Steroids vs Pete Rose

[Ramy]

Oh , Another thing about Rose.

If Pete had admitted he had a gambling problem and got help for it right away I bet it would have been a whole different story when it comes to the Hall Of Fame. But part of the problem with people who gamble like he does is that they don't believe they have a gambling problem.

Then why wasn't Mickey Mantle or Willie Mays banned for life when they were caught gambling?

In 1983, Mantle worked at the Claridge Resort and Casino in Atlantic City, New Jersey, as a greeter and community representative. Most of his activities were representing the Claridge in golf tournaments and other charity events. But Mantle was suspended from baseball by Commissioner Bowie Kuhn on the grounds that any affiliation with gambling were grounds for being placed on the "permanently ineligible" list. Kuhn warned Mantle before he accepted the position that he would have to place him on the list if Mantle went to work there. Hall of Famer Willie Mays, who had also taken a similar position, had already had action taken against him. Mantle accepted the position, regardless, as he felt the rule was "stupid." He was placed on the list, but reinstated on March 18, 1985, by Kuhn's successor, Peter Ueberroth.

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[salsadancer7]

And the Commissioner of Baseball was interviewed about a few days before he died and said they had some really damaging information on Rose that was never made public. I'm guessing that he had been gambling for years .

Sorry but that does not hold water with me. IF one of THE MAIN REASONS he was suspended was the damage he did to baseball, then ALL OF THE INCRIMINATING information should have come out.....that is almost using the ole "I caught alot of fish but you should have SEEN the one that got away..."!

 

[Ira Lacher]

How many ballplayers over the years who supposedly were "clean" were actually taking greenies or other uppers?

 

[meStevo]

How many ballplayers over the years who supposedly were "clean" were actually taking greenies or other uppers?

We will never know, just like the ambiguity around the Pete Rose gambling, the same exists with PED use.

A man gambles and is banned for life. Many people flat out cheat, and just get an unpaid vacation for first couple offenses.

Cheating is worse than gambling, genuine offenses (not the 'my doctor blah blah stuff') should perhaps get the same treatment Pete Rose got, no? Baseball just doesn't have the balls.

 

[geonaz]

Well I asked for your opinions and I sure did get them. Thanks to all of you. Very well thought out. Many pros and cons. You are doing a great job of keeping a passionate subject very civil. Keep it up.

 

[televisionarchives]

- Charles Barkley

Gee, Charles. We didn't ask you to raise our kids. But how about acting like a respectable adult.

 

[televisionarchives]

Unlike Rose, Giamatti was a real pro about what he was doing. Remember, many of the things they found helped convict Rose for tax invasion. Rose called Giamatti a liar in a interview during the 1990's . This was way before he wrote the book and made money and starting telling the truth about it .Speaks volumes about Pete Rose and his character.


Now the man you should really talk to is John Dowd. Dowd saw many things about Rose that never became public.

When Commissioner Bart Giamatti banned Rose, the commissioner received calls from ballplayers all over the country thanking him for protecting the rule because they obey it. This from Giamatti in the interview. Giamatti had the backing of MLB because just like him , the saw the evidence. They knew they had a strong case and in fact they needed a strong case . Rose could have used legal action to stop them . But he knew better.

 

[stmcld]

SO in other words....IF you were busted for smoking pot when you were a kid, say around 16 years old, and applied for a government job in your 40s....too bad, so sad...no job for you??!! EVEN IF YOU WERE CLEAN since?

That can be true if you need a specific type of security clearance. However, that stuff doesn't keep you from running or being elected president.

 

[SamCdbs]

In the same era as Rose was suspended for life, on the promise that he could apply for reinstatement in a year, George Steinbrenner was also suspended "for life". For, by his own admission, dealing with a mob figure to find out dirt on Dave Winfield in order to get out of his contract, or, if you believe the mobster, to kill him.

Steinbrenner was reinstated. Nobody mentions the story. When Steinbrenner ART, which seem to be coming soon, nobody will mention it.

The difference?

Now, let us turn to steroids. First read "Game of Shadows" and get an understanding of the complex regimine of drugs, including cancer drugs, AIDS drugs and female reproductive drugs that were taken according to detailed schedules, and the side effects thereof. Claims by Bonds, Rodriquez or Ramiriz that they had some kind of "plausable deniablilty" and just took a simple pill or something without asking are simply lies that no thinking person can believe.

