Sorry, but I can only see H/J failure in the future...

[MikeD-C05]

Keep on trying, Mike. I really enjoy watching you dance on the head of a pin to make a point!

I know I 'm dancing as fast as I can , but I doubt DISH cares about mine or anyone else opinions on this issue. It just really chaps my ass that once again they let the extra $7.00 charge stand in the way of sub additions. IF they look back on the last two years , they have only added subs twice in 8 quarters. This is because of the addition of the crazy Additional receiver fees raging from $7.00 - $17.00. That should scream at them what they are doing is not working. In the middle of the economic recession they hiked equipment fees.

Then they decide that the whole house dvr will be the savior for their company. Great idea, great equipment and everyone would want one. Then they get greedy again and decide to make a stupid mistake and try to charge all over again for the $10.00 HD pack they had done away with a year or so ago, when they introduced "FREE HD for LIFE campaign, and add an extra $1.00 to boot. So what do you get for that $11.00? A thin client that relays the hd image of what you can watch on the hopper . So instead of using a say 211k that has an ota tuner and a sat tuner for independent viewing for $7.00 a month, you get to pay $11.00 a month just to be able to watch a hd picture in another room in your house.

Like others have pointed out and I agree 100%, charge $4.00 for the first joey and $7.00 each for the others , and it would of been a home run for DISH , existing subs and go miles towards attracting new subs. DISH put monthly revenue profits over long term growth in attracting new subs. I can see by summer when gas is $5.00 a gallon or HIGHER, that the new system will not be pushing subs in the door. If anything you are going to see more churn, and more existing subs downgrade to lower packs and or the Welcome pack for $14.99 and they are going to lose extra equipment to save money. Because the first thing people cut when the gas goes up is luxuries and satellite tv is definitely a luxury with the hopper/joey system being the highest luxury of all. Wrong price at the wrong economic times. A golden opportunity for DISH wasted once again. Is it any wonder that DISH has stayed at under $14 million subs for years now, losing & regaining the same million or so subs?

 

[TheKrell]

What's a "pom pom waiver"? Do I have to sign one before I get my Hopper/Joey?

Tyralak didn't add a smiley to this post. But I believe he was being facetious regarding Mike's misspelling of the word "waver". Unfortrunately, when you have to explain a joke, it's not funny any more.

 

[Tampa8]

Yes DISH is cheaper than the others on their version of Whole house dvr, but that doesn't mean that they will be successful in getting new subs just because they are the least HIGHEST of all. This was a golden opportunity to attract new subs and retain older subs for years. DISH just found a way to charge you for the HD pack all over again. They went a year or so ago and had the "FREE HD For LIFE" campaign. Many were automatically signed up and it looked like DISH was moving from making hd a premium price and making it the norm, and no longer charging you the extra $10.00 a month for hd. Then they charge you $7.00 for the first Joey + $4.00 MVF=$11.00. They just found a way to add the HD pack price back into your monthly bill + an extra $1.00 to boot. They could of just charged you the $4.00 price for the first Joey and then $7.00 for each additional Joey , and it would of been fairer for everyone. The extra $7.00 fee will be what stops them from adding more subs. Paying an extra $11.00 just to see hd in another room is ridiculous.

I don't agree with some that you are being ridiculous, but you seem to ignore certain facts. When you say it's Dish again charging for HD, I'll ask you this. If I have two 612's serving two TV's both in HD, and I now pay $16 in fees, and get the Hopper with one Joey, serving two TV's both in HD for $17 in fees, $1 more than I now pay for alot more technology, how exactly is that Dish charging me $10 for HD again??
I think what becomes tiring for those who do not agree is that it this one example - a 722 serving two TV's, one in SD where yes, you will pay $11 more. But taking other examples the cost is not that.

In addition, you (again not just you) keep referring to Dish now charging an extra fee for the first Joey. Two problems with that, it's not an extra fee, it has always been in the plan since we have known about it, the only reason imho this has become such a big topic is because some "thought" or wished it was free. More importantly though, Dish now gives the first receiver free. Dish still will with the Hopper. Dish now charges $10 for second DVR for a second TV, Dish will be charging $7 for a second TV with DVR and HD capabilities. The difference is they will now charge $4 for the new technology, but as I stated, in my case that's only $1 more than I now pay.

I'm saying your analogy of a 722 serving two TV's one in SD, is not the analogy, it is mine, two DVR's with both TV's in HD, that's what the Hopper is. Also what would it cost you right now, present technology to get the second TV in HD? $7 with a 211K, or $10 with a full DVR? So why aren't you comparing that upgrade to upgrading to a Hopper system?

