Sony is FAKING Blu-Ray Demos

[Ilya]

Given T2k's barrage of Blu ray trashing posts and Lance's rantings Im inclined to believe that they both spend their weekends mowing Bill Gate's lawn.

Apart from your usual low-life adhom attacks you couldn't help your beloved Sony's case, loser.

Guys, we are all getting fed up with your personal attacks. Take it somewhere else! Stop chasing each other all over the forum. Stop provoking each other, and then reporting each other's posts. This is childish!

This will be my last and the only warning. It goes to both T2k and vurbano.

 

[rad]

Guys, we are all getting fed up with your personal attacks. Take it somewhere else! Stop chasing each other all over the forum. Stop provoking each other, and then reporting each other's posts. This is childish!

This will be my last and the only warning. It goes to both T2k and vurbano.

Thank you Ilya!

 

[colofan]

I second that Ilya!!!

 

[vurbano]

Guys, we are all getting fed up with your personal attacks. Take it somewhere else! Stop chasing each other all over the forum. Stop provoking each other, and then reporting each other's posts. This is childish!

This will be my last and the only warning. It goes to both T2k and vurbano.

With all due respect, I have not called this man any names.

 

[T2k]

Priceless...

 

[T2k]

Guys, we are all getting fed up with your personal attacks. Take it somewhere else! Stop chasing each other all over the forum. Stop provoking each other, and then reporting each other's posts. This is childish!

This will be my last and the only warning. It goes to both T2k and vurbano.

It's OK by me, believe me.:up

 

[chrisw27]

Anyway..

MPEG2 is fine. Why would you want to use a Microsoft product when H.264 is clearly the industry standard in HD content delivery and quality? I'd rather have MPEG2 and wait until they could implement H.264. Why? Because MPEG2 is already compatible with most hardware and doesn't require so much complex decoding. VC-1 is based on Windows Media 9 and will be locked into only playing on specific hardware that requires a decoding license from Microsoft.

 

[vurbano]

Anyway..

MPEG2 is fine. Why would you want to use a Microsoft product when H.264 is clearly the industry standard in HD content delivery and quality? I'd rather have MPEG2 and wait until they could implement H.264. Why? Because MPEG2 is already compatible with most hardware and doesn't require so much complex decoding. VC-1 is based on Windows Media 9 and will be locked into only playing on specific hardware that requires a decoding license from Microsoft.

Great post. Its ashame Bill Gates now going to control our DVD viewing.

 

[Ilya]

...only playing on specific hardware that requires a decoding license from Microsoft.

All Blu-ray and HD DVD players are required to support VC1 decoding (as well as MPEG-2 and H.264). VC1 is a mandatory component of both formats.

 

[T2k]

Plenty of misinfo in one post...

Anyway..

MPEG2 is fine. Why would you want to use a Microsoft product when H.264 is clearly the industry standard in HD content delivery and quality?

Ouch. Since when h.264 a standard and VC-1 isn't?

VC-1 is just as a standard as the h.264. In fact VC-1/WM9 is much more widely used for years now.

I'd rather have MPEG2 and wait until they could implement H.264. Why? Because MPEG2 is already compatible with most hardware and doesn't require so much complex decoding.

But it requires the much bigger storage, let alone the better quality of the new codecs. VC-1 is well-accepted, easy-to-make, requires half or less the space for same or better quality yet easier on hardware than h.264.

VC-1 is based on Windows Media 9 and will be locked into only playing on specific hardware that requires a decoding license from Microsoft.

Which is a quite funny reasoning when MPEG2 also license-based, payable to patent holders within the Moving Picture Expert Group. Licensing incl. royalties and fees handled by MPEG LA or Philips etc.

Ah and keep in mind, everything is locked to a specific, licensed hardware - including h.264 too. MPEG4 is also a patented proprietary technology - it's license-based, just like MPEG2 or VC-1.
FYI here are the license fees of h.264 AVC: http://www.mpegla.com/news/n_03-11-17_avc.html

Also FYI: it's a common knowledge that h.264 is more complex than VC-1 - that's why more hw-hungry as well.

