One can buy Shaw Direct receivers new from stores and used from eBay without having to subscribe to their service. You actually have to enter Shaw's provider ID during the setup process, so it would seem they are not completely hardwired to Shaw. That doesn't mean the factory default firmware would work on HITS. Nevertheless some wizards got the DSR-410 to function this way, and it was indeed a Shaw (nee Star Choice) receiver.
The Future, The Truth, 4DTV, 410
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Does the 410 function in the same manner as the 9XX's in that beyond the satellite table, the tuner essentially tunes the IF, which is essentially the same for both bands?
From a FW perspective, it seems the big challenge would be to allow a non USA model to accept USA C&Ku channel tables (and God know what other support tables...DCII gotta love it...lol) As pointed out it was done for the 410, at least for W5 programming. If the IRD could be told "this is what else to look for" perhaps the rest may possibly fall into place. Someone adept in DCII code and table manipulation could possible patch in all the relevant info, but it would still need to be authorized to be able to decrypt the signal.
I suspect a major snag will be authorization control at least on pre-authorized *C units. It does seem to be a challenge that hopefully there are folks available that can master them.
So, the consensus is to maintain our 4D subs to the bitter end to 12/31/10 and hope we have a viable solution by then? My (3mo) renewal doesnt fall evenly on the quarter so I've got to work that out.
I believe a new receiver would lead to "new blood" for the service. Without it DCII subbers are essentially dieing off by attrition.
Another thing to help promote new subs would be a serious study into making the smallest usable minibud possible that is as 2° compliant as possible. I think a 3 meter HOA compliant version may be an unrealistic goal, but 4' should be within reasonable limits.
Hi Tim,
Definitely glad to have you here! Thanks for the info and support of our lil' niche interests. I thought I read somewhere that Skyvision will authorize any 410 unit now, not just the ones they re-sell. Can you (or anyone) comment on that?
From a FW perspective, it seems the big challenge would be to allow a non USA model to accept USA C&Ku channel tables (and God know what other support tables...DCII gotta love it...lol) As pointed out it was done for the 410, at least for W5 programming. If the IRD could be told "this is what else to look for" perhaps the rest may possibly fall into place. Someone adept in DCII code and table manipulation could possible patch in all the relevant info, but it would still need to be authorized to be able to decrypt the signal.
I suspect a major snag will be authorization control at least on pre-authorized *C units. It does seem to be a challenge that hopefully there are folks available that can master them.
So, the consensus is to maintain our 4D subs to the bitter end to 12/31/10 and hope we have a viable solution by then? My (3mo) renewal doesnt fall evenly on the quarter so I've got to work that out.
I believe a new receiver would lead to "new blood" for the service. Without it DCII subbers are essentially dieing off by attrition.
Another thing to help promote new subs would be a serious study into making the smallest usable minibud possible that is as 2° compliant as possible. I think a 3 meter HOA compliant version may be an unrealistic goal, but 4' should be within reasonable limits.
Hi Tim,
Definitely glad to have you here! Thanks for the info and support of our lil' niche interests. I thought I read somewhere that Skyvision will authorize any 410 unit now, not just the ones they re-sell. Can you (or anyone) comment on that?
I emailed Skyvision and for a one time (non-refundable) $40 fee, they will check your unit ID and get it mapped in for subscribing. I will be going this route, as I have a DSR410 that I paid $17 for, so added to the $40, I'll have a sub-able 410 for 57 bucks!
:up
So many Questions, So few Answers
It looks as though everybody is sitting tight/. Notice little if any changes to websites of 4DTV providers. Perhaps waiting for the other shoe to drop?
Possible litigation? Who knows. I don't see why your set up should not work for sat acquisition after the 4DTV discontinuation. It is just that the 920 & 922 are old workhorses and they are nearing the end of their useful lives. There is at present no new receiver available to do the job. We do need that!
You all have computers so try wwitv.com for some channels we probably will never get normally even with the best of setups. Picture quality fair at best but interesting channel surfing anyway....
Best Wishes.
It looks as though everybody is sitting tight/. Notice little if any changes to websites of 4DTV providers. Perhaps waiting for the other shoe to drop?
