Split Second Signal Dropouts Every 10 Minutes - Help

[Ron AKA]

I'm having a really annoying problem with a Bell 9241 DVR, which I understand is identical to the VIP-612 DVR. About every 10 minutes or so the signal drops out for a split second. The screen flashes, and the audio is cut off for a split second as well. Initially it only seemed to only happen on one HD channel, while other channels seemed fine.

I'm think it is the receiver, the separator, the LNB, or the interconnecting cable. I use an audio amplifier and it displays the audio type every time the signal is interrupted. The audio is a digital cable that goes directly from the receiver to the audio amp and does not go through the TV. Also if I record this channel on the DVR the dropout is recorded even though the TV is off.

Action to date:

The satellite provider blamed the cable connection method. I had the RG6 cable running through a power bar isolator. He bypassed the power bar. He also blamed an extension cable that I was using which was not RG6. That cable was eliminated. Neither change solved the problem. He then changed the LNB, and also the "F" connectors on the dish end of the cable. No improvement. He now blames the rest of the cable which is RG6, 3 GHz, and wants to change it and charge me for it. There is a splitter right at the receiver to get the #1 and #2 inputs to the 612. It is a Dish Network DP Plus Separator 123254. To date they are not willing to replace the receiver unless I replace the cable. I asked them to hold off for now.

When you check the signal strength on the HD channel that acts the worst, it is 100% and drops occasionally to 98%. Since the service call if anything it has gotten worse. I have noticed the drop outs on some other HD channels, but not as frequently as the initial bad one. The lowest signal strength on other channels that I have seen is 95%.

Has anyone seen anything like this? And, what was the cause? Does the cable being the problem make any sense? It is about 8 years old. Could it be the DP Plus Separator? Or, could it be the LNB setup at the dish? Should it be feeding two separate RG6 cables right from the dish. This receiver was a "free" upgrade from an older single signal receiver that only used one cable. That said, the upgrade was several months ago, and this problem became noticeable only about 2 weeks ago.

There are no trees or other obstructions, and the issue seems to be independent of weather conditons.

Any thoughts on this are welcome...

 

[boba]

You might be better posting in the canadian forum. I don't thnk the Bell software is the same as DISH even if it is a similar model#.

 

[sca]

if this model is identical to the 612, that is probably your problem right there
the 612 has a really annoying habit of fluctuating the signal +/-5 points or so. this causes lots of problems in areas with weak spotbeams. other receivers may work fine, while this one may lose signal intermittantly because of this fluctuation.
anyway, your tech was rright...dont pass through a powerbar, dont use an rg-59 jumper or any white low frequency wallplates or barrels. what you have seems to indicate a signal issue. every channel you watch is coming off a different transponder on whichever sat the channel is assigned to. some transponders are definately weaker than others. if you press menu 6-1-1 FROM the channel you are watching it will take you to the transponder that this channel is coming off of. the signal number you see is not a percentage by the way, at least not on the US system.
anyway problems on one channel may indicate a low spotbeam for that channel, meaning the dish should be tweaked. you will probably find that the sd version of that channel is stable and won't go out.

 

[Ron AKA]

if this model is identical to the 612, that is probably your problem right there
the 612 has a really annoying habit of fluctuating the signal +/-5 points or so. this causes lots of problems in areas with weak spotbeams. other receivers may work fine, while this one may lose signal intermittantly because of this fluctuation. if you press menu 6-1-1 FROM the channel you are watching it will take you to the transponder that this channel is coming off of. the signal number you see is not a percentage by the way, at least not on the US system.
anyway problems on one channel may indicate a low spotbeam for that channel, meaning the dish should be tweaked. you will probably find that the sd version of that channel is stable and won't go out.

Yes, I'm thinking the problem may be in the 612. However, the problem did not start when it was first put in. Not sure if colder temperatures would affect anything, but that is about all that is different recently. The menus are not identical between the 612 and this 9241, but I suspect the hardware is the same. My Harmony remote would not recognize the 9241 so I had to tell it that I have a VIP-612, and the Harmony now works just fine.

Yes, I have been checking Menu-6-1-1 to get signal strength. Not sure what the signal strength is measured in. The screen shows a green bar that goes across the screen from 0 to 100. I just assumed it was in a % due to the 0-100 scale. There is no markings on the screen as to what it is, just the bar, and a number.

I have bought some Monster Cable MV-Quad Shielded RG6 with copper braid and aluminum foil, and a solid copper core. Will install it, but I'm not optimistic it will make a difference. I have never liked how they installed this particular cable for cosmetic reasons, but I can't see anything technically wrong with it. It is less than 25' from the dish to the receiver, so it should not be hard service for a cable.

 

[Tampa8]

if this model is identical to the 612, that is probably your problem right there
the 612 has a really annoying habit of fluctuating the signal +/-5 points or so. this causes lots of problems in areas with weak spotbeams. other receivers may work fine, while this one may lose signal intermittantly because of this fluctuation.

Do you have a link about that?

 

[Ron AKA]

Replaced cable from dish with the Monster quad shield copper core new cable. Perhaps a very marginal improvement in signal strength. Now indication on the most problematic channel is almost always 100, with the occasional infrequent drop to 99. On the older cable it would drop to 98 and perhaps a little more often to 98.

