Special Nov 25th Retailer Charlie Chat Details

[Stargazer]

The only way I could make sense of all HD going to 110 now is for it to go to 105/121 later. The thing is if it would go to 105/121 later then there would be an issue. Lets say they put HD on 105 but they have your locals on 121. What are you going to do? Get two SuperDishes? I've heard that you cannot put 105 and 121 on the same SuperDish by simply adding an lnbf (unless you have a dish that is noticably bigger which is not going to happen). This is why I think they would not add it to 105/121 later unless somehow they came up with a solution to get the dish smaller for a 105/110/119/121 solution if that would even be possible. Either that or they would have to find all that room for 50+HD channels.

How is that going to happen? Got me along with many others puzzled. The only thing Charlie could say is that he didnt know what was going to happen in the future. Just seems like to me that only a limited amount of HD may be offered or some people will be stuck with two SuperDishes or just locals or HD having to make a decision.

 

[Guest]

Ok, I have (currently) [a legacy 3 sat setup] what additional equipment will I need to purchase to get HD when this all happens?

You've said you'll keep it at 4 receiver lines, so... (unless there's been some change to the 921 which I haven't heard about) no new gear!

Dish has been keeping the new receivers backwards compatible to the legacy LNBFs & switches. It's the other way around (DishPro LNBFs & switches but legacy receivers) which requires adapters... And the biggest pain in the a** is that no mixed environments are supported (e.g. legacy Dish 500 with DishPro wing dish)!

Peter

 

[Guest]

Hmmm, sounds like it's time for Plan 9 (for TV reception) from Outer Space: Replace my TwinLNB at 110/119 and the Dual LNB at 61.5 with DishPro LNBs, run the three lines through ground blocks into my attic, place a DP34 switch there to provide two lines to the 921 in the family room and one to my 6000 (w/adapter, natch).

Like Don said, it's time to run that second line to the future 921 site!

 

[mike123abc]

Dish has on order another spot beam satellite for 110, they will probably move all the CONUS 110 LIL to the new spot beam satellite.

Dish could also be working on additional capacity for HDTV in the future. They have some KA slots, plus they could be going for VOOM or other plans... 110 probably has enough capacity to hold them over for a while until their true HDTV plans are announced.

 

[mikew]

The instant space saver for adding SHO-HD & HBO-HD...moving Chicago and Atlanta to the spotbeams. Their schedules are similar to New York. According to Lyngsat, Dallas is still CONUS as well.

 

[James Long]

Yesterday's Channel Counts for 105/121 Based on LyngSat ...

105 - 141 LIL and 7 HD (including demo)
Plus Channel "7000" and the EPG
15 LIL transponders, 4 HD transponders

121 - 50 Internationals plus 4 International Radio
Plus Channel "900" and the EPG
7 transponders in use

Quick shift of all 105 LIL to 121 would be 22 transponders (out of 32) ...
10 transponders remain for more LIL (~20 more markets) or 100 internationals (on 9 total transponders) and ~46 total LIL markets

Not bad, and certainly better than 105 was doing.

JL

 

[jeffwtux]

Well this pleases me as a customer and a retailer of Dish, but if I were a shareholder(I'm not), this would make me very agree. They may have wasted tens of millions of dollars sealaunching a satellite(landlaunching one too) and aquiring space on others only to find out that they aren't going to use them right now. I know this isn't a stock market chat, but this chat must make th shareholders mad.
One thing you people need to keep in perspective is that the HD market while extremely vocal(especially here) is still minute. Dish has far more customers for their international packages than they do for HD(probably more Indian alone). I have 1 HD customer right now, and over 30 Indian customers.

 

[James Long]

Well this pleases me as a customer and a retailer of Dish, but if I were a shareholder(I'm not), this would make me very agree. They may have wasted tens of millions of dollars sealaunching a satellite(landlaunching one too) and aquiring space on others only to find out that they aren't going to use them right now.