Ooops, now you suddenly support Microsoft/VC-1, right? It's cheaper, less storage yet better quality (compared to MPEG2), less complex and handled only by one company instead of many (unlike mpeg4)...

 

[chrisw27]

Well you may be right, but I still hate it

I use Apple hardware and its pretty hard to get VC-1 content to play correctly, same goes with linux. I'm probably obsessed with H.264 because Apple stands behind it and I'm not a big fan of WMV.. but seriously, WMV9-based codec? Even if Sony is required to support it, i'm glad they're holding off from it for now. You could say VC-1 has more advantages, but think about the people who own linux and Apple hardware, they appreciate H.264 because its more available to almost all platforms. The video iPod also plays H.264 but I, and everyone else, could care less.

If VC-1 gets adopted by more people and more hardware starts to support it, then I'd probably change my mind. I wonder why Dish, DirectTV, Comcast and all those TV companies use H.264 and not VC-1 for their content delivery. Then again, we're talking about optical media formats.. err, I hate this stupid Blu-Ray and HD DVD war!

 

[mike123abc]

Microsoft set the licensing fees for VC-1 at 1/2 the cost of MPEG-4 h.264. That is why VC-1 is popular. MPEG-2 Patents are starting to expire so the cost for MPEG-2 is dropping fast.

 

[T2k]

Well you may be right, but I still hate it

I use Apple hardware and its pretty hard to get VC-1 content to play correctly, same goes with linux.

Apple is a joke, seriously. They choose not to write WM Player at all, left it to MS to support their "enormous" user base - of course, MS didn't give a sh*t about Apple's 4-5% market share, that's why the only player they made was such a bugfest. BTW Apple couldn't make their own h.264 content playable on their original Mini...

I'm probably obsessed with H.264 because Apple stands behind it and I'm not a big fan of WMV.. but seriously, WMV9-based codec? Even if Sony is required to support it, i'm glad they're holding off from it for now. You could say VC-1 has more advantages, but think about the people who own linux and Apple hardware, they appreciate H.264 because its more available to almost all platforms. The video iPod also plays H.264 but I, and everyone else, could care less.

Believe me, WM9-enabled machines outnumber both platform by 100:1...

If VC-1 gets adopted by more people and more hardware starts to support it, then I'd probably change my mind. I wonder why Dish, DirectTV, Comcast and all those TV companies use H.264 and not VC-1 for their content delivery. Then again, we're talking about optical media formats.. err, I hate this stupid Blu-Ray and HD DVD war!

VC-1 is already waaaay ahead of h.264.

 

[chrisw27]

Apple is a joke, seriously. They choose not to write WM Player at all, left it to MS to support their "enormous" user base - of course, MS didn't give a sh*t about Apple's 4-5% market share, that's why the only player they made was such a bugfest. BTW Apple couldn't make their own h.264 content playable on their original Mini...



Believe me, WM9-enabled machines outnumber both platform by 100:1...


VC-1 is already waaaay ahead of h.264.

Okay, so if Apple doesn't write a Windows Media player, they are a joke? Microsoft is the one you should blame for only writing decent codecs for their own operating system. They give Apple sh*t products that are buggy and outdated while Apple gives Quicktime and iTunes for Windows, and yet they work very well, are updated, and a lot of people like using them. All Microsoft wants to do is create their own formats and try to get everyone to use them, locking them into their products and OS. By using WM9/VC-1, you think everyone should switch to Windows OS from linux, freebsd, and the other OS to play HD-DVD media?

Yeah, VC-1 is way ahead of H.264 in your Microsoft monopoly dreamworld.

Microsoft loves to restrict everyone to their territory.

 

[teamerickson]

Although widely considered to be Microsoft's product, there are actually 15 other companies in the VC-1 patent pool (as of April 2006). As a SMPTE standard, VC-1 is open to implementation by 3rd parties which in turn have to pay licensing fees to the MPEG-LA licensing body.

 

[T2k]

Okay, so if Apple doesn't write a Windows Media player, they are a joke? Microsoft is the one you should blame for only writing decent codecs for their own operating system. They give Apple sh*t products that are buggy and outdated while Apple gives Quicktime and iTunes for Windows, and yet they work very well, are updated, and a lot of people like using them.