Possible litigation? Who knows. I don't see why your set up should not work for sat acquisition after the 4DTV discontinuation. It is just that the 920 & 922 are old workhorses and they are nearing the end of their useful lives. There is at present no new receiver available to do the job. We do need that!
You all have computers so try wwitv.com for some channels we probably will never get normally even with the best of setups. Picture quality fair at best but interesting channel surfing anyway....
Best Wishes.
Thanks for the info Euro. I couldnt recall exactly what it was I had read. So, the non refundable being if it cant be subbed your just SOL?
Wonder what would render it an unsubable box, a unit ID that has a balance? That would seem silly since it is a completely different SSP and the balance cant be cleared from the original SSP.
I too picked one up at a HAM fest a few months back. It powers up but I didnt really spend a lot of time verifying operation, or know exactly what to do/where to point to do so. I meant to get on here and ask for guidance, but the spring 6 meter opening was pretty good this year so I got side tracked....lol
In light of the current status/future of consumer DCII programming, perhaps to maintain the 4D customer base Skyvision would waive the "compensation" fee, or maybe I could check for a balance myself somehow. I've done it w/DN irds by calling their CSR number and running the receiver number. Guess I need to drag that thing out and take a closer look at it.
Hey, why stop at the 410 or even wish for a Uber DCII box. What about a CAS/CAM system for a DCII capable Genpix operated by Sky/SRL? How much of the combo/mega processing is hardware based and how much if any could be done on the PC side of the system? I'm sure Mr Genpix would be happy to work with whoever the powers that be are to develop a compatible HW/SW PC based solution. I know it's not an STB solution, but it would be a next gen solution to consumer DCII subscriptions in the US until if/when an uber box is realized.
Wonder what would render it an unsubable box, a unit ID that has a balance? That would seem silly since it is a completely different SSP and the balance cant be cleared from the original SSP.
I too picked one up at a HAM fest a few months back. It powers up but I didnt really spend a lot of time verifying operation, or know exactly what to do/where to point to do so. I meant to get on here and ask for guidance, but the spring 6 meter opening was pretty good this year so I got side tracked....lol
In light of the current status/future of consumer DCII programming, perhaps to maintain the 4D customer base Skyvision would waive the "compensation" fee, or maybe I could check for a balance myself somehow. I've done it w/DN irds by calling their CSR number and running the receiver number. Guess I need to drag that thing out and take a closer look at it.
Hey, why stop at the 410 or even wish for a Uber DCII box. What about a CAS/CAM system for a DCII capable Genpix operated by Sky/SRL? How much of the combo/mega processing is hardware based and how much if any could be done on the PC side of the system? I'm sure Mr Genpix would be happy to work with whoever the powers that be are to develop a compatible HW/SW PC based solution. I know it's not an STB solution, but it would be a next gen solution to consumer DCII subscriptions in the US until if/when an uber box is realized.
This isn't going to happen. Anything we get on W5 is mooching off the commercial service provided by HITS. The 920, 922 and DSR-410 are compatible with some of these DCII streams, but not all. Unless a receiver is identified that can demod and decrypt the more modern modulations, Comcast is not going to switch to a different format simply for chicken feed from a handful of 4DTV refugees.
DCII is a closed and proprietary system owned by Motorola. To date they have shown little interest in licensing it to others, which would be required to get a full-up Genpix system to function. All of the demodulation and decryption would have to be done in the tuner. You won't see this implemented on a PC for a variety of technical and security reasons. Something like a Shaw Direct or a commercial receiver is the only boat that's going to float.
The word they used was valid. They had to check the unit ID to make sure it's valid.
This leads me to believe more so to a possible corrupted unit ID rather than one with a balance- IF they could tell about balances anyway. I haven't called mine in yet but will soon. We are presently looking at a bigger house, in town, so if my current place sells and we move, all this stuff will be put on hold, 'cause I'll have a bunch of dishes to transplant! 
