Sonicview Firmware Motor Pointing Woes

[jotruelove]

Only Picking Up AM4 (101.0W)

Greetings all from warm and sunny Florida.

I am writing with a curious matter. I am able to pick up bird AM4 with good signal (mid 70s) and good quality (mid 60-low 70s) on just a few of the transponders (11708,11822, 11983, 12020 are the strongest) but no others. And though I can use my motor to go to other birds and I get great signal, of course withour quality I have nothing.

The quality bounces too, from its quality mark (mid sixties) to 99 and back to mid sixties.

Any ideas what I might do to make the rest of the birds follow suit? I am able to aim off AM4 and return to it via the motor, so I am locked on in. Just locked in inaccuratly.

I have my SG2100 set at 30 for my Lattitide, and my dish is a little over 25 degrees, though it is hard to tell because my "quality" dish does not have a pointer on the elevation side, so I am guessing based on signal strength (observed with a meter and outdoor TV), but could be in error with that.

Thanks for reading this post. I tried to give all the details. Thanks in advance for the replies...

Jim

SonicView SV360 Premier
Moteck SG2100
Standard LNB
Lat:30.86
Lon:-86.60
ALMOST True South

 

[Wescopc]

You might start by reading this:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/170861-motor-setup-questions.html
I think post #14 by AcWxRadar might help you.
BTW
Bob

 

[jotruelove]

Thanks for the Input

I'll give all the suggestions a try

Jim

PS: Thanks for the welcome. I have been reading the site for a few months now; I feel like I know 1/2 the folks here

 

[Jullius]

I had a Sonicview 360. Sadly this receiver has a lot of bugs. I struggled with getting it to work with a motorized setup.

I think that the USALS does not work correctly on this model.

Check out this thread:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/162994-sonicview-360-premier-disappointment.html

I have a Fortec Dynamic now and I LOVE it. Wish I could give you better news. Maybe not all SV360s are bad, but mine was.

 

[AcWxRadar]

I have to agree with Jullius.

I also tried using a SV 360 Premier with a motor and it is really bad!
I was able to get it to work, but it was so lame that I retired it. I let my brother take it home to play with and he refers to it with a very negative explicative (explicative deleted).

I am sorry, but I would not recommend it for use with a motor. I already had my motor aligned and fine tuned to the arc and I still couldn't get the Sonic View to work very well.

The USALS function is not fully functional. If you continue to use the Sonic View, use the 1.2 DiSEqC mode for positioning your motor.

I honestly would use a more legitimate receiver, the early Coolsat models (4, 5 and 6000's) or a Traxis would serve you a lot better. I use the Coolsat 5000 and you would have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands it you wanted to take it away!

The Coolsat 5000 is not HD (but you don't need that as there are very few channels that are FTA which are HD - just a handful). It is not fancy and doesn't have anything like a PVR or what-nots, but the CS 5K really works well and the menus are set up so that you can understand what you are doing easily. It is user friendly and it is fast at BLIND SCANNING, really quite fast.

The problem is, they don't make the Coolsat (4, 5 or 6000) anymore. They made a big mistake in discontinuing these receivers. You can still pick them up off E-Bay for a song, though. Just be cautious about hack software installed in them and the overall condition.

I would like to save you a headache from the Sonic View, if I could. You have the Premier, the Elite isn't a whole lot better, judging from the reports that I have heard. I could go on, but I think you get the point already.

AcWxRADAR

 

[B.J.]

Greetings all from warm and sunny Florida.

I am writing with a curious matter. I am able to pick up bird AM4 with good signal (mid 70s) and good quality (mid 60-low 70s) on just a few of the transponders (11708,11822, 11983, 12020 are the strongest) but no others. And though I can use my motor to go to other birds and I get great signal, of course withour quality I have nothing.

The quality bounces too, from its quality mark (mid sixties) to 99 and back to mid sixties.

Any ideas what I might do to make the rest of the birds follow suit? I am able to aim off AM4 and return to it via the motor, so I am locked on in. Just locked in inaccuratly.

