Some questions about DirecTV vs. DISH Network

[Minto Took]

TiVo doesn't care where your TiVo is located as they don't provide any local programming. In order not to run afoul of FCC regulations, D* and E* must know with relative certainty that your receivers are located in your home. Both company's flagship receivers have Ethernet capability (and D* is even using theirs in a limited fashion)

And when you factor in the relative ease users can spoof their IP addresses, it really isn't a viable alternative to a land line.

The big problem I see is that with people my age who are in or just graduating from college, they grew up--more or less--with cell phones. So its not like they will sign up for what they believe to be an antiquated phone service just to get satellite TV. *


* I'm well aware now that users don't need a phone line for service, but you guys should know what I mean.

 

[Minto Took]

So I went and bit the bullet today and I have a DirecTV installation appointment later this month. The CSR told me on the phone that D* would install what is basically a dry-loop phone line to the back of my DVR. How would this dry-loop affect my chances of "moving" for Indy locals?

 

[jcrandall]

Never heard of a dry loop phone line - might mean they will