 

[Tyralak]

Tyralak didn't add a smiley to this post. But I believe he was being facetious regarding Mike's misspelling of the word "waver". Unfortrunately, when you have to explain a joke, it's not funny any more.

Yes, I was mocking his spelling.

 

[isaacmorseMI]

I know I 'm dancing as fast as I can , but I doubt DISH cares about mine or anyone else opinions on this issue. It just really chaps my ass that once again they let the extra $7.00 charge stand in the way of sub additions. IF they look back on the last two years , they have only added subs twice in 8 quarters. This is because of the addition of the crazy Additional receiver fees raging from $7.00 - $17.00. That should scream at them what they are doing is not working. In the middle of the economic recession they hiked equipment fees.

Then they decide that the whole house dvr will be the savior for their company. Great idea, great equipment and everyone would want one. Then they get greedy again and decide to make a stupid mistake and try to charge all over again for the $10.00 HD pack they had done away with a year or so ago, when they introduced "FREE HD for LIFE campaign, and add an extra $1.00 to boot. So what do you get for that $11.00? A thin client that relays the hd image of what you can watch on the hopper . So instead of using a say 211k that has an ota tuner and a sat tuner for independent viewing for $7.00 a month, you get to pay $11.00 a month just to be able to watch a hd picture in another room in your house.

Like others have pointed out and I agree 100%, charge $4.00 for the first joey and $7.00 each for the others , and it would of been a home run for DISH , existing subs and go miles towards attracting new subs. DISH put monthly revenue profits over long term growth in attracting new subs. I can see by summer when gas is $5.00 a gallon or HIGHER, that the new system will not be pushing subs in the door. If anything you are going to see more churn, and more existing subs downgrade to lower packs and or the Welcome pack for $14.99 and they are going to lose extra equipment to save money. Because the first thing people cut when the gas goes up is luxuries and satellite tv is definitely a luxury with the hopper/joey system being the highest luxury of all. Wrong price at the wrong economic times. A golden opportunity for DISH wasted once again. Is it any wonder that DISH has stayed at under $14 million subs for years now, losing & regaining the same million or so subs?

I thought your name was Mike not Bob!

Sent from my iPad 2 using Forum Runner

 

[navychop]

Keep on trying, Mike. I really enjoy watching you dance on the head of a pin to make a point!

He's on a mission!

On to the windmills!

 

[dishfan82]

Yes DISH is cheaper than the others on their version of Whole house dvr, but that doesn't mean that they will be successful in getting new subs just because they are the least HIGHEST of all. This was a golden opportunity to attract new subs and retain older subs for years. DISH just found a way to charge you for the HD pack all over again. They went a year or so ago and had the "FREE HD For LIFE" campaign. Many were automatically signed up and it looked like DISH was moving from making hd a premium price and making it the norm, and no longer charging you the extra $10.00 a month for hd. Then they charge you $7.00 for the first Joey + $4.00 MVF=$11.00. They just found a way to add the HD pack price back into your monthly bill + an extra $1.00 to boot. They could of just charged you the $4.00 price for the first Joey and then $7.00 for each additional Joey , and it would of been fairer for everyone. The extra $7.00 fee will be what stops them from adding more subs. Paying an extra $11.00 just to see hd in another room is ridiculous.

Mike no that's not true. People who have a regular hd box like I do in the bedroom already pay 6 bucks so for me to switch to hopper its a 5.00 increase so I'm not sure where you're getting an 11 increase? Maybe for someone without a box in their room currently then sure it is an 11.00 increase. Even if they charged you 4.00 for the first Joey and 4.00 whole home DVr fee that's 8 bucks so yeah that would increase my bill by 2 bucks. Like I said ones who don't have a box in a 2nd bedroom will notice a difference in price that is bigger. It's not as if they are finding a way to add the hd extra pack onto your bill. Other providers like Comcast charge you for hd, each box, a whole home DVr fee. Every company charges you a DVr fee of some some sort. The new system will attract customers if anything rather than steer them away. If they said ok joey is free only for the first tv then you'd still have people saying okay I want Joey free on all Tvs because it has no picture and picture etc.

 

[patmurphey]

I give up! Where did Dish "require" Mike to upgrade to a 2 HD TV system? His current setup has 2nd TV in SD with no addtional fee. A second HD TV requires a second box, ergo a fee as with any other product today.

