The new 811 software ver 265 is here!
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sprite1741 said:
I am overdriving the cr*p out of my TV on s-video. But when I switch to DVD, the picture is terrible in the overbright direction. I use my receiver to switch the s-video, so its not possible to store different settings in the TV for the 811 and DVD.
Comparing the 811 s-video to DVI-D outputs, I don't see too much difference. Both are too dark, and there isn't any detail in the blacks. Increasing the brightness just gives a washed out picture with no still detail in the blacks. It's a classic "crushed blacks" image. The Planar PX-171M is a great LCD, maybe the best 17" out there. When hooked to a PC and playing a DVD, the images are gorgeous. On the 811, the image is mediocre be it OTA SD, OTA HD, Dish SD or Dish HD. I do know about image quality standards, used to design professional video equipment for Sony in the mid 1980's. Sony had a full bandwidth analog HD system back then, and demonstrated it at Montreux [CH] Television Symposium 1983.
Never did see a clarification of the 811 hardware differences between the P26xLABD and P26xLADD softwares, if any. After almost 4 months with the 811, it is easy to believe the dark picture is a hardware problem, that maybe Dish can kludge in software. Unless I get the picture I expect from a HD receiver, this thing is going to ebay. Didn't get a reply from Dish support yet, asking about the dark picture and software fix.
Keith.
sprite1741 said:
You can't really overdrive a DLP. Even if you do crank up the contrast or brightness it has no effect on the lifespan of the set or lamp. My DVI input is adjusted correctly according to the test patterns on DVE and AVIA. As I stated previously I don't use S-video or Composite or watch SD on the 811 so I can't comment on those issues.
I would be interested in hearing if any other owners of DLP or LCD sets are experiencing picture problems through DVI. Anyone?
NightRyder
I have a 65 inch rear projection so burn in is an issue for me. If I adjust the brightness and contrast to get a decent pic with my 811 they are almost at max, and the pic still doesn't look right. Then DVD and VHS are way too bright and washed out. Since I unsubscribed the 811 my brightness and contrast are close to mid range and all input modes look the same. I havent been in the TV's menu making adjustments either. I don't like the image from upconverted SD on the DVI so s-video is a must have. My 811 may end up on ebay if the next update doesn't fix it. Can't get a decent answer from customer service, they just say it's a known problem and they are working on it.
sprite1741 said:
You can still use the 811 for OTA DTV and HD, even without subscrition, I believe, as long as it can get a lock on a Dish sat. Also, why not use it for the HD Pack stuff, too, if you're paying? Of course, you'd need a 2nd feed from the dish(es).
sprite1741 said:
You ain't the only one. Like I've said before..."tick tick tick".
As a matter of fact, that'll be my new sig.
GaryPen said:
That's true but I have a built in OTA tuner in the TV. Most of my watching is movie channels since I have the everything package. I might miss a movie or two in HD. For now I am just waiting to see what will happen by the end of this month. That's when the CSR said it will be fixed. If they can fix it then I am only out a few weeks of HD. If they can't then I may to work out something.
bsic said:
I wonder if the reason some are noticing a reduction in detail in dark parts of the picture might be related to differences in display technology. Since CRT based display's are superior at reproducing blacks compared to DLP or LCD, and when properly adjusted have less light output. Subtle changes in dark picture details and light output may be more noticeable on these type of display's than say DLP. It might be a case of not missing what we didn't see in the first place
Just a thought.NightRyder
NightRyder said:I wonder if the reason some are noticing a reduction in detail in dark parts of the picture might be related to differences in display technology. Since CRT based display's are superior at reproducing blacks compared to DLP or LCD, and when properly adjusted have less light output. Subtle changes in dark picture details and light output may be more noticeable on these type of display's than say DLP. It might be a case of not missing what we didn't see in the first place
NightRyder
Excellent theory!
I don't often watch TV programming with my projector, using it mainly for DVD. But, now that you mention it, I don't really notice the loss of gray detail when using it. OTOH, it is readily apparent on my direct-view. (I also use Component In on the PJ, and DVI on the TV, if that makes a dif.)
I have used a regular Sony TV (27" CRT) and a Panasonic LCD projector on s-video, Planar LCD 17" monitor on DVI-D. All are way too dark. The TV is easiest to crank up the birghtness, but there is no detail in the blacks no matter what settings I try. the DVI-D is very similar quality. I am interested to know if there are hardware differences in the 811 between the LABD and LADD softwares that might account for this, but doubt that Dish will give me that level of detail. I am a little encouraged by the fact that the DVI-D digital output is as bad as the s-video analog output. Just fix the digital bits and both outputs will be good.