I have my SG2100 set at 30 for my Lattitide, and my dish is a little over 25 degrees, though it is hard to tell because my "quality" dish does not have a pointer on the elevation side, so I am guessing based on signal strength (observed with a meter and outdoor TV), but could be in error with that.

Thanks for reading this post. I tried to give all the details. Thanks in advance for the replies...

Jim

SonicView SV360 Premier
Moteck SG2100
Standard LNB
Lat:30.86
Lon:-86.60
ALMOST True South

I guess my question would be why are you starting on AMC4, rather than on your true south satellite? It's really difficult to align your dish if you don't start on your south satellite. Seems like you should be starting with AMC3. What process did you use to align the dish???

I wouldn't fool with AMC4 or any other sat until you find AMC3.

Another question.... looking at the angle pointer on the SG2100 (may take a mirror to see it), what does it indicate when you're locked on AMC4? It should be reading something like 16-17 deg. And it should be at or very near the zero point when you look for AMC3.

 

[AcWxRadar]

I guess my question would be why are you starting on AMC4, rather than on your true south satellite? It's really difficult to align your dish if you don't start on your south satellite. Seems like you should be starting with AMC3. What process did you use to align the dish???

I wouldn't fool with AMC4 or any other sat until you find AMC3.

Another question.... looking at the angle pointer on the SG2100 (may take a mirror to see it), what does it indicate when you're locked on AMC4? It should be reading something like 16-17 deg. And it should be at or very near the zero point when you look for AMC3.

B.J.

I noticed that, too. But, I am very critical of the Sonic View receivers and after testing the same exact receiver that the OP is using, I had to inform him of the negative operation of this receiver first.

I honestly don't think that Joe will appreciate this receiver in the long run and I don't think he will have a happy experience trying to set up (align) the motor with this receiver.

Without reopening the case on this receiver, I will just state that I do not approve or recommend this receiver. I think it was designed and crafted for one use only and it was not FTA. I apologize if my opinion offends anyone who sells this receiver or has bought one, but I feel a strong purpose in informing my friends so that they do not make a mistake in purchasing this particular receiver.

It is either a total piece of junk or else it was designed for one specific purpose.

Sorry for being so verbal about this receiver. I just cannot stand aside and see a fellow member make a mistake and be taken advantage of.

I could pick on many other brands, too. I just happen to have one of these Sonic Views, so I know this information first hand.

I know what this receiver was designed for, and you guys and gals know it, too.

AcWxRADAR (Gordy)

 

[jotruelove]

Replies and Advise

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the input this far. I will address a few of the issues so you can know where I am coming from.

Why Sonicview? Tele-Satellite mag rated it as the best FTA for basic uses; easy to use interface, blind scan, etc. It has the added PVR functions of you want to use it. Seemed good enough. Being new I didn't want to commit to a Corvette, but a nice Impala would have suited me fine.

Reading the forums did not help a lot. As everyone knows, opinions, everyone has one. It seemed for a while that no one liked anything, and what folks did like no one committed to. Everyone was looking for that next great model (better blind scan, HD, PVR, etc.)

SO, throw a dart at a map, read a magazine that rated many different units for many different applications. My application is to be FTA, and the exploring of the world through the window of FTA. That has not changed.

AS for the "one reason and one reason only"of purchasing this unit, how is a novice to know? How many forums did I read that asked the question: What is currently the best FTA receiver for my needs? Was I aware of the hacking? Of course. I am in Information Systems. Did I care? No. I have DirecTV for HD and premium channels, and have had it for over a decade.

Why AMC4? Because according to Dishpointer, I should be looking for Nimbus 1, as it is close to true south for me. Looking around that area, I was picking up Transponder 12020 from somewhere. I researched it and found it to be AM4. According to yet another way to aim your rig, find a solid bird, peak the signal, and the rest of the arc should fall into place. But it didn't.

Thus the question to the forum. I have thus far enjoyed the many things I have learnedregarding FTA. I have not enjoyed learning, however, that the Sonicview that I put my faith in might be the center of my non-functionality. I intend to contact the seller regarding credit or a swap. I will try the suggestions mentioned for better antenna alignment, and hope for the best.

I assure you, guys and gals, my intention is to be a better citizen of the world, not a ditizen of the darkness.