Remember that, at least in Bonds' case, many of these drugs were obtained by paying AIDS and cancer patients cash for welfare paid drugs at a rate of a few cents to the dollar.

Now understand that is seems likely that Selig either knew or should have known all of this was going on. And did nothing. And, IMHO, if it can be shown that Selig and other owners actually knew this, and kept it from the public and media during their various campains to get voters or governements to approve stadium deals, then they belong in jail for financial fraud.

The cheaters involved. Certainly they should be banned for life.

Rose? Raised in the gambling culture that was lower and lower middle class Cincinnati of the 1940s and 50s, bet on a few baseball games, and, like most players in that era, took cash from the card show people to screw the IRS. Big deal. Show me the evidence that Rose, as a player or a manager, ever threw a game.

 

[Paul Wozniak]

In the same era as Rose was suspended for life, on the promise that he could apply for reinstatement in a year, George Steinbrenner was also suspended "for life". For, by his own admission, dealing with a mob figure to find out dirt on Dave Winfield in order to get out of his contract, or, if you believe the mobster, to kill him.

Steinbrenner was reinstated. Nobody mentions the story. When Steinbrenner ART, which seem to be coming soon, nobody will mention it.

The difference?

Now, let us turn to steroids. First read "Game of Shadows" and get an understanding of the complex regimine of drugs, including cancer drugs, AIDS drugs and female reproductive drugs that were taken according to detailed schedules, and the side effects thereof. Claims by Bonds, Rodriquez or Ramiriz that they had some kind of "plausable deniablilty" and just took a simple pill or something without asking are simply lies that no thinking person can believe.

Remember that, at least in Bonds' case, many of these drugs were obtained by paying AIDS and cancer patients cash for welfare paid drugs at a rate of a few cents to the dollar.

Now understand that is seems likely that Selig either knew or should have known all of this was going on. And did nothing. And, IMHO, if it can be shown that Selig and other owners actually knew this, and kept it from the public and media during their various campains to get voters or governements to approve stadium deals, then they belong in jail for financial fraud.

The cheaters involved. Certainly they should be banned for life.

Rose? Raised in the gambling culture that was lower and lower middle class Cincinnati of the 1940s and 50s, bet on a few baseball games, and, like most players in that era, took cash from the card show people to screw the IRS. Big deal. Show me the evidence that Rose, as a player or a manager, ever threw a game.

Show me the proof he didn't. Rose is the only one that knows. Any gambling associated with players or other representatives of MLB draws the integrity of the game into question. I don't care which way Rose bet, if you don't draw the line, then you're saying that gambling on MLB is OK. There has to be consequences, in order to keep this from happening. Rose knew his candidacy was on the line, and he gambled anyhow. His loss.

 

[Jimbo]

Show me the proof he didn't. Rose is the only one that knows. Any gambling associated with players or other representatives of MLB draws the integrity of the game into question. I don't care which way Rose bet, if you don't draw the line, then you're saying that gambling on MLB is OK. There has to be consequences, in order to keep this from happening. Rose knew his candidacy was on the line, and he gambled anyhow. His loss.

And it's OK to go out on the mound and throw a ball 90-100 MPH while on drugs and come back from a suspension 7 times while still being allowed to be in baseball and play daily ... Mr Steve (yankee pitcher a while back) for some reason I can never remember his last name, I want to say Howe).

On another note, I did not remember that he passed away a few years back largely due to his addiction.

 

[gcs_78]

Baseball is very selective about enforcing their own rules. When a new commisioner takes over all rules are enforced differently.

Selig should have been kicked out years ago. I think they need to stop protecting all the steroid users and give them the boot. The users and the protectors are ruining a great game.

 

[Paul Wozniak]

I agree with both of the previous statements. A lot of the current problems go right back to the commissioner's office. That's what happens when you give the job to spineless former owner.

 

[salsadancer7]

I agree with both of the previous statements. A lot of the current problems go right back to the commissioner's office. That's what happens when you give the job to spineless former owner.

THAT my friend, is why baseball is in the mess they are in!! THAT is the quote of the thread!!!:up

 

[SabresRule]

A lot of the current problems go right back to the commissioner's office. That's what happens when you give the job to spineless former owner.

He is the worst commisioner in the four major sports.

Every other comissioner has a lot of positives:

David Stern- IMO, the best. He has done a magnificent job of making the NBA a global sport.