Hey PD, how ya been. Yeah, I wasnt expecting the 410 to do any more than it does, or Comcast for that matter. We are probably very fortunate they even allow us to "mooch" to begin with. As to a nextgen Genpix/PC solution, it was a thinking outside the box (pun intended...lol) thing. I know the modulation scheme, hence tuner/HW is more complicated and less documented compared to DVB, and that isnt even accounting for whatever extra combo/megapipe adds to the mix. The real (relevant) proprietary part being the encryption/authorization technology, and yes it didnt occur to me the potential of that being RE'd and bypassed if done in public domain PC based software. Where I was going was if the Genpix HW demod schemes are compatible or upgradeable to include the combo/mega streams and an add on CAS that was controlled by Sky/SRL, it would be a stop gap and allow for some potential growth in the sub base without the immediate need to roll out an Uber IRD. The CAS/CAM would have to comply with the RS part of the DCII-RS system that has already been planned for if it was ever needed. The CAS/CAM assy would obviously need to be interfaced at the tuner/HW section of the Genpix. Unfortunately I agree that Big M has been less that indifferent on the subject of sharing/licensing the technology, and without some co-operation, development is just another item on the "wish list". I think we are probably in the same boat on a Shaw/*C IRD for the same reason.
I was talking to a HAM buddy of mine that has no association with satellite stuff about DCII and he asked isnt it old enough for the patent to run out? I had no idea how to respond. Patents do run out, (look at Duponte and freon) but does that apply to this type of intellectual property? HMMM.....you know M definitely wouldnt want that publicly known if it does.....lol Of course that doesnt mean one could legally compromise the decryption, the DMCA would still cover that, but it does make an interesting hypothetical thought to ponder.
Euro, Yeah, valid...that makes more sense, but 40 bucks! Then again they did loose a sale so maybe they figure that's fair compensation. The non-refundable part is the part I've got issue with if it's a dud. I suspect this is to curb someone from snapping up a pallet of them, verifying the unit ID without authorizing them and then underselling Skyvision on Fleabay. I wonder if there is some 410 guideline data around like the 9XX's that gives the valid range of UIDs so one can pre-screen it before calling it in. Hmmmm....Let me add that to the "to Google" list....lol
Move to town?...that just sounds like a move backwards to me....lol. One good thing about re-locating and re-pointing is that you can start with a known number of dishing in a virgin space and can take into account all tree, elevation and best location variables before you sink the first pole...AKA a PLAN!
...pending the XYL's approval of course. Just give here the MC and tell her to take a shopping day in the city. Nothing heals a womans bad attitude like spending money.....lol.
Be sure to document the dish exodus and any innovative designs with photos, or in the word of our lil green buddy...PICS, PICS, PICS.....lol
I was talking to a HAM buddy of mine that has no association with satellite stuff about DCII and he asked isnt it old enough for the patent to run out? I had no idea how to respond. Patents do run out, (look at Duponte and freon) but does that apply to this type of intellectual property? HMMM.....you know M definitely wouldnt want that publicly known if it does.....lol Of course that doesnt mean one could legally compromise the decryption, the DMCA would still cover that, but it does make an interesting hypothetical thought to ponder.
Euro, Yeah, valid...that makes more sense, but 40 bucks! Then again they did loose a sale so maybe they figure that's fair compensation. The non-refundable part is the part I've got issue with if it's a dud. I suspect this is to curb someone from snapping up a pallet of them, verifying the unit ID without authorizing them and then underselling Skyvision on Fleabay. I wonder if there is some 410 guideline data around like the 9XX's that gives the valid range of UIDs so one can pre-screen it before calling it in. Hmmmm....Let me add that to the "to Google" list....lol
Move to town?...that just sounds like a move backwards to me....lol. One good thing about re-locating and re-pointing is that you can start with a known number of dishing in a virgin space and can take into account all tree, elevation and best location variables before you sink the first pole...AKA a PLAN!
...pending the XYL's approval of course. Just give here the MC and tell her to take a shopping day in the city. Nothing heals a womans bad attitude like spending money.....lol.
Be sure to document the dish exodus and any innovative designs with photos, or in the word of our lil green buddy...PICS, PICS, PICS.....lol
I wish you the best and hope that it comes to pass. I stopped buying HBO and other packages when NPS said that Motorola was planning to discontinue support of the system. I used to spend over $600 per year on programming for my 4DTV, but frankly, I don't miss it. There's plenty of free TV out there. If you guys market a reasonably priced product with a guarantee that you won't go off the air before my subscription runs out, I may consider returning to pay TV.
Battery
I find the batteries going bad an interesting because when I replaced my 2 920 receiver batteries both measured just like a new battery. Changed them anyway.