Actually it is their most recently launched bird that is getting the workout here as the LILs planned for 105 move to 121 (along with the Internationals already there). 105 is leased space ...

One thing you people need to keep in perspective is that the HD market while extremely vocal(especially here) is still minute. Dish has far more customers for their international packages than they do for HD(probably more Indian alone). I have 1 HD customer right now, and over 30 Indian customers.

Who said that Internationals were leaving 121? Or are you reading something between the lines?

JL

 

[Stargazer]

When they do launch that spotbeam satellite to 110 that will help free up a lot of that space at that location and perhaps that is the secret ingredient needed for getting those extra HD channels now and some additions in the future. Just by having all locals in the future to go to a different slot than 110 will help because as they gain additional space with compression and moving channels around, that will give them more room for HD.

There is more money in locals than there is with HD at this time because there are still not enough people with HD televisions to offer HD to that would be interested, and even if there was, there is not enough content. Once Dish gets all of these additional subscribers and starts making more money as a company they could put that money into use for HD at that time as it becomes more mainstream. Sometimes its about what the majority of the people want now, not what the majority of the people want in the future, because right now, the majority still have analog televisions and want their locals. Its not that they dont want HD, its just that the price is not right for them right now so its not an option.

 

[mattb]

looks like E*is priority is now Locals.. HD.... SD Shopping Channels, then maybe if we are lucky SD channels people request...

I still think they should not neglect the regular channels.

 

[fslove]

As a Dish retailer I too watched the chat today and it was glaringly obvious to me by the way Charlie was acting (and talking) that HD is a dead issue on Superdish from this day forward. It seems that they will put HD on 110 until they run out of bandwidth then the rest will go to the wings satellites as a upgraded HD package. Charlie was quite clear to us dealers that the Wing dishes should be installed for HD customers to cover the customer for the more distant future HD packages. Most likely the HD demo and CBS-HD will remain on the wings only.

Also for those who have ordered 811 or 921 systems (not receivers only) you will NOT be getting Superdishes but instead you will get 2 Dish500's, one DP Twin LNBF, One DP Dual LNBF, and two DP2-1 switches. The only exceptions are for those who require Superdished for their locals.

 

[TheForce]

"HD is a dead issue on Superdish from this day forward."

Again, a narrow thinker in a broad world. Big mistake to think that in the coming years, E* will refuse to utilize all it's assets in the NEVER ENDING channel / TP juggling game.
If by end of 2005, 95% of all suds are converted to SD and the new power on 105 proves to be adequate for 4 lnb(f) pickups we could see a swapping of tp's for all mainstream channels SD and HD alike without much impact on the customer.
Point is no one should be making a statement that as of Nov 25th no more changes will happen or HD will "never" be on superdish. That is rediculous!
Delaying HD only on 105 now is a very good thing as it will allow the eventual transition to SD to occur over a much better time table. Also, at this time the impact of higher power 105 is not known other than it will improve footprint, add spotbeams and reduce SD alignment sensitivity.

I still see the Superdish in all sub's future but for most, it won't be until 2005.

 

[EdV]

What I don't understand is E*'s decision to drop their plans for putting HD on the 105 bird. They had already assigned transponders 16 and 17 for HBO, Showtime, Specials and PPV.

Maybe they found out that not only was the footprint for 105 smaller than they thought for SD, it was even smaller for HD or that they just couldn't get HD to work reliably for the majority of the CONUS.

If that was the case, why not put those channels on 121 with a Q1/04 activation time frame. This would not create a high demand for SuperDish because the majority of their existing customers probably get those channels already with a second dish.

But as it stands now, unless E* figures out how to somehow squeeze three of those bandwidth hogging HD channels onto 110, thousands of potential customers with new HD receivers purchased over the holidays will be offered 7 HD channels on a single dish from D* verses E*'s two dish solution with an uncertain future. And a stagnated market share is not good for existing E* HD subs.

 

[CygnusTM]

Sounds like no 322 or 522's for sale to consumers for awhile DHP only.