Roger Goodell- He's doing a fine job filling Tagliabue's shoes.

Gary Bettman- He has some flaws, but at least hockey doesn't have drug problems. Also, he fixed the salary cap problem.

 

[anders5189]

Gary Bettman- He has some flaws, but at least hockey doesn't have drug problems. Also, he fixed the salary cap problem.

No instead they have a nobody gives a sh*t problem. And he fixed the salary problem by nuking an entire season. Well done. Now he's got a new problem to contend with in Phoenix.

 

[SamCdbs]

If I had to rank the commissioners, GB would be first. In any strike, its everybody else vs. the players. As our represenative, he won. That is his first job and he did it well. And whatever the NHL is in this era south of I-70, its lightyears ahead of the non-existance it was prior to the masterful expansion. The NHL is more of a nationwide game in the USA today than at anypoint in its history.

RG? Well, he is doing a good job, but that is like being the manager of the only gas station on a busy road in the middle of nowhere. How do you do a bad job with a liscense to print money? Bent over to the politicians when he moved a game off NFLN because of "those who cannot (READ: WILL NOT BUY A DISH) get it". Labor troubles coming, maybe. Several cities with stadium issues remaining. Not dealt with the thugs and wackos.

DS? The NBA is far less popular than the attention it gets from ESPN, but let us remember that it is the league with the "nobody gives a s***" problem. It, not the NHL, has been run, on DS's watch, out of Charlotte, Vancouver and Seattle. It today seem to be a league that plays in the biggest cities, and a random collection of mid-major cites with no other pro sports and a desire to be "major league". However, the sport, unlike its superior college equilivant, remains ignored outside the cites it plays in.

But Bud (Light) "Kennesaw Molehill" Selig. Simply put, a failure.

- As our represenative, lost a strike.

- Unplanned and pointless expansion into the spring training states, where locals seem to be uninterested.

- Crazy deal with the O's outlaw owner that will handicap Washington for a generation for which there was no legal presadent.

- Failure to deal with steroids.

- Failure to deal with steroids.

- Failure to deal with steroids.

- MLBN last to launch, not only behind the other 3, but behind SPEED (NASCAR), Tennis, and Golf. And he forgot about Canada.

- What can only be described as a weird fixation on a bygone era of US history which happened long before any of us were born.

- Pete Rose. Rose - bad. Steinbrenner, Angelos, Turner, Jacobs, druggies, steroid cheats and whatever - good.

- Weird 16 and 14 league set up.

- Conference (so called "interleague" play) which, as predicted, has settled down into just another game.

- The two conferences still play by different rules.

- Failure to deal with the weirdos, most of whom seem to turn out to be weird as a side effect of steroids.

- The World Baseball Classic.

- Moving the WS from the begining of October, where the weather is often still OK even in the most northern states, to November, when winter is setting in.

- All-Star game tie.

- Changing the rain out rule in the middle of a WS game.

- And, in the department of future failures, let me say that Selig will totally botch baseball's role in this country abandoning 60 years of bipartisan policy towards Cuba. Watch and see.

 

[SabresRule]

DS? The NBA is far less popular than the attention it gets from ESPN, but let us remember that it is the league with the "nobody gives a s***" problem. It, not the NHL, has been run, on DS's watch, out of Charlotte, Vancouver and Seattle. It today seem to be a league that plays in the biggest cities, and a random collection of mid-major cites with no other pro sports and a desire to be "major league". However, the sport, unlike its superior college equilivant, remains ignored outside the cites it plays in.

I think the NBA is extremely popular, and I wish you'd see that.

It has more marketable star athletes than baseball, IMO.

People would rather watch LeBron James dunk a basketball than watch players hit homers. Look at the TV Ratings- the World Series ratings are not what they used to be.

 

[Jimbo]

I think the NBA is extremely popular, and I wish you'd see that.

It has more marketable star athletes than baseball, IMO.

People would rather watch LeBron James dunk a basketball than watch players hit homers. Look at the TV Ratings- the World Series ratings are not what they used to be.

I disagree.

I have not turned on a NBA game intentionally for 20 years now.

I watch plenty of baseball , including the MLB All Star game.

 

[Phil T]

I know I am biased, growing up in Cincinnati during the Pete Rose years.

What Pete did did not effect his performance on the field. He needs to be in the hall. I hope he makes it soon!