Sorry, but I can only see H/J failure in the future...

[pitstop66]

As a installer, I see the receivers are in our shop now, but the training and customer education has been more than lacking, to say the least. Reminds me of the 922 roll-out, that came and went with the same 6 receivers on my van to this day. I have not had one customer say, "can't wait for that new all house/hd receiver".

I understand the "got to have the latest tech guys", but I just don't see this going with the public.

Here's why:
- I am just guessing based on home visits, 30% have 1 HD TV. 10% have 2 HD TV's.
- cost
- no ota support
- no sling adapter support
- no ota support
- no sd (coax) support

I see about 10 more things for me to carry around every day, that will get used once a month.

Your thoughts.

 

[sparc]

rf modulator could solve the sd issue and OTA support is coming eventually.

Do the 70% of your customers that still only have SD tvs require sling adapter support? Sling adapters only cost $30 and can be plugged into the hopper.

The funny thing is that almost 70% of households in america have at least one HDTV set. Not sure if that says something about the area you're installing or satellite customers in general. Article about hdtv penetration in US households - Google Search

 

[LER]

It does have Sling Adapter Support.

 

[LER]

And the Question/Answers threads says OTA is coming this (2012) Summer. So.... I think you are very negative.

 

[mike123abc]

As a installer, I see the receivers are in our shop now, but the training and customer education has been more than lacking, to say the least. Reminds me of the 922 roll-out, that came and went with the same 6 receivers on my van to this day. I have not had one customer say, "can't wait for that new all house/hd receiver".

I understand the "got to have the latest tech guys", but I just don't see this going with the public.

Here's why:
- I am just guessing based on home visits, 30% have 1 HD TV. 10% have 2 HD TV's.
- cost
- no ota support
- no sling adapter support
- no ota support
- no sd (coax) support

I see about 10 more things for me to carry around every day, that will get used once a month.

Your thoughts.

Well it only costs the customer $4/month more maybe if they were to only be a 1 DVR household. If they were going to be a 2 DVR house it probably saves them money. For new customers it really probably a minor price difference and they get HD and whole home DVR. I do not see it as a step backwards, it has composit output for standard definition TVs. The SD boxes would cost them $7/month anyways, now at least the get the DVR function.s

 

[dfergie]

And the Question/Answers threads says OTA is coming this (2012) Summer. So.... I think you are very negative.

Exactly ... http://www.satelliteguys.us/hopper-zone/278717-answers-your-hopper-questions.html

 

[pitstop66]

I am not trying to be negative, but LER , "OTA is coming this summer" is the same as we do not know yet, but we are working on it.

sparc,
I am sure it has to do with my location in the middle of the midwest, but people don't have 3 or 4 HD TV's. Usually it is 2 HD's and 1 or 2 "old TVS".

 

[pitstop66]

Just wanted to add, I wish Dish and the Hopper all the best...I just don't see it being the big deal being made here. Most of my customers are happy recording a couple programs and watching "dancing with the stars" in HD.

 

[Backup Brain]

I don't get this analysis. Once people get a DVR, there's no going back for the vast majority. We've always had two DVRs (living room and bedroom) and back in the old days with the ReplayTVs, we had access to each DVR from the other. When we went to Dish DVRs, we lost that. Hopper and Joey bring that back, with many more benefits. We tended not to use the bedroom DVR much, because recordings were trapped on that device. That problem is solved now.

PTAT alone is a huge upgrade. Knowing that you'll never miss a show on the major networks (as long as you remember to save it to the user partition within the next 8 days(!)) will allow people more freedom to sample more programming. Having PTAT means that I can try out any network show without doing anything other than finding it; no need to set up a timer. So if a friend mentions something new the day after it airs, I know it's always going to be available for me to go back and sample. I wish I could extend PTAT to also catch the nighttime talk shows, so if the day after I hear that there was a great music performance on a show I don't watch, like Leno, I could go back and see that. PTAT puts programming even more into the control of the customer.