And it is my intention to be a functioning and contributing member of this forum

Jim

 

[jotruelove]

But Wait There's More!

The instruction manual to the Sonicview is about worthless. The unit says it is Diseqc 1.2, but is not USALS Diseqc 1.3? There is a menu in the SV360 for USALS, and it does "bump" the dish a bit. Is it functional? I don't know.

Using Diseqc 1.2 to set X, whatever? No instructions at all. The receiver did ship with a 4:1 switch, but I don't find any way to actually talk to the dish via receiver with diseqc, other than from the "Motor" page on the disk setup screen. ANy advise or forum links on this would be great!

OK, I don't want to give up on my Sonicview, but I will if I have to. I admit, though, that I hate $130 lessons of life, not to mention 3 weeks of on and off tinkering.

Have a great weekend and a good Easter dinner.

Jim

 

[B.J.]

There isn't really a whole lot of difference between most of these FTA receivers. I think virtually every one has problems that have annoyed their users, some have bugs that only some people experience. Of the 5 STB fta receivers I've used, the absolute worst one for me was the Fortec Mercury, however other people just love that receiver. Anyway, I have no experience with the SV360, but I've read posts from people who like it, and people who don't like it.

The instruction manual to the Sonicview is about worthless. The unit says it is Diseqc 1.2, but is not USALS Diseqc 1.3? There is a menu in the SV360 for USALS, and it does "bump" the dish a bit. Is it functional? I don't know.

Using Diseqc 1.2 to set X, whatever? No instructions at all. The receiver did ship with a 4:1 switch, but I don't find any way to actually talk to the dish via receiver with diseqc, other than from the "Motor" page on the disk setup screen. ANy advise or forum links on this would be great!

Your receiver should be able to use USALS, according to the specs. USALS should be the same as DiseqC-1.3 and also the same as "GOTO-X". Sometimes if USALS doesn't work, you might have to go into the DiseqC-1.2 menu, and first disable, then set your software limits. Also, it often won't move if you have accidently entered east longitude instead of west longitude for either your location or the sat's location, and it will move backwards if you have south latitude, etc, etc, so make sure the parameters are set correctly. But from what's been said above, I see no indication that it's not working yet.

Why AMC4? Because according to Dishpointer, I should be looking for Nimbus 1, as it is close to true south for me. Looking around that area, I was picking up Transponder 12020 from somewhere. I researched it and found it to be AM4. According to yet another way to aim your rig, find a solid bird, peak the signal, and the rest of the arc should fall into place. But it didn't.

? Your longitude is 86.6 . AMC3 is 87, so it should be the true south sat. Nimiq-1 is at 91. You can use Nimiq-1, since it is stronger, and easier to find, but if you do, you must use USALS to first send the motor to that sat, before trying to peak on it. AMC-4, at 101 is pretty far away from your south sat, and I wouldn't recommend using that. Before doing anything though, I would first use the goto reference or goto zero function on the receiver to send the motor to it's zero. Then go out and make sure that the motor actually went to zero. My SG2100 was off by a couple degrees on the scale. If it's off by much, you can manually move it to zero, then do a hard reset on the motor.
After you have verified the zero, you can verify that USALS is working by sending it to a sat, then checking the angle scale on the motor to see if it went to the right place. Like I mentioned above, if you send it to AMC4, it should read 16 to 17 degrees. After verifying that it's working though, I'd just send it back to AMC3, and look for transponders on that satellite, because you really want to find a sat as close as possible to your true south, particularly if the scale on your dish isn't accurate. The angle scale on the motor should be fine, but make sure that if you're trying to set it to your latitude, that you're using the latitude scale, not the elevation scale, which is 90 minus your latitude. Also, I'd really recommend using 31.5 for the latitude setting instead of your real latitude.
Since PBS left AMC3, you might have a hard time finding signals on that sat, but the Bloomberg transponder at 11723 H / 3675 seems to be a good one to look for. You may have to manually enter that transponder, as most receivers have obsolete transponder lists.

Anyway, I wouldn't try finding other sats until you find AMC3, or if you can't find AMC3, you CAN use Nimiq-!, but make sure you use USALS to motor to it first.