Swapping the Planar from the 811 to a PC is like night and day. DVD's from the PC look fabulous. When the 811 looks as good, I will be satisfied.
Keith.
Swapping the Planar from the 811 to a PC is like night and day. DVD's from the PC look fabulous. When the 811 looks as good, I will be satisfied.
Keith.
keith said:
Don't mean to throw salt on your wounds or add to your frustration but the HD/DVI picture from my 811 is noticeably superior to DVD.
Does your LCD monitor have a DVI input or are you connecting through your PC's video card?
NightRyder
NightRyder said:
DVI from PC to monitor. Yes, I know HD should look terrific on the 811. Makes me think my 811 is defective, or the P26xLABD's and P26xLADD's are different and waiting for new software is a waste of time. Still waiting to hear from Dish support.
Keith.
keith said:
Hmm... Well that could account for things the 720p on the 811 is not very good from what I have been hearing and 480p is not HD. I would not expect great results. What was the source material you used to test it with?
WeeJavaDude said:
I presume it is possible for the image to transform from dark and useless to bright and wonderful by changing from 720P to 1080I, but I am very skeptical. 720P is a legitimate HD setting, and is the native resolution for all but the very top dollar HD displays. Tonight I will try to get the Planar to scale to 1080I correctly. It is only a PC monitor so maybe it doesn't support 1080I. The image does lock but is too big and shifted way off to the right.
My issue is not so much with the resolution, the image is just way too dark and the blacks are crushed. I really don't expect changing from 720P to 1080I to make any difference to that.
Source material is OTA SD and HD, and Dish SD and HD. I have nothing to drive the 811 back panel inputs, at least, nothing with HD quality.
Keith.
The dark/loss of gray detail/crushed blacks issue (whatever one wishes to call it)is evident in 1080i, as well.
keith said:
My understanding 720p on the 811 actually takes the 1080i, downscales it to 480p and upconverts to 720p. I cannot confirm this but that is what some people have said.
The source material used would also produce different PQ results from HDNet to Discovery HD to OTA SD/HD or SD upcast would give different PQ to the viewer. All these different source produce a variety of different results with the 811 add on top that HD quality is all over the map depending on what you are watching and you have a mixed bag of stuff.
720p is a legitimate HD setting. When I tried it on my TV I was not happy with it. Other people have commented the same. That is why I brought it up..
To get a true feel I suggest using Discovery. This will give you an idea of the top end PQ. Then try a Dish SD, this will give you the bottom end. As to the darkness and useless comment, I never said changing resolutions would produce magic, however with the 811 and the svideo/componsite issues it just might.
Cheers.
Best I can tell after days of playing w/ my 811 after the 265 upgrade is that OTA channel mapping appears to be fixed and has remained fixed since my re-scan after the software upgrade.
Also, my one problem channel for DTV OTA reception, on again, off again, has been on since the 265 upgrade and at 78 to 80%. Prior to 265, this channel only locked on certain days and times (no pattern), and when it locked it was at 74-74%. Now it just might be coincidence, but maybe 265 actually did something to better deal with multi-path. In general, signal strength on all of my OTA DTV channels is up a few points since the 265 upgrade. Then again, it could just be the unseasonably warm weather we have been having in metro-Denver the past week and a half.
Disappointing that the dark PQ issue still hasn't been addressed.
More disappointing is that 265 introduced the problem of multiple loops of updating the Guide from satellite.
Also, my one problem channel for DTV OTA reception, on again, off again, has been on since the 265 upgrade and at 78 to 80%. Prior to 265, this channel only locked on certain days and times (no pattern), and when it locked it was at 74-74%. Now it just might be coincidence, but maybe 265 actually did something to better deal with multi-path. In general, signal strength on all of my OTA DTV channels is up a few points since the 265 upgrade. Then again, it could just be the unseasonably warm weather we have been having in metro-Denver the past week and a half.
Disappointing that the dark PQ issue still hasn't been addressed.
More disappointing is that 265 introduced the problem of multiple loops of updating the Guide from satellite.
The new version seems to have improved my OTA reception from my CBS station. Went from 67-70 to 78-80. Much less disruption in the signal. Everything else is the same few problems still remain.
I had the multipule updating loop problem prior to the 265 update. I just got the reciever a month ago.
Overall I am happy with the update.
I had the multipule updating loop problem prior to the 265 update. I just got the reciever a month ago.
Overall I am happy with the update.
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