Forum members make a big deal about OTA, but I wonder how many Dish customers use it at all. It's completely irrelevant to me. Where I live, I can only get two OTA stations (a local PBS and a Spanish station); without satellite and access to San Francisco locals, I'd have no access to major networks at all (well, there's Comcast, but the less said about that horror the better).

The OP said that "10% have 2 HD TV's." Not doubting his personal experience, but seeing that only HDTVs have been for sale for at least 3-4 years, I'd say that's a problem that will solve itself over time.

Comparing the H/J to the 922 isn't a good match, in my view. The 922 was always sold and marketed as the high end solution for the advanced customer. I am that customer, but I passed on the 922 (based on the reports here). The H/J seems to me to be the 922 done right, for the mass consumer.

 

[JM42]

As a installer, I see the receivers are in our shop now, but the training and customer education has been more than lacking, to say the least.

I can't speak for training, but of course there hasn't been any customer education, the product's not out yet.

Reminds me of the 922 roll-out, that came and went with the same 6 receivers on my van to this day.

Other than listing it on their website and a few Charlie Chats, Dish did virtually nothing for the 922. It was always positioned as a niche, high end product, and then not promoted. It's lack of success is not a surprise to any observers, and I daresay this was not a surprise to Dish. Hopper on the other hand will be the new standard receiver and heavily promoted.

I have not had one customer say, "can't wait for that new all house/hd receiver".

Again it has not been promoted yet. From what we've been led to believe that will change in a big way come the 15th. Does D* do any MRV installs in your area? Folks that want the functionality probably went with D*/FIOS/UVerse/Cable. We'll know soon enough.

I understand the "got to have the latest tech guys", but I just don't see this going with the public.

Again, are there no D*, Uverse, FIOS, cable whole home installs in your market? These are customer Dish is losing currently - now they have a shot.

Here's why:
- I am just guessing based on home visits, 30% have 1 HD TV. 10% have 2 HD TV's.

Then a VIP Duo would be the better solution right now. Hopper is not for everyone.

- cost

This has been beat to death, but costs are in line if not lower than the competition. Costs can be more than VIP, but for now VIP still offers folks a choice.

- no ota support

It will be there, and despite all the naysayers, I would bet we see it within 6 months.

- no sling adapter support

Wrong.

- no ota support

Deja Vu. I know this varies by market, but no one I know with Sat (E* or D*) has OTA other than me.

- no sd (coax) support.

Again, if that's the right solution then VIP may be better, or a modulator.

Dish has been the last holdout on modulated coax output, so they are only competing aganst themselves in this regard and are not at a disadvantage with the competition.

Dish definitely broke some ties with the past on Hopper, they are looking forward to a more HD centric future. It fills a big hole in the Dish feature set. In the near term VIP still has a place. With the combination Dish has more options than the competitors.

 

[dare2be]

Well it only costs the customer $4/month more maybe if they were to only be a 1 DVR household.

I'm a 1 DVR household. It'll cost me $11/month more to go to hopper.

 

[mikethedishguy]

Failure of the H/J is relitive to the expectations. Under the current conditions what Dish might expect from the H/J is current customers who have multi HD DVRs and current customers that have more than 2 HD tvs would be prospective users of the H/J system, In the state and counties I work in this could be a fairly high # It would depend on the cost. I would not expect to have it expand the current customer base as both Direct and the cable Cos. can and will expect to be competitive. This would also reflect the trend from Dish, last year they lost subs. yet they had a more profitable year, why, because the are getting more from existing customers.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

I am just guessing based on home visits, 30% have 1 HD TV. 10% have 2 HD TV's.

But more and more are getting additional TV's every day. For the last few years people have been begging for HD on TV2 and now they can have it. And more are going to want it as we move forward.

- cost

For new customers it can be free, for existing customers its going to be $100... I don't see cost as a factor especially when the cost to install them is going to drop dramatically. (And since your an installer I can see why you would be concerned as your pay will go down as well.)

- no ota support

Coming this summer.

- no sling adapter support

Sling adapter works fine with it.