Any word on when current DHP customers will be able to get it? It's just new DHP subs right now. Correct?

 

[jeffwtux]

AHHH, so the 105 was "leased" space not a purchased satellite. I knew that this wasn't the most recently sealaunched satellite(that was 121 right?), but I thought that they bought the bird permanently. I don't get why they can't just put the HD stations on 121 for a while until they have too many LIL. That solution seems like it will last longer and than putting them on 110 which is pretty full. Maybe by the time they launch a new 105 satellite they could manufacture a cheap LNBF and Y bracket replacement to make the 105 SuperDish a 121 that most customers could install.

 

[dlsnyder]

Did E* and SES Americom have a falling-out? Has anyone heard what is going on with the planned Americom-2-home service? There could be some kind of a relationship here.

 

[dlsnyder]

That might come in handy when you try to get WBBM-DT (channel 3) since that one station has caused more grief then I care to mention with folks trying to get them due to their channel 3 assignment by the FCC.

Rad,

Can you get it with a 6000? I'm up here on the north side of Waukegan & I do get it most of the time, sometimes with a stronger signal than I get with my Toshiba 151 OTA.

I just had an outside antenna installed (the attic mount wasn't cutting it) and I still have wild signal reading fluctuations. I'm waiting for the weather to get better and have the installer come back out and try to do a bit of reaiming to see if that will help.

You may have too much signal coming in or some sort of multipath problem. If you have a signal amplifier have you tried just going straight to the antenna? You could also try using an attenuator on the input of your amp, or on the RF input of your 6000 if you are going direct. How is your reception of the analog channels coming from the same tower?

 

[fslove]

Again, a narrow thinker in a broad world. Big mistake to think that in the coming years, E* will refuse to utilize all it's assets in the NEVER ENDING channel / TP juggling game.
If by end of 2005, 95% of all suds are converted to SD and the new power on 105 proves to be adequate for 4 lnb(f) pickups we could see a swapping of tp's for all mainstream channels SD and HD alike without much impact on the customer.
Point is no one should be making a statement that as of Nov 25th no more changes will happen or HD will "never" be on superdish. That is rediculous!
Delaying HD only on 105 now is a very good thing as it will allow the eventual transition to SD to occur over a much better time table. Also, at this time the impact of higher power 105 is not known other than it will improve footprint, add spotbeams and reduce SD alignment sensitivity.

I still see the Superdish in all sub's future but for most, it won't be until 2005.

Of course nothing is absolute but if you had watched the retailer chat and saw how Charlie was acting and talking about the HD it was quite apparant "in his mind" that they aren't looking to do HD on the 105 slot anytime in the future. He stressed to us that if we install HD customers now that it was very adviseable that we put a wing slot dish up as well to future proof things for the customer for the more distant future!

 

[TheForce]

fslove- I bow to anyone who is a mind reader. Cool! But even if you did read his emotion correctly, what makes you think he won't change his mind next week, next month and more importantly, next year when the hardware will be i n place for full implementation of 105? I'm betting he will do what ever is the best for E* at the time and not what his emotional body language indicated to you on the 25th. I suggest you give the guy a break and not read too much into body language especially considering Charlie's all too common squirming I see on the consumer chats. I doubt he could pass a lie detector test on a question like what is your name?
Your final solution to install the current Dish500 plus a 61.5/148 also makes good sense for the next few months. beyond that, ???? all bets are off, IMO.
Exciting times for HDTV but I would not want to be a dealer and have to explain all this to the public. My hat's off to you dealers!

 

[dkjos]

HD significance is greater then current user share

While HD users are a small percentage of current satellite customers, I think that D* and E* and Voom are forced to remain highly competitive in HD. Stores in the business of selling TVs will tell you a majority of the TVs that they are now selling are HD capable. This reflects an understanding on the part of customers that HD is in their near future. New satellite customers are likely looking at the HD offerings of each service when making their satellite system choice. Local digital broadcasting is becoming a highly visible news story. The HD early adapters are spreading the gospel.