If the sub goes too high will use for a dish mover.
I find the batteries going bad an interesting because when I replaced my 2 920 receiver batteries both measured just like a new battery. Changed them anyway.
If the sub goes too high will use for a dish mover.
lithium batteries will hold a steady voltage through out their life and will just die all of a sudden, so it was great that you changed them when you did as all 920's should be near the end of their battery life by now. i will sub to W5 as long as i can as my bell sub sucks and just use it for local news and the TSN channels.
Do you plan on putting anything on W5 for us News junkies ? CNBC, MSNBC, CNN, Fox News Channel all went down with the G3 I called once about Fox News channel being down a couple years ago and got the impression Skyvision didn't like them (the rep sneered a bit about it and said it was skewed news. Think his name was Chad) Despite that incident, Ive never had any problems with Skyvision and appreciate their ability to help us out, crossing my fingers its profitable enough for them.
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You all have computers so try wwitv.com for some channels we probably will never get normally even with the best of setups. Picture quality fair at best but interesting channel surfing anyway....
Best Wishes.
May want to try filmon.com as well. Wish I had uncapped internet, then I could watch TV online. Unfortunately for some of us the reason we got a big dish was because we're pretty rural and internet access is compromised as well.
Dear Tim - Not sure if you are still active on this site but I was interested in a update. I have programming-center sub which in the last billing indicated it is terminating in Dec. As a newbie to this site I am wondering if there is any programming that will remain available to the 4DTV receivers? In August your post indicates programming may continue of W5?
SRL will not be adding any channels to W5 as they can not, HITS is in control of what is on W5 which revolves around the needs of the small cable companies using it. I believe SRL is trying to get us all of the compatible channels on W5 like SoapNet, and maybe Showtime.
Everything here that is not green is compatible with 4DTV/410. HITS Quantum on AMC 18 at 105.0°W - LyngSat
As for news, one must learn to live with Bloomburg on W5, C-SPAN on Analog, and national news shows from local over the air channels. Then there is always the internet.
Mike Kohl said in one of the sattalk shows that there could be a possibility of getting HITS to turn around a few channels for a fee on W5 for us. IMO This would have to do with how profitable it would be. There would have to be good numbers of subscribers to support this. If HITS wanted to they could drop megapipe modulation mode on a few channels on the other birds real easy. The headends would not even know because the decoder in place would automatically adjust to 29270 split. The 4DTV's would then be able to decode those channels.
If I were Comcast I would look into this if this becomes a success on W5. If you think about it HITS has most of everything one would want on the other birds. They could easily compete with Dish network and DirecTv by just doing a bit of reconfiguring. Comcast seems anxious to work with SRL from what Zimmy (Tim from SRL) said. This is actually a good thing, better news then what we have heard for the last couple years with Motorola and NPS.
If I were Comcast I would look into this if this becomes a success on W5. If you think about it HITS has most of everything one would want on the other birds. They could easily compete with Dish network and DirecTv by just doing a bit of reconfiguring. Comcast seems anxious to work with SRL from what Zimmy (Tim from SRL) said. This is actually a good thing, better news then what we have heard for the last couple years with Motorola and NPS.
To those who don't know what we're talking about.
If HITS were to switch from combo mode to the old regular mode on their other satellite we would then have the ability to tune these channels.
HITS Quantum on SES 1 at 101.0°W - LyngSat
If HITS were to switch from combo mode to the old regular mode on their other satellite we would then have the ability to tune these channels.
HITS Quantum on SES 1 at 101.0°W - LyngSat
Hate to bust everyone's bubble but thats not going to happen. This is all about money people and the sub scrip base for 4D has dropped to a level where its not making money. Plus Comcast and Motorola do not want the hassle of consumer equipment and the hassle of dealing with general public for digicipher. This has been in the works for a long time, Comcast and Motorolla want the general public dealing with the pizza dish people or your local cable company. The other factor is Disney and the major content providers increasing/wanting more fee's for broadcasting their content. Most are demanding concessions "must carry"-(all of their channels) and they are winning these battles. Ive been in the Satellite business a long time and been through all the advancements, the worst thing that happened for consumers is when Comcast basically gained control. The FCC has turned into a bunch of wimps and is not looking out for the American people's intrests but looking out for big business profit.
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