 

[andyb2]

If your zero point is now at amc 4 your way off track.Try amc 3 and edit your transponder 11736 to 8333 V 2/3 that one is pretty strong.The 360 series blind scan is not very good but it "works" to a certain point.I have the elite and its ok.Just need to know when people post transponders I usually need to drop down a bit on the frequency before the box will see anything.A learning curve for sure but it has a not bad picture and dual tuners so I can live with it.

 

[AcWxRadar]

The instruction manual to the Sonicview is about worthless. The unit says it is Diseqc 1.2, but is not USALS Diseqc 1.3? There is a menu in the SV360 for USALS, and it does "bump" the dish a bit. Is it functional? I don't know.

Using Diseqc 1.2 to set X, whatever? No instructions at all. The receiver did ship with a 4:1 switch, but I don't find any way to actually talk to the dish via receiver with diseqc, other than from the "Motor" page on the disk setup screen. ANy advise or forum links on this would be great!

OK, I don't want to give up on my Sonicview, but I will if I have to. I admit, though, that I hate $130 lessons of life, not to mention 3 weeks of on and off tinkering.

Have a great weekend and a good Easter dinner.

Jim

Jim,

You can get this Sonic View to work. It just takes a little more work on your behalf.

After playing with mine a little bit I did find that after locating two or three sats manually using DiSEqC 1.2, the USALS function seemed to become more functional (more accurate at least). My brother found the same results.

If you work with it long enough, you can get it to operate fairly well.

It is the USALS function that I question the most. If you can overcome this, it will work fairly well. I wanted to forewarn you of this so that you didn't go scratching your head. It will leave you with some confusion, but if you know this ahead of time, you can take some steps to prepare yourself for these odd results.

My SV 360 Premier is still in use, my brother has it. If you need assistance he and I will help you if you need. Look for Walrus1957.

Make sure that you read B.J.'s post above as he has some really good information that applies to your situation.

I do wish you luck Jim,

Gordy (AcWxRADAR)

 

[jotruelove]

Easter Aligning the Dish

Thanks for the great advice all. I will heed all of it, and in the next few day maybe I to will have a success story to tell.

I'm not giving up. And with a great group backing me up, I am certain I'll be online soon.

At least now I have hope!

Sincerest regards,

Jim

 

[jotruelove]

Bloomberg Lock

OK, as per advise, I found and locked down on AM3 at 87 degrees. I was able to grab the Bloomberg signal, as well as skew around to other birds and get some pretty good channel selection.

My question now is regarding signal quality. The bloomberg signal lockes in at about 77 strength and about 30 quality. I have done just about everything possible to peak the signal, but this seems to be about it

Is this OK for this bird? It was mentioned that the signal may or may not be suitable.

Thanks for the continued support. We're almost there...

Jim

 

[turbosat]

Jim we must be on about the same longitude>have you tried finding AMC16 at 85W? If its not in your satellite list, manually enter it. (might be called AMC2 @85W, old name) . Once you have it, manually enter this test channel -12183H SR 3978, can't give you the pids right now but they should be avail on The List here, top of page. Just a slight movement east from AMC3 and you should hit it, if you're tracking is close. Color bars and they're pretty strong signal, will help you work out the tracking adjustments. If you can get it, then start working further out from the "center" of your arc, to AMC9, Gal28 ,etc. WAtch signal levels, if they start to drop off the further from center (AMC3) you go, then you know you still have work to do, to get the tracking correct. I just spent about 4 days doing this for the first time, very frustrating at first.

 

[jotruelove]

Signal/Quality Strength?

Hi Turbo...

Thanks for the advice. I will follow through today.

Might you share with me what signal/quality I might expect to see? I have read (and in this thread) that Sonic View might not give me solid numbers.

Interestingly, in order to get any quality and arc tracking, I had to aim the antenna higher off the motor than I thought I might. I can't explain this. But from my "trus south" dish (87) I seem to be following the arch (as least as far as I have so far been willing to try), and getting 30 to 60 quality where ever I point. I find that "tweeking" the dish might or might not help the signal.

