Standard vs Universal vs Circular...

[geekt]

I'm sorry for bothering people with what is likely a common question. It really should be in the FAQ's.

Are there ANY channels visible from the US that would warrant buying a Universal or Circular LNB? I tried looking through LyngSat and saw nothing. If there were a preview channel that shows News or something like that on one of the Dish satellites, that might warrant buying an LNB capable of receiving L/R Circular Ku band, but I didn't see anything after trying to look through all the Pacific and American satellites that required a Universal. So why are there soo many being sold in the US?

 

[Mikey11]

i am assuming you are talking about ku-band....99% of ku-band FTA channels in north america are received using a standard linear LNB....i dont think there are any left that can be received with a circular LNB....so no need to buy a universal or circular LNB if you are in north america....

 

[geekt]

I didn't think so either. I tried looking just in case. I figured asking was the easiest way to be sure.
The FAQ says pretty much nothing can be received with a small dish and a circular LNB, doesn't mean that a normal KU sized dish couldn't find something.

I think I remember DTV having one of the 100 stations as a sort of news preview. I think you could get that without a subscription, but pretty sure you couldn't get that on FTA. If there was a station like that one of the sats though, it might warrant a cheap LNB offset to the side.

 

[Davage]

A year or two ago, CubaVision used to be on 58 West (I think) using a frequency that was below the "standard" Ku LNB frequencies. That's why I bought a Universal LNB for my Ku Dish - I wanted the ability to get ALL of the Ku frequencies.

I haven't done a blind scan on the "Dish" satellites in a while. Last time I looked, there was nothing really worth watching in FTA mode. Same thing with the Bell Nimiq satellites - nothing in the clear that made it worthwhile to point a dish at them.

Back in the 'good old days' the audio channels on Dish and Bell used to be in the clear. It was fun to tune in the audio channels on those satellites, but those days are gone. Now I use my 7.5ft Sami dish to tune in audio on various different birds.

 

[B.J.]

My opinion is that it is definately worth it to get a combination linear/circular like the QPH-031. Despite what Lyngsat says, and what most people believe, there are FTA channels that you can view on the DBS sats. Most go clear for only a day or two, some for longer periods, and these channels are not easy to find, and you're generally not going to see posts telling about when these channels are viewable, so you have to learn how to find them. Sometimes there are just one or two, and they're not too interesting, other times there are lots of interesting channels. If you're expecting a cable type channel to always be there and FTA, no, that's not going to happen, but if you are the type that has more fun finding channels than viewing programming, there are things to find with a circular LNBF.

 

[geekt]

Thanks B.J.
That's exactly what I was wondering. If I can get a good enough quality combo LNB, I'll definitely invest in one. That also helps if there are ever any FTA on circular in the future. Personally if I were going to launch an FTA service, I'd consider going circular to take advantage of all the dishes out there.

On a side note, anyone know if there is ANYTHING on Ka band out there?

 

[B.J.]

Thanks B.J.
....
On a side note, anyone know if there is ANYTHING on Ka band out there?

I'd be interested in the answer to that too. I almost picked up a Hughesnet Ka band rig this summer, but I wasn't sure if it covered the same freqs as the Ka band video that's up there.
Some people up the street here had a complete Hughesnet dish/lnbs on a pipe with concrete ball pulled out of the ground, and they were moving, and had a yard sale. The dish wasn't for sale, but I stopped and asked if they were trying to get rid of the Hughesnet thing, thinking I might be able to use the Ka band LNBF, but the person I talked to apparently thought because I was interested that it must be worth something, so they asked $25 for the thing. I KNEW they were just going to throw the thing away, so that made me mad, so I didn't pay them the $25, and 3 weeks later, I saw the thing in the dump, however the dump has rules against grabbing stuff from the dump now (unless it gets down to the big transfer station, where I have a standing order with the guy who runs it, that if any medium sized dishes show up that they're to pull them out and call me).
Anyway, I'm also curious whether a Hughesnet or Wild blue LNBF would work on the Ka bands that have video on them???? Just in case another one comes along..... actually, there's a possibility that my Wild Blue dish might become available if they don't want it back. Even if there isn't anything FTA, it's still interesting to lock transponders.