However the dropout for a split second is about the same, frequency about every 8-10 minutes and occasionally 2 minutes apart. Will call the satellite service provider again to see what they say... My conclusion is that the cable was not the problem.

 

[Ron AKA]

Another tech came out to inspect the setup. He found nothing basically wrong, and tightened a few things on the dish. Said the previous tech had not done the LNB install totally correct. Nothing changed and dropouts continue every 10 minutes or so. Bell finally agreed to replace the receiver. They are sending it to me. Any bets on whether or not the new receiver is going to fix the problem???

 

[tkwasny]

Same symptoms as with my VIP211 summer 2012. After triple-checking everything, it was the rcvr. Swapped it out and no problems ever since. The ~$7/month fee is worth it having had to swap out at least 1 rcvr every year or 2.

 

[Ron AKA]

A replacement receiver arrived today. It turned out to be a refurbished unit with a lower serial number than the one I had installed nearly a year ago. Installed it, and set it up. Essentially the same dropout problem is still there. Called Bell and discussed the issue for the third time. The only part that has not been replaced is the separator. A tech is coming out tomorrow to replace the separator, but it would seem to be the simplest device in the circuit and not likely to be a problem.

Any suggestions as to what I should ask Bell for next? I understand there is potentially a different switch that feeds two separate cables rather than a separator at the receiver. DP44?? Would that potentially help?

I have been thinking back as to when this problem started. Not sure it was exactly at the same time, but it was around the same time as I upgraded the TV itself. I went from a HD CRT type Toshiba using Component Video inputs to a LG using HDMI. These are used for video only, as I go direct from the receiver to my audio amplifier with a digital audio cable. Is there any chance this could be caused by the way I connect to the TV and audio amp? I have dismissed this possibility because I can record the most problematic HD station on the DVR when the whole system is shut off except for the receiver. Then when I play it back the dropouts are there. This is telling me the problem is in the receiver or further back, and not in the audio amp or TV.

Any thoughts appreciated as I seem to be going nowhere...

 

[dare2be]

You could still rule out the amp/TV by connecting component to the TV and removing all cabling to the amp.

 

[Ron AKA]

DP Plus Separator was replaced today. No change to the dropouts. Watched 30 minutes of news this evening on channel 1564, a high definition channel that has been problematic. There was a dropout at the following times:

9:01
9:02
9:03
9:17
9:25
9:27

Is this normal? Bell is now wanting to blame it on the broadcaster. My point is that I pay $90 a month for service, and Bell pays the broadcaster, so they need to address it, not me.

 

[navychop]

Yep, I agree

 

[Jim5506]

Have you spoken to your neighbors? Do any of them seem to be having the same problem?

I am thinking along the lines of interference from an outside source of some kind.

Are you near an airport or a radar installation?

Just throwing things up against the wall to see if anything sticks.

 

[Ron AKA]

Have you spoken to your neighbors? Do any of them seem to be having the same problem?
I am thinking along the lines of interference from an outside source of some kind.
Are you near an airport or a radar installation?
Just throwing things up against the wall to see if anything sticks.

Our closest neighbour uses a fiber optic system from the legacy phone company. We are about 15 miles from an airport, but basically have a clear sky in front of the dish. Bad weather is the only issue that has caused a problem in the past. However weather causes signal loss for minutes and more, not just random split second losses.

My latest test has been to hook up the second cable off the dish that has been unused for a year or so. I used a 6131 Bell receiver which was also collecting dust. Not sure of an equivalent Dish model, but it is a single tuner, single cable input, that is designated as a Dish Pro (not a Plus) -13/+18 volt, and is also made by Echostar Technologies.

In any case it also experiences split second dropouts. Every time the 6131 drops out, the 612 also drops. However, I'm not 100% certain the reverse is true. In a 20 minute period I noted 5 drops of the 612, and only 3 drops of the 6131. It is easier to detect a drop on the 612, so that is why I am not 100%.

But this seems to eliminate a lot of hardware. The only common remaining hardware is the DISH Pro Plus Twin LNBF, and it has been replaced in the last week, with no change to the problem.

 

[dare2be]

Did you rule out the TV/amp by using component and taking the AVR out of the equation?

 

[Ron AKA]

Did you rule out the TV/amp by using component and taking the AVR out of the equation?

Yes, I would say so. I am essentially having the same problem on the older 6131 receiver and second TV. The TV is also HD but a different brand, and connects to the receiver with component video cables, and a simple L/R RCA cable. There is no separate sound system, just the TV itself. It is also on a single RG6 connection with no DP Plus Separator. Really all they have in common for hardware is the DishPro Plus Twin LNBF, which was just changed last week, with no improvement in dropouts.

CNN HD went through a bad spell today. The weather was great, with only a very thin hint of high cloud. It was dropping out about every minute for a 10 minute stretch. I went to Menu 6-1-1 to check signal strength. It was 98-100, and then dropped to zero - not locked for brief periods. It strikes me that there is a total loss of signal for very brief (perhaps less than a second at times) periods. Or this "locked" condition is lost for some reason.