- no ota support

Is there an echo?

- no sd (coax) support

Easily fixed with a $12 modulator. But how many people with HDTV's hook up via coax?

 

[Centex]

Easily fixed with a $12 modulator. But how many people with HDTV's hook up via coax?

For that matter, how may SD TVs are out there with no component inputs? Don't get me wrong I know they are still out there, but is that such a big deal as to be a deal breaker? And again, easily fixed with a $12 modulator.

 

[mikethedishguy]

For new customers it can be free, for existing customers its going to be $100... I don't see cost as a factor especially when the cost to install them is going to drop dramatically. (And since your an installer I can see why you would be concerned as your pay will go down as well.)


Though I am sure that Dish will pay less, This will not cost less to install nor will it take less time and it will create it own set of problems which have not been forseen or dish will create them for us. Every time dish has made a change over the last 10 years it has cost me time, money or both. though to their credit I think that for the most part the customer has benifited from the changes

 

[Scherrman]

The customer eduacation means nothing right now since the product has not even been released. We are a retailer in Iowa and we still have customers interested in getting the Hopper. We won't install a lot at first but I never expected to. I see it becoming pretty popular.

The retailer and installer eduacation is what really bothers me. Dish has done next to nothing to prepare retailers to sell this. If I didn't have this website I would barely even know a new receiver was coming out.

Back to customer education. Once the Hopper is released Dish is having one of their largest ad campaigns ever and they are running them heavy during March madness. Even non basketball fans watch March Madness. I think the ads will draw a lot of attention for Dish.

 

[navychop]

SDTVs with a Joey can hook up to the composite outputs. Or, as stated, use an RF modulator and feed several via coax.

Also as noted above, an advertising blitz starts 3/15. That will educate customers as to what is available. Two or more TVs = consider H/J. Single TV = H/J probably not the best solution for you, unless you want to future proof for additional TVs later.

Prepare to be pleasantly surprised at the demand. I wonder what the ratio of H/J's on your truck to all older receivers on your truck will be by the end of the summer.

 

[Tampa8]

I'm a 1 DVR household. It'll cost me $11/month more to go to hopper.

And so, what, it will fail because you won't get it? You've posted that what, about 40 times? We get it, someone with a 722K feeding two TV's, one in SD will pay $11 more to watch two TV's in HD with all the features of the Hopper......... But many others with different set-ups will pay little more or even less.

 

[mdram]

PTAT alone is a huge upgrade. Knowing that you'll never miss a show on the major networks (as long as you remember to save it to the user partition within the next 8 days(!)) will allow people more freedom to sample more programming. Having PTAT means that I can try out any network show without doing anything other than finding it; no need to set up a timer. So if a friend mentions something new the day after it airs, I know it's always going to be available for me to go back and sample. I wish I could extend PTAT to also catch the nighttime talk shows, so if the day after I hear that there was a great music performance on a show I don't watch, like Leno, I could go back and see that. PTAT puts programming even more into the control of the customer.

i dont see PTAT as a selling point. i dont watch many network shows, all these reality shows are a waste of time.
i would much rather see 6 full tuners and allow you to record what you want 24/7
doesnt the 3 hours of 3-4 channels 7 days a week use alot of space that could be left for what i want, not what they want to give me

 

[Scherrman]

i dont see PTAT as a selling point. i dont watch many network shows, all these reality shows are a waste of time.
i would much rather see 6 full tuners and allow you to record what you want 24/7
doesnt the 3 hours of 3-4 channels 7 days a week use alot of space that could be left for what i want, not what they want to give me

Let me get this straight. You don't see PTAT being a selling point to customers because you don't care for the networks and reality shows? I'm betting there are millions of people that feel different about that. I'll bet there are at least 10 shows between my wife and I that we like to watch that are on the networks. There are a lot more shows that I like to record at those same times. Sure is nice to know that on some nights I'll have two programs being recorded on just one tuner so I now have two extra tuners to work with.

Obviously this system won't work for everyone but I feel Dish made it so it can fit most people's needs.