As I made the system purchase as a newbie, I have to now question everything. The antenna and LNB we bought from a site off ebay (33 inch with Standard LNB). The antenna mounts and screws already begin to show rust, as do the screws that hold the LNB in place. There is no name on the disk, nor was there one on the box. I believe if I want to grow some rust, all I have to do is scrape the dish a little, and the rust will come. Cound I have basic reflectivity issues?

Thanks Trubo and thanks all...

Jim

PS: Even the girl was impressed at all the channels at 97. IT was like a window on the world!

 

[ratio]

I know how you feel

As I made the system purchase as a newbie, I have to now question everything.


I'm a newbie and I bought everything brand new! After about 2 weeks of trying, my USALS doesnt seem to work or my motor is gone nuts. I'm questioning everything too!

Oh I have a sonic view elite by the way

 

[jotruelove]

Newbie Pain

Hi Ratio,

Welcome to the site, and to the club, and to this thread. If you have read it all the way through (with a cup of coffee) you will note how I came to purchase my new SonicView Premier (same as yours I believe without the dual tuners). The guys were so against this particular brand that I felt the need to justify it. Not a good start to my new FTA hobby...

I admit my $300 invested in gear, cement, poles, compasses, etc have taught me a lot, but as was mentioned above, the gurus of the site hate it when us newbies are given a the run around when entering this realm. I have not really "worked" on it as much as as I have "tinkered" with it.

How goes your install? I think I am close. What it took was this:

1) listen to theses guys on the site, much of wisdom they are
2) do set the rig up outside so you can see the effects of your touch on the system
3) premix a blender of Marguritas to help you through the endless adjustment
4) Be patient. Aparently, we are not the ony ones to have walked down this road.

For fun, I am going to place an ad on craigslist for other FTA receivers. Maybe I can find one at a bargin to compare with my Sonic View. I want to believe in this thing (Sonicview), but...

Good luck!

 

[B.J.]

...
Might you share with me what signal/quality I might expect to see? I have read (and in this thread) that Sonic View might not give me solid numbers.

Interestingly, in order to get any quality and arc tracking, I had to aim the antenna higher off the motor than I thought I might. I can't explain this. But from my "trus south" dish (87) I seem to be following the arch (as least as far as I have so far been willing to try), and getting 30 to 60 quality where ever I point. I find that "tweeking" the dish might or might not help the signal.

....

Don't necessarily be concerned about the S/Q readings. One receiver might give S/Q in the 90s and another on the same signal might read in the 20s, both giving the same actual reception. I even had one receiver which nearly doubled the S/Q readings when I upgraded the firmware. Made no difference at all in what I could receive, just that the numbers were different. Also, if you're on the edge of the footprints (Florida) with a smallish (33") dish, you don't expect the same S/Q that someone with a bigger dish in the middle of the footprint might expect. Also, different transponders on the same sat will give different S/Q.
Also, different lnbs or lnbfs can give different results for S/Q . Sometimes cheaper lnbs have more gain but more noise than higher quality lnbs, so that the cheapers ones sometimes appear to be giving better signal, but they're also giving you more noise. Usually you'd expect to see this reflected in the quality figure, but different receivers seem to calculate this in different ways, so it's not always obvious.

Anyway, as long as you're locking transponders, I wouldn't worry about S/Q unless you observe S/Q getting better when you lift/pull down the dish slowly. I usually use a TIVO for this, ie I put the receiver on a menu with S/Q readings, then go out to the dish, and move the dish slowly around in different directions by hand, small amounts up/down/left/right, holding at each point for a few seconds because the S/Q meters on receivers generally have slow response. Then I go back inside, and back up the TIVO, and replay the results. If I only see the signal getting worse, then I know that things are as good as I can get them with my hardware.

 

[jotruelove]

LNB

I believe I fit in your High Gain/High Noise catagory. The Standard LNB (Digiwave DGL-03S) that came with my dish is a 60 db gain, .3db noise, and can be had for the amazing price of about $8.99.

It was part of the "FTA Antenna Kit".

Do you recommend a better standard or standard/universal combo LNB?

Thanks!