 

[geekt]

I thought the Hughesnet were Ka band.
However, I know the Wild Blue LNB's are limited (I believe in the lower range) because while researching if there were any feeds up there on the Ku band, I could barely find anything, but one of the few things I did find sounded pretty darknet, talking about modding a Wild Blue to pick up something military.
IF the Ka band is where they're broadcasting the latest sat uplinks for news from Iraq and overseas, AND it's in the clear, I might be willing to pick one up just to see if I see anything up ever. I've heard them talk about new tech with newscasts being used in Iraq by MSNBC. If that's what they're using, might be worth it, even if some modding is involved, as long as it's in the clear. You can get used Wild Blue LNB's for like $20 anyway.
The only problem is if I was going to get an LNB that covers another band, it'd likely have to be offset, which would be annoying. I think I wanna get an S band LNB eventually as well, if I can ever find one. I KNOW there are things up there on that band.

 

[Vorg]

I would go universal over standard, but not worry about circular for now. You are more likely to need a universal then a circular since circular seems to be the realm of the propriatary/pay.

 

[geekt]

Why universal? Anything out there on them? Such as feeds?

 

[Tron]

The reason there are so many universal LNBFs out there is that they are necessary in Europe, and most manufacturing for FTA is done with that market in mind. There really isn't a good reason for them here, although they should work as well as a standard. One disadvantage with universal is that it limits your 22k switching usage.

 

[geekt]

Yeah, that's what I thought, but Vorg suggested using universal versus standard, and I'm wondering why... I didn't even see any sats that I could get over the Pacific that have anything requiring a universal. Though perhaps there are feeds out there occasionally that are on universal.
If I were going to do a feed that I wanted to limit the reception on, in the US, I'd put it on universal or circular if I could, if I wasn't going to have it encrypted. Seems a lot of the things up there just rely on the fact that not many are actually listening.

 

[B.J.]

I would go universal over standard, but not worry about circular for now. You are more likely to need a universal then a circular since circular seems to be the realm of the propriatary/pay.

One reason that standard is preferable to universal is that a universal LNBF won't work with a GI/Motorola DCII receiver.

I was debating the same thing, before I got my first QPH-031, ie the 031 is standard on the linear side, so if I went with that, I'd be losing the opportunity to tune transponders below 11700, but if I went with a universal, I'd be losing the opportunity to use the LNBF with my DCII receivers. I decided to go with the QPH-031, and I am happy that I did, and eventually got a 2nd one. I later found that with my Genpix receiver, I can tune about 200 MHz below 11700 anyway. And there was never anything that I really thought I was missing that I could have got with the universal, whereas there have been hundreds of transponders that I've tuned with the circular side of my QPH-031.


Prior to getting my Ku dishes that I use the 031 on, I used to strap an old DTV lnbf onto the side of my C-band feedhorn with cable ties. This worked "OK" but not great, the problem being that it wasn't at the focal point, plus the fact that it was only looking at a fraction of the dish anyway, but the DBS transponders are so strong that it made up for the lack of efficiency.

 

[geekt]

That looks like a great LNB.

 

[Vorg]

When I look at the lyngsat tp list, I often see TP's that are just below the listed range of "standard". That doesn't mean standard won't get them.

 

[B.J.]

When I look at the lyngsat tp list, I often see TP's that are just below the listed range of "standard". That doesn't mean standard won't get them.

THe standard LNB/LNBF is capable of getting them. The problem is that most receivers won't tune them. Of the dozens of receivers I have, only one will tune below 950 MHz (the low end of the IF band), and that is the Genpix. Even though the LNBs list a freq range, they ALL will send freqs beyond that range to your receiver, but the receivers won't let you see them. My Genpix will tune fairly well a good 200 MHz below 950. For example with a circular DBS LNB, I can tune all the way down to about 12000 . For example I can tune the 12002L transponder on Anik F3 (unfortunately everything is encrypted). I've never tried on a linear sat, but this means I could probably tune down to 11500 on linear sats. So with the proper receiver, it's possible to get at least part of that lower band with a standard LNB.