgraded to mpeg4?
Thanks

 

[KAB]

The 622/722/612/, etc, ARE mpeg 4 receivers. There is no upgrade involved.

 

[primetimeguy]

wcnghj, you will notice the biggest difference between 720p and 1080i during live sporting events. Outside of that, not so much.

How so?

That is the theory, but most will say CBS has the best PQ for sporting events and it is 1080i. ESPN and FOX (720p) are a distant second, although with recent changes at ESPN it has been better recently.

Keep in mind that is the source. As to the output setting of the receiver, it takes a VERY discernible eye to notice any difference. But again, theory says set it to the resolution closest to matching the native resolution of your display to reduce the number of times the image is scaled/tweaked to fit. But it could be the STB is better at any conversion/scaling as compared to the TV or vice-versa. So it really depends. I usually recommend 1080i as most HD channels are that resolution and assume the processing in the TV will do better scaling/conversion than the STB.

 

[wcnghj]

Is the 222k MPEG4?

I have tried the HDMI cable I connect to my Xbox+component and no matter what the 222k is always least clear.

 

[KAB]

All current HD receivers, 2**, 6**, 722/K and 922 are mpeg4.

 

[TheKrell]

You forgot the 2xx/K and the 411.

BTW - does anybody know what the "K" stands for? It can't mean "OTA module" because the 922 takes it, but the 211K does not. It can't mean "black" either.

 

[codee]

is there any reason why these receivers don't have a "native resolution" output setting? All of the newer comcast boxes have a native resolution passthrough, or options to select all the formats your tv supports and then the receiver will go from there. On the dish boxes, I have to pick 1 output format for EVERYTHING. For some reason, i have a feeling the scaler in my $4500 tv is better than the one on the dish box...

 

[KAB]

You forgot the 2xx/K and the 411.

No, didn't forget. Lazy fingers.

 

[TheKrell]

is there any reason why these receivers don't have a "native resolution" output setting? All of the newer comcast boxes have a native resolution passthrough, or options to select all the formats your tv supports and then the receiver will go from there. On the dish boxes, I have to pick 1 output format for EVERYTHING. For some reason, i have a feeling the scaler in my $4500 tv is better than the one on the dish box...

That is a darn good question, and an excellent point about scalers. Many of us have asked for a passthrough setting. The only reason I'm not 100% certain there is no good reason for Dish's fixed output is that Dish puts out non-standard resolutions. For example, the 1080i is reputedly 1440X1080. Note that there is no such mode in ATSC broadcast parlance, so a TV set up for all 18 ATSC modes might do something horrific to 1440X1080. Same for the SD signal.

 

[tedb3rd]

...so anyways. I've noticed a decline in picture quality too and it seemed to have happened when a bunch of PBS locals went high definition. You can argue about 720p, 1080i, 1080p, different MPEG generations all day long... But there's still another factor that has a major influence on what the original post was aiming at: picture quality ...and how the amount of compression on a channel affects it according to the human eye. A 1080i res signal with a huge compression ratio would appear as a lower quality compared to a 720p with average to low compression.

Compared to still photo world, it's the slider you can adjust when saving an image in Photoshop... 10 is best... 0 is highest compression and most pixelated. No matter which you choose, it's still a JPG image but the compression varies. Same thing with MPEG2 vs. MPEG4... MPEGX is still MPEGX but the compression can vary within each format.

If you took all the HD channels on Dish and compared them side-by-side... some would be 720p, some would be 1080i... If you compared all the 720p channels--there would be ones that really looked clear/crisp, while others looked more like widescreen SD... ...same thing with 1080i... The high-def PPV channels, to me, have always been best picture quality with seemingly least amount of compression. The premium movie channels came next (like HBO, Starz)... Tied close to those are some of the 'premium' HD channels (like HD Theater, HDNet, etc...)... And then you're locals that are "HD"... Sure, some of that variation is due to 720 vs. 1080... But a big factor is compression ratios of different channels...

 

[codee]

That is a darn good question, and an excellent point about scalers. Many of us have asked for a passthrough setting. The only reason I'm not 100% certain there is no good reason for Dish's fixed output is that Dish puts out non-standard resolutions. For example, the 1080i is reputedly 1440X1080. Note that there is no such mode in ATSC broadcast parlance, so a TV set up for all 18 ATSC modes might do something horrific to 1440X1080. Same for the SD signal.

THAT is a very good point, and the non "standard" resolutions are something i was aware of from back in the day of rainbow and Voom when dish claimed there was a temporary uplink problem but it never even crossed my mind that it would be a factor if the box sent it out like that... it makes perfect sense though! The picture looks good in my opinion, even on my 65" from 9' away but I'd FEEL better knowing it wasn't being converted anymore by dish before my tv got ahold of it.

 

[whatchel1]

That is a darn good question, and an excellent point about scalers. Many of us have asked for a passthrough setting. The only reason I'm not 100% certain there is no good reason for Dish's fixed output is that Dish puts out non-standard resolutions. For example, the 1080i is reputedly 1440X1080. Note that there is no such mode in ATSC broadcast parlance, so a TV set up for all 18 ATSC modes might do something horrific to 1440X1080. Same for the SD signal.