You're quite confused, I think. FYI: player != codec - codecs are not 'made' per OS whatsoever. Apple chose NOT TO license WM9 and include it in QT or anywhere else in its proprietary OS - Apple is the only one here you can blame.

The fact that MS bothered itself to write anything for Apple is already a gesture, that's it.
iTunes is a memory hog and a well-known buggy sh*t on Windows despite Apple is learning to code for Windows for years now.

Let's face it, Apple blew it, period. Jobs always like to play like somebody *realy* influental player - yet 4-5% market share gives you only 4-5% influence, nothing more, marketing and bold statements can only give you another few percent (pseudo-)influence, that's it.

All Microsoft wants to do is create their own formats and try to get everyone to use them, locking them into their products and OS.

Umm sorry but which of the following platforms are fully supplied by only one company: OS X, Windows?

Don't be ridiculous: the biggest, most selfish 'developer' is Apple. They want to supply you with office, with presentation, with video-editing, with audio production, with compositing, with photo editing software - EVERYTHING COMES FROM THE BIG Stev, err... BRO nowadays on OS X.

When MS included the browser, they killed Netscape, they've been sued - Apple's only escape its barely existing market share, otherwise it'd be 10x worse than Microsoft.

Of course, they are doing it for the same reason: to own you and your expenses.

By using WM9/VC-1, you think everyone should switch to Windows OS from linux, freebsd, and the other OS to play HD-DVD media?

? Who said that? You can watch VC-1 on linux, on BSD. The only platform you can't watch it easily is your beloved OS X - thanks to the loser Jobs.

Yeah, VC-1 is way ahead of H.264 in your Microsoft monopoly dreamworld.

Go and read up a little bit before you further get into this subject... VC-1 is years ahead of h.264, period.

Microsoft loves to restrict everyone to their territory.

Hahahaha, this is the funniest statement an Apple user can make. :devil:

 

[T2k]

Although widely considered to be Microsoft's product, there are actually 15 other companies in the VC-1 patent pool (as of April 2006). As a SMPTE standard, VC-1 is open to implementation by 3rd parties which in turn have to pay licensing fees to the MPEG-LA licensing body.

Correct.

 

[CochiseGuy]

Unbelievable. Sony has reached its lowest point - this is the most pathetic, cheapest tactics, faking your public technology demos.:down

I almost hate to bumpt this thread up on you - it seems it got a little touchy - but it seemed better than starting a new thread.

But, after reading glowing reports of Blu-Ray demos for over a year and now reading about the dismal quality of most of the first BD title releases, I can't help but think "What Happened?". Was Sony really stooping to faking those demos?

Over on the Avsforum there's a member named Amir who works for Microsoft, in VC-1 development. OK, not impartial in the HD DVD / BD format "war", but credible nonetheless. He has some interesting posts:

There really was no such thing as a blu-ray player then {Talking about a Jan. 2005 CEDIA Blu-Ray demo}. Sony simply had modified their Japanese BD recorders to play MPEG-2 streams. And in many cases, the player sits there, while a hard disk player actually plays standard MPEG-2 VBR streams from a hard disk (read, unlimited peaks). Indeed, even at CES, many so called players were doing the same. I went around and ejected the discs in every BD demo and the movies kept playing!!! Yes naughty But there is so much smoke and hype around BD that someone has to lift the curtain and show what is behind it… Even now, they do this. In Taiwan for example, the Sonystyle store has a dummy BD player.

And the "Blu-Ray demo in the Taiwan SonyStyle Store:

Look for yourself. Here are the pictures a colleague of mine took just a couple of weeks ago at Sony Style showroom in Taiwan:

The place: {URL removed, see "store.jpeg" below}
The main event: {URL removed, see "sushi.jpeg" below}
The guy behind the curtain: {URL removed, see "curtain.jpg" below}Note that there is nothing but a power cord hooked to a player being demoed in June of this year!

I could tell you more but you probably have just eaten ....

Blu-Ray is an optical disc technology. Showing media clips from a hard drive is not a Blu-Ray demo, it's a demo of digital media.

I sure love my my Sony HDTV, but I gotta say it - Typical Sony arrogance, and blatant false advertising!