 

[Tampa8]

Yes, some are forgetting in their argument that if they want one receiver that supplies two TV's, one in HD and on in SD, they still have that option, even new subscribers. Those same people now want two TV's with new technology and both in HD for free, when if they wanted that right now without a Hopper system using older technology it would cost them a minimum of $7 more, or $10 more depending on receiver. But now they want it free?? That's the crux of my disagreement that somehow now, Dish is wrong to want exactly what they charge for now, a fee for a second TV in HD, and nowhere near the $11 more being used as an example if you have two TV's in HD now.
People understood before the Hopper that if you wanted a cheap way to get two TV's, the 722 was the answer, if you wanted two TV's in HD a second receiver with a fee was the the answer. That has not changed.

 

[lparsons21]

Yes, some are forgetting in their argument that if they want one receiver that supplies two TV's, one in HD and on in SD, they still have that option, even new subscribers. Those same people now want two TV's with new technology and both in HD for free, when if they wanted that right now without a Hopper system using older technology it would cost them a minimum of $7 more, or $10 more depending on receiver. But now want it free??

That is exactly on point!

I tried the 2 TVs with one being SD a long time ago and came away thinking that was a great way to ruin a good DVR experience! Never understood the attraction.

But you are spot on, if you want 2 tvs with HD, it costs $7 minimum to do it the old way and have no shared content. Now to move to it costs $11 and gets your 2 TVs with HD, 3 full time tuners to share with the effect of 6 tuners during primetime, and centralized management of all of it. Basically $4 more than doing it with current equipment!

 

[navychop]

You see, it's those black helicopters. Some think black uniforms will spill out and will kick in the door with new sat receivers.

They're actually in white lab coats, came in a white van, and have a jacket for .......

None of you understand! If I just yell it often enough, I'll make you see!

Now, I'll try to stifle myself.

 

[Coach Knight]

I don't agree with some that you are being ridiculous, but you seem to ignore certain facts. When you say it's Dish again charging for HD, I'll ask you this. If I have two 612's serving two TV's both in HD, and I now pay $16 in fees, and get the Hopper with one Joey, serving two TV's both in HD for $17 in fees, $1 more than I now pay for alot more technology, how exactly is that Dish charging me $10 for HD again??
I think what becomes tiring for those who do not agree is that it this one example - a 722 serving two TV's, one in SD where yes, you will pay $11 more. But taking other examples the cost is not that.

In addition, you (again not just you) keep referring to Dish now charging an extra fee for the first Joey. Two problems with that, it's not an extra fee, it has always been in the plan since we have known about it, the only reason imho this has become such a big topic is because some "thought" or wished it was free. More importantly though, Dish now gives the first receiver free. Dish still will with the Hopper. Dish now charges $10 for second DVR for a second TV, Dish will be charging $7 for a second TV with DVR and HD capabilities. The difference is they will now charge $4 for the new technology, but as I stated, in my case that's only $1 more than I now pay.

I'm saying your analogy of a 722 serving two TV's one in SD, is not the analogy, it is mine, two DVR's with both TV's in HD, that's what the Hopper is. Also what would it cost you right now, present technology to get the second TV in HD? $7 with a 211K, or $10 with a full DVR? So why aren't you comparing that upgrade to upgrading to a Hopper system?

Amen, Tampa8! I've said it before and I'll say it again: "Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story."

Fact: It's a very minor cost difference from existing options for HD/DVR on the second TV.
Fact: It's much more advanced technology...whole home DVR, PTAT, etc.
Fact: It is available at a comparable or lower price point than all competitors.
Fact: (I really hate to say this because it's been way overused, but...)No one is making someone upgrade if the SD on the second TV is Ok for you and the fees outweigh the potential benefits.
Fact: Only one configuration (which is not comparable) is being used in the example of $11 increase.
Fact: You just can't make some people happy!

 

[bigdaddy10]

In my case my bill will actually go down. I left dish in December because I could not get HD on a 4th television and they would not give me a 4th leased receiver. I had a 922 and two 622's. My fees for those 3 boxes were $44. With 2 hoppers and 2 joeys I will could have 4 HD televisions and my receiver fees will go down to $31.

