The future of SkyAngel: speculation and general rambling

[mwgiii]

One thing to discuss is that Echostar 3 is dying. According to JohnH it lost another transponder this week.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=50503

This is the satellite which Sky Angel uses to broacast their service. The contract between Dish & Sky Angel is for the life of Echostar 3. That life is speeding up. Since Sky Angel doesn't have their own satellite, what is the backup plan to keep broadcasting if Echostar 3 's Sky Angel transponders die?

 

[rtt2]

If you look at old pages of skyangel.com on archive.com you will see that sky angel has said they plan on launching a satellite for years now. So I would not put too much faith in them actually following through in its launch.

 

[Stargazer]

Looks like SkyAngel will die along with the satellite that they are using. Maybe Dish Network will lease them some space over there once it dies.

 

[mattb]

Looks like SkyAngel will die along with the satellite that they are using. Maybe Dish Network will lease them some space over there once it dies.

Remeber E* is using some of Skyangel's owned transponders right now in trade for the satellite lease.. Sure its a "long shot" but if E3 died, I would not be suprised if the relationship contiuned in some form for E* to contiune to use those Conus transponders at 61.5... remeber E* wants to carry a lot of HD locals, they have to have some place to transmit them.

 

[Stargazer]

How much space does SkyAngel's channels use up compared to the space that Charlie would get from those transponders that he is using from them?

 

[TNGTony]

How much space does SkyAngel's channels use up compared to the space that Charlie would get from those transponders that he is using from them?

Huh????

Dish gains 6 transponders from the Sky Angel deal. Sky Angel owns the licences for 8 transponders at 61.5 (transponders 25-32). They struck a deal with Dish. Dish uplinks Sky Angels programming to E*3. In return, Sky Angel leases Dish 6 of the 8 transponders they own. If the deal goes south and it isn't renewed, Sky Angel may try to contract with some one else to get at satellite over to 61.5, but Dish CANNOT USE THE TRANSPONDERS. If Sky Angel defaults on the FCC commitments, they lose their license, but Dish STILL cannot use tp 25-32. Dish would have to buy the licenses if the FCC will let them. Currently the FCC has been balking at selling Dish the two unassigned licenses at 61.5 (23 and 24).

See ya
Tony

 

[Stargazer]

SkyAngel probably wouldn't have anything to worry about then if they keep the same agreement they have with another satellite that would go to 61.5.

 

[RVD420]

I could very well see Dish putting the screws to Skyangel.

I would not put it past Dish to require Skyangel to sign over ownership of the leased TPs in order to continue to use a new sat when the Space Junk known as E3 gives up the ghost.

This information is not the current, but it gives a idea of what condition E3 is in.
http://www.sat-index.com/failures/echo3.html

 

[TNGTony]

Something like that would have to pass muster with the FCC. I doubth they would approve.

See ya
Tony

 

[RedSavina]

Something like that would have to pass muster with the FCC. I doubth they would approve.

See ya
Tony

As Tony has pointed out in a couple of posts, the contract between Echostar and Dominion trumps all other variables in the Dish/SkyAngel relationship. The FCC simply will not allow either party to leverage the other (barring an abrupt shift in government policy). The only conceivable way the contract could change is if both parties were amenable. At present I can only imagine two such scenarios: 1) some sort of swap of transponder space, or 2) a catastrophic equipment failure.

In either scenario, the "new" contract would be heavily influenced by the terms of the current contract. For those who (erroneously) suggest that Echostar could manipulate things to their end, here is an equally off-base scenario to illustrate my point:

For the sake of argument, assume that the satellite continues to degrade to the point that only half of the available transponders are functional, yet all of the Dominion transponders survive the catastrophe (call it an act of God). <-- pun intended

Would Echostar dictate the transponder use as the satellite owner?

Would Dominion dictate the transponder use as the designated owner of a large percentage of the remaining transponders?

I believe that until a replacement asset - likely funded through insurance - was in orbit to relieve the damaged one, both companies would control transponder content on a pro-rata basis.
​

Cheers,
Red

 

[jegrant]

I tend to agree - any new contract would probably be substantially similar to the old contract.

And in the event of a catastrophic satellite failure which still left some transponders operational, I wouldn't be surprised (since Dominion is only using 2 TPs anyway) if the agreement says as long as 2 transponders on E*3 are capable of transmission on 2 of the 8 Dominion-owned TPs, that Dominion gets the use of them.

