super deep fringe? (150 miles?)

[mastermesh]

Is something like this:

HDTV OUTDOOR ANTENNA

that advertises to be able to pick up tv signals ota for 140 miles for real!?!?

What's the best deep fringe antennas like this, if they actually work? I'm pretty much smack dab in the middle of Missouri, half way between St. Louis and KC. If something like this actually worked, in theory, I'd be able to set up something like this on a roter and get channels statewide!

Kinda hoping it would work, but definitely won't hold my breathe...



Anyone use a super deep fringe antenna like this, if so how far can you get tv signals receptions? In the past, long distance = snow. With digital, I'm not so sure that'd be the case...

 

[rwjga]

With digital, it is an all or nothing type of thing. If you are receiving an acceptal signal, you will have a sharp picture, otherwise, you will see dropouts and lost of signal. Almost all OTA HD channels are in the UHF range. A quick look at the antenna you are looking at shows it is both a VHF and UHF antenna. The UHF part looks like it would not be one of the better ones for UHF signal reception, but you should compare the spectifications to other UHF antenna's to be sure. I can not receive stations with a Channel Master top of the line HD UHF antenna beyond about 60 miles, but I live in the montains of WNC, so that may not be same for flatlanders.

 

[Jim5506]

Manufacturers mileage estimates are almost always imaginatively inflated.

VHF reception is realistically limited to under 100 miles and UHF more like 65 miles or so.

If the transmitting antenna is on a high mountain and the receiving antenna is also on a high mountain one might get reception at 140 miles.

The basic rule ineffect here is that the signal strength is proportional to the inverse square of the distance (from 10 miles to 20 miles the signal drops to 1/4 of what it was at 10 miles).

So, the best case scenario says at 140 miles you get 1/4 the signal you get at 70 miles.

 

[mastermesh]

VHF reception is realistically limited to under 100 miles and UHF more like 65 miles or so.

You give me some hope in this.

St. Louis is definitely out... but KC is realistically only approximately 102 miles down I-70.

Antenna web indicates that we can't get any KC reception here, but that in Sedalia, which is about 30 miles closer to KC than we are, they can get KC channels. Sedalia is about 70 miles out from KC. It also says that Sedalia can get UFF signals as far away as Lawrence, KS, which is about 20 minutes on the other side of KC.

It's also saying that 6 of those 8 KC stations that Sedalia can get are VHF.... violet color on antenna web. If they are violet for someplace 30 miles closer than here, would it work here with a longer range antenna like the 140-150 mile range ones?

If this 140 mile range thing can get 100 miles, I'm guessing it might be possible. It just sucks that there's no way to know without actually buying one, and buying something specialty like this can probably only be done online instead of locally.

Might be nice to get ION affiliate, KPXE.

Oh well... probably not worth it though. Best to just stick with local stuff and fta for now I guess.

 

[stogie5150]

Make damn sure you get a preamp with whatever antenna you buy, doing that will make sure you can use whatever signal your antenna gets for you.

Good luck, BTW, I'd hate to have the problem you do.....too many variables.

 

[oljim]

They also sell Terk ants. so I would not belive any thing they say, only a Jerk would sell you a Terk

 

[Larry1]

Are you going to put it on top of a 100ft tower? Any obstructions in the line of sight can be a factor in receiving the signal that far away. In my situation I am 59.2 miles from Toronto and do not receiive their digital signals. They are also extremely low powered. (well very sporatically I can receive them) I am 71.0 miles from Buffalo Grand Island and receive WNGS very strong. I am 92.8 miles from Buffalo south and only receive their signal on very good days. (once or twice a month) Now my antenna is about 35 feet in the air, but should be about 60 feet. With a 60 foot plus tower Toronto and Buffalo would come in. (other people in town can receive these channels fine) I have a large hill blocking my Toronto signal, and am not on a high point of ground. The trees in my neighbourhood are mature and tall causing even more issues for signal reception. I also can periodically receive Syracuse NY which is about 120 miles. I am using my homemade eight bay bowtie antenna with a channel master pre-amplifier. Most of my signals come across a large portion of Lake Ontario, so they have less obstructions to deal with. My bigest factor is my tower needs to be higher to get over the trees in my area, and a large hill that I have no hope of getting above. So, to sum it up, There are many factors that can affect receiving signals from distant stations. Getting above any trees or other obstructions in your neighbourhood. The terrain the signal has to travel over to get to you. The power of the signal you are trying to receive and the directional characteristics of the transmitting antenna. The height of the transmitting antenna. Use of a very high gain antenna and a very clean (low noise, high gain) pre-amplifier. Use of low loss cable to get the signal from the antenna to the TV. The sensitivity of the TV tunner and its ability to deal with issues like out of phase signals and noise. The atmospheric conditions. Any other stations in your area that might overload your amplifier. In general I would say that you will not receive signal from 150mi with 100% consistancy, and they will probably be sporatic at best. But this is just an opinion and each location is different from each other and will have different results. A good antenna shop in your area should be able to let you know what to expect for your location.

 

[Jim5506]

Since you have not given us your zip code we cannot give specific recommendations.

I am using zip code 65322 for example.

Does Columbia have any DT stations up. Youare only 25 or so miles from them.

If you want ultra-fringe reception, you must get the best antenna(s) possible and the Phillips is not one of them.

I would opt for a Winegard 8200P if you can find one. Rumors are Winegard has stopped making them because of problems shipping such a large antenna and is coming out with a 8200 model in three pieces that us UPS-able.

Input your exact address into TV Fool - Home. It will tell you how close you are to even deep fringe stations and give you some idea of what ideal reception would be.