Try again as of 2008 there is.
ATSC Standard A/72 Part 1:2008 (Video System Characteristics of AVC) Resolution Aspect ratio Pixel aspect ratio Scanning Frame rate (Hz) Level
Vertical Horizontal
1080 1920 16:9 square progressive 23.976
24
29.97
30
25 4
progressive 59.94
60
50 4.2
interlaced 29.97 (59.94 fields/s)
30 (60 fields/s)
25 (50 fields/s) 4
1440 16:9 non-square
(4:3) progressive 23.976
24
29.97
30
25 4
progressive 59.94
60
50 4.2
interlaced 29.97 (59.94 fields/s)
30 (60 fields/s)
25 (50 fields/s) 4
720 1280 16:9 square progressive 23.976
24
29.97
30
59.94
60
25
50 3.2, 4
480 720 4:3 or 16:9 non-square
(10:11 or 40:33) progressive 23.976
24
29.97
30
59.94
60
25
50 3.1, 4
interlaced 29.97 (59.94 fields/s)
30 (60 fields/s)
25 (50 fields/s) 3
704 4:3 or 16:9 non-square
(10:11 or 40:33) progressive 23.976
24
29.97
30
59.94
60
25
50 3.1, 4
interlaced 29.97 (59.94 fields/s)
30 (60 fields/s)
25 (50 fields/s) 3
640 4:3 square progressive 23.976
24
29.97
30
59.94
60
25
50 3.1, 4
interlaced 29.97 (59.94 fields/s)
30 (60 fields/s)
25 (50 fields/s) 3
544 4:3 non-square
(40:33) progressive 23.976
25 3
interlaced 29.97 (59.94 fields/s)
25 (50 fields/s)
528 4:3 non-square
(40:33) progressive 23.976
25 3
interlaced 29.97 (59.94 fields/s)
25 (50 fields/s)
352 4:3 non-square
(20:11) progressive 23.976
25 3
interlaced 29.97 (59.94 fields/s)
25 (50 fields/s)
240 352 4:3 non-square
(10:11) progressive 23.976
25 3
120 176 4:3 non-square
(10:11) progressive 23.976
25 1.1

 

[DishSubLA]

I have also noticed National HD PQ is IMPROVED about a month or so ago when someone first brought it up then. Aside from compression, the bit-rate is another very important factor in the HD PQ.

I must say, that our Sony in the living room really does wonders with cleaning up and processing to present a really great HD PQ given just about any format to deal with. I have very recently installed the DVDOEdge and it has improved HD PQ a bit, but to a noticeable degree. Things even look better on our older entry level Sharp, watching Dish HD.

Now, the really sad part is that, at least here in L.A., OTA PQ has actually degraded on several OTA locals, but it still looks good, but that means that this low PQ is what Dish is given to work with in regards to HD LIL. I have seen macroblocing and other artifacts on the OTA via direct or through TiVo and when a brodcaster is stuck working with MPEG2 only 19Mbs left over, we are gonna see problems.

Now, there is a noticeable, but slight, degradation of the KTLA Channel 5 PQ (via direct OTA connnection and TiVo using OTA antenna) is apparent, at lest to me. The KTLA PQ, even through Dish sat HD LIL, looked stunning, especially during the Moring News; it always stood out compared to all the other locals, even as KTLA operated 5.2 for This TV. Then I noticed that the luster was gone. The KTLA HD PQ now seemed less vivid, somewhat flat with less detail and a slight soft look. Well, I discover a few days later that KTLA has opened 5.3 for all to see and they will now be operating TWO sub-channels. Well, now I see. Just like the degradation of KABC (now sending out TWO channels in HD) and KNBC, among others, it is due to the ever increasing multiplexing and sharing of bandwidth. KCBS continues to look better.

The point is that the old gold standard of local OTA via direct connection is dying and that very few broadcasters actually broadcast the main HD in the full 19Mbs. In other words, now the local OTA is now an "HD lite" service, as well and, for the most part, should not be used as a reference to evaluate Dish HD PQ. It is all becoming degraded these days and will probably get worse, but still look "good" but not the really noticeably "GREAT" that full 19Mbs can provide. Very sad.

 

[whatchel1]

1 big problem is we got it wrong here in the US. We should never have done the digital w/ MPEG 2. In Europe I have found out that they waited to transition to digital as MPEG 4. This way they can give you more w/ the same bandwidth. I hope in a few yrs that we can go to a new standard here in the states too.

 

[LASooner]

I was watching a basketball game at my In-Laws yesterday, they have the exact same Sony LED TV I do, except they have Direct TV, and I have Dish, When I came home to watch the rest of the game, they quality was noticeably worse on my screen. So I really question what you guys are seeing lately, especially when it comes to ESPN broadcasts. Both set to 720p, both using HDMI with motionflow 120hz activated.

 

[whatchel1]

I was watching a basketball game at my In-Laws yesterday, they have the exact same Sony LED TV I do, except they have Direct TV, and I have Dish, When I came home to watch the rest of the game, they quality was noticeably worse on my screen. So I really question what you guys are seeing lately, especially when it comes to ESPN broadcasts. Both set to 720p, both using HDMI with motionflow 120hz activated.

Then something is set wrong or the sets by $ony have quality differences between the sets. There should be little difference tween the D* signal & the E* signal.

 

[LASooner]

The MPEG compression was worse on my 622 feed than on the Direct TV box. My TV was calibrated as of 2 weeks ago. I'm a CG artist by profession, so image quality is my job. The dish signal was worse.

 

[3HaloODST]

Anyone can claim that their job revolves around TV PQ, but the bottom line is that 95% of people say that there is little difference in DirecTV and DISH Network HD quality. I've seen both for myself, and I am very finicky about these things. Very minute difference.

It is also confirmed that ESPN PQ is not that great across multiple pay TV providers, including DirecTV, and it is not isolated just to DISH Network.

 

[LASooner]

Anyone can claim that their job revolves around TV PQ

John McGinley - IMDb

I've made enough DVD's and Blu Ray discs to know what bad mpeg artifacting looks like. The fact is that the same game on the same channel and same model TV looked dramatically worse with the Dish Network signal.