I tried to sign up with Directv and they screwed up my order. I decided to cut the cord at that point and wait for CES to see what was coming out. I'm glad I did and I am now going back to dish as soon as I can sign up. In my scenario I will now have the 4 hd televisions with more functionality and my bill will decrease by $10. The 2nd sd televisions on each box was of no use to me since I replaced all my sd televisions with HD. I was a customer with Dish for 11yrs and really hated to leave. I was pretty upset with the initial receiver fees ($17 for duo receivers) and voiced my opinion on numerous occasions. The fee structure they currently have is a bit more palatable to me and appears to be in line with other providers. I priced out my needed configuration with our local cable company and their fees came out much higher with less functionality and no whole home dvr service. Direct was less but when the 2 yrs is up I would be paying more.

 

[MikeD-C05]

Okay, in the terms of what I have today, a Vip 722k , it would cost me $11.00 more to do the same thing I do with my 722k in sd, in hd using the Hopper/joey combo. Right now I use a 211k in my bedroom and it cost my an extra $7.00 more than what I can do in sd with just the 722k and coax for tv 2, But I gain the use of one sat tuner and one ota tuner for independent viewing. IF I were to upgrade to the hopper/joey system It would cost me another $4.00 on top of that AND I would lose the extra ota tuner.

I can tell by the consensus of many here that ya'll are ready to accept these and other DISH FEES ,because the idea of the new whole house dvr has got ya'll all excited. I get that. I felt the same thing in 2009 for the new Vip Sling 922 dvr and the promises of tv 2 in hd, and we all know how that experience turned out. In the end we will all have to decide whether we will bend over and take these extra FEE hikes. Right now the only thing that the hopper does, that I can't do with the 722k +ota module is record 4 networks on ONE tuner. I can do the same thing using the dual ota module and dual sat tuners on the 722k. So I consider that a real draw. As for ota , the hopper loses on that one , for now. Will I upgrade to the hopper /joey system someday? Probably. I was hopping that DISH would really reconsider the one fee of the first joey, because that one thing would be a turn around for DISH . A true "NEW DAWN" as Joe Clayton says. But they have picked their poison fees and the chips will fall where they may. I think it is a big mistake and I don't see this helping to add subs to their bottom line. As I've said before , bad pricing , bad timing and high gas prices will doom this system from being all it can be.

But just remember this. I was very vocal about my issues with the 922 and I predicted it was a bust of a receiver and it was . DISH has pulled the 922 and discontinued it for all practical purposes. I made the decision to trade the buggy box in for a new 722k back in November of 2010. If everyone is ready to forget the 922 debacle and the many promises not kept, the software problems ,disappointments etc, so be it. Don't say I didn't warn you. I am through trying to make the case. IN the end I will predict that next quarter we will see very few subs added or maybe even a loss AGAIN. DISH made a decision back two years ago to put monthly revenue over adding subs when they hiked the price of their additional receiver fees from $7.00 - $17.00 depending on what class of receiver you have. But they really started putting profits above all else when they added the DVR fee PEr DVR receiver. So I'm through trying to plead the case for growth over profits. In the end ,DISH has to live with what they sowed.

It is just about tv anyway ... Satellite tv.

 

[MikeD-C05]

Expressing one's opinion is one thing. Doing so at every slight opportunity, and with vitriol and name calling, is another.

Perhaps we should have another war zone, where the more intemperate posts can go, and which is easily avoided.

Navychop I am big enough of a man to admit when I am wrong and I apologize for calling you a" DISH Pom Pom Waiver" or as I should of said Waver (thanks Tyralak). But either way You were right it was childish. I just got the feeling that everyone here is so excited about the new hopper system they are overlooking the extra costs that comes with it. After I did the same thing with the 922 , I just want everyone to think twice about this upgrading. It is the same story as before: lack of promised features , coming soon , released before it is ready. But again , I apologize for any name calling.

 

[navychop]

Peace, my friend. Actually, there is much we agree upon. And thank you.

One thing is certain. The next couple of quarters are going to be very interesting.

 

[dwarren2]

May you live in interesting times!

 

[KAB]

Guys, we are the 1 per-center's. The other 99 don't care about Tech like we do. I predict the H/J will do NOTHING for Dish's bottom line. If the majority of consumers cared HALF about it as WE do, both Dish and Direct would have a LOT more subs.

 

[steve4810]

May you live in interesting times!

Hey. I recognize an insult when I see it, even if I'm not Chinese.

Take him down a notch or two Chop!

Sent from my Toshiba Thrive using SatelliteGuys

 

[MikeD-C05]

Guys, we are the 1 per-center's. The other 99 don't care about Tech like we do. I predict the H/J will do NOTHING for Dish's bottom line. If the majority of consumers cared HALF about it as WE do, both Dish and Direct would have a LOT more subs.

This 1% agrees with you 100% Kab.