My guess indicates you are over 500 ft below line of sight to KC, so you'll have to be very lucky to get consistent reception.

You may need to use seperate antennas for UHF and VHF for optimum performance joining them with a CM7777 pre-amp. In that case Look at the Antennas Direct 91-XG for UHF and a Winegard YA-1713 for VHF high stations.

 

[mastermesh]

Yes. Between Columbia, Jeff City and Sedalia we get all the major networks... ABC, CBS, NBC, MYTv, Fox, and PBS.

I was just posting more out of curiousity then anything else. I had never seen any antenna that claimed to be able to get signals that far away, and was just curious if some contraption like that would actually work.

Honestly, the main reason we started going with FTA in the first place was to get Fox because the local Fox on analog was nearly impossible to get since it was such a low frequency. Now that it's digital, and we can get digital, and the Fox channel's been set up as a subchannel of NBC's affiliate in Columbia, we actually aren't even watching FTA as much as we used to. We used to watch WMQF all the time. The wife loves That 70s Show, House, and several other Fox shows.

I guess OTA reception will never stack up to FTA with a motorized setup.

 

[gordonzo]

digital signal

i read somewhere that digital signals are only at half strength untill feb 2009.so if your reception is weak,it should be ok after that date.

 

[digiblur]

i read somewhere that digital signals are only at half strength untill feb 2009.so if your reception is weak,it should be ok after that date.

What you've read is mostly wrong. Some will shift from the temporary channel to original channel, but a lot of channels are at full power right now and won't move in power or frequency.

 

[roashru]

mastermesh, The hills are not that bad but from what i have seen last time in that area there are many trees south of the interstate your going to need height (high mounted antenna).

 

[PhatHD]

Channel Master made a pair of parabolic UHF antenna. This puppy was like 8 ft round, looked like a dish made out of elements. It was more for commercial use, however I had one on a tower with the Channel Master Amp/preamp, and rotor. It picked up St Louis Mo. very late at night from outside of Peoria Ill. I had a blast with it, but this was during pre-digital time I owned it.

 

[dodge]

Channel Master made a pair of parabolic UHF antenna. This puppy was like 8 ft round, looked like a dish made out of elements. It was more for commercial use, however I had one on a tower with the Channel Master Amp/preamp, and rotor. It picked up St Louis Mo. very late at night from outside of Peoria Ill. I had a blast with it, but this was during pre-digital time I owned it.

Too Bad Andrew does not make it anymore, that antenna was awesome!!!

 

[dlsnyder]

Radio Shack used to carry a big parabolic dish UHF antenna as well. Back in the 80's a friend of mine put one on on a rotor on top of his house in Oxnard CA (93030). He was able to pick up full power UHF stations in Bakersfield and Fresno, low power repeater stations north of Santa Barbara, and (seasonally) all of the UHF stations in the San Diego/Tijuana area, in addition to of all the LA stations. That thing was a monster! Atmospheric conditions had a lot to do with it though.

 

[NightHawk]

Once your beyond line-of-sight at 65 miles or so it's always going to be a crapshoot regarless of antenna gain. High-gain UHF parabolic antennas can do little if the station your looking for is over the horizon.

 

[riffjim4069]

I will echo what everyone else mentioned. I don't know much about St. Louis DTV issues, but it looks as though St. Louis DTV will be 100% UHF according to the DTV election process (please verify):

KTVI FOX 2 43 43
KMOV CBS 4 56 24
KSDK NBC 5 35 35
KETC PBS 9 39 39
KPLR CW 11 26 26
WPXS ind. 13 21 21
KNLC rlg 24 14 14
KDNL ABC 30 31 31
WRBU MyN 46 47 47

I have no problem with UHF digitals 55+ miles away using a CM-4228, but the Baltimore UHF digitals (90+ miles) only work during the evenings, six-months out of the year, when they get a good bounce off of the troposphere. It has been my experience that anything more than 50+ miles is a crap-shoot and is highly dependent on local broadcast and terrain issues. Of course, I know a few folks living in the Shenandoah mountains who reliably receive DC and Richmond DTV (120+ miles) with a plain-old VHF/UHF combo...just need 1600 feet or so of elevation.

Anyway, you'll need a top-notch UHF antenna and possibly a top-notch ultra-low noise preamp...and possibly a tower at 100+ miles out. I was prepared to purchase a Wade UHF Parabolic (link below) if my Channel Master didn't work. Likewise, I was prepared to purchase an ultra-low noise preamp if it would pull-in the Baltimore digitals 24/7. However, I borrowed a spectrum analyzer a few years back and discovered that I wasn't seeing any Batimore UHF and almost no measurable VHF (analog 2, 11) during the daylight hours. I concluded that I needed more height and that a better antenna/preamp would have little effect.

http://www.wade-antenna.com/Wade/uhfparabolic.pdf
http://www.satelliteguys.us/337640-post3.html
RF Amplifiers, LNAs Low Noise Amplifiers, Preamplifiers (Preamps) - Research Communications Ltd, UK

I just re-read the thread and realized you were wanting the KC locals...sorry, but I am still on my first cup of coffee! Anyway, it looks like the local ABC is VHF:

KMBC ABC 9 7 9
WDAF FOX 4 34 34
KCTV CBS 5 24 24
KMOS PBS 6 15 15
KCPT PBS 19 18 18
KCWE CW 29 31 31
KSHB NBC 41 42 42
KPXE ion 50 51 51
KSMO MyN 62 47 47

Lastly, you may be able to obtain some really good local OTA information at the:

AVSForum Official Kansas City Thread
AVSForum St. Louis OTA Thread