Although I must admit as a lifelong subscription holder, my strong preference would be for Dominion to go ahead and launch their own satellite, I realize this probably isn't yet feasible. At the very least, I hope that in 2006, they are able to put their Florida uplink center online and start doing their own authorizations.

(It occurs to me, that even in the event of Echostar replacing E*3, they would need to at the very least negotiate a transition agreement with SA*, because they'd need to continue to use some Dominion-licensed TPs until customers of the appropriate locals and/or internationals were switched to an alternative (e.g. SuperDISH).)

 

[RedSavina]

At the very least, I hope that in 2006, they are able to put their Florida uplink center online and start doing their own authorizations.

First I've seen reference to Dominion's future plans tied to a date. Do you have anything to support your statement or is it just wishful thinking?

Likewise, I've not come across reference to a plan for an uplink center. Do you have a reference on this?

Unless I've suffered a brain lapse, the only things I can recall reading regarding future plans have involved satellites "in the future".

I would love for this to happen! If they started doing their own authorizations (assuming the contract with Echostar permits), I wonder what the impact would be for non-Dish customers with DVRs (DVR fee), multiple IRDs (outlet fees), etc. Kind of academic for me as I currently have a bit of Dish programming.

----------------------

Another thought occurred to me on this. Dish seems to be taking the position that all future programming additions and receivers will be MPEG4. If they follow through on this agressive stance what will happen to SA? I've been operating under the assumption that SA could not afford to move to MPEG4 due to the cost of upgrading their subscriber base. However, if Dish ends up footing a majority of this bill for dual customers over the next year or so SA could benefit with a much smaller base of SA-only customer who would need equipment upgrades/converters. If so, SA would be well served to wait patiently for Dish to do the heavy lifting. Lord knows they could benefit from the additional capacity that MPEG4 offers over MPEG2!

Along the same lines, if MPEG4 became a factor for SA they could then transition some programming to MPEG4 (new programming, too) and use this as an enticement to get customers to purchase the new equipment/converters. If so, I hope they treat their customers with decency and respect during the transition.

Another interesting possibility includes what to do with lifetime subscribers; and the tiered approach to programming takes on a whole new light. Hmmm, much to ponder if there was a realistic path to MPEG4 for Dominion!

Cheers,
Red

 

[Stargazer]

I bet Dominion would'nt mind getting 72 where they could have a dish like the Dish500 to work with their system in addition to 61.5.

 

[RedSavina]

I bet Dominion would'nt mind getting 72 where they could have a dish like the Dish500 to work with their system in addition to 61.5.

Do you have any more info on 72W? I took a quick peek at LyngSat and saw no indication of it being available (there are some feeds and spanish channels). Is it available? If so, is there a date for auction/sale? If not, who owns it?

Thanks,
Red

 

[andrews777]

I do hope Dish realizes the value of many SkyAngel customers. I was a loyal Dish customer for about 6-7 years because that was the only way to also get SkyAngel. I they "go it alone", I would more seriously consider cable and DirectTV.

Right now I have no Dish programming because I am trimming debt, but that will end at some point and it would be a shame for Dish to loose customers over bullheadedness.

Brad

 

[rtt2]

My question is:
Could it make more sense fore Sky Angel to go all Free To Air (FSS). They could get a better orbital slot. and serve more people, and increase there programming capacity.
In fact SA* could sell off their existing frequencies for the ability to buy a new slot and capacity.
In fact SA* and E* could come to an agreement whereby they swap frequencies. E* already has frequencies and long term leases on satellites in place.
All E* receivers are capable of receiving programming from those slots and the SuperDish technology is capable of getting multiple slots for customers who wish to get other basic E* programming.
SA* need E* more than ever now that Criplestar is dying. They could really benefit by getting a new slot and even more broadcast capacity for future programming.

 

[Derwin0]

Do you have any more info on 72W? I took a quick peek at LyngSat and saw no indication of it being available (there are some feeds and spanish channels). Is it available? If so, is there a date for auction/sale? If not, w

72.5 is a Canadian slot, owned by Telesat (sister company of Bell Expressvu). It is currently being leased to Directv in exchange for use of a Directv satellite for use by Bell Expressvu at 91.

 

[Bob Haller]

I am surprised SA has tried to buy a used bird from any provider. Since the dont need many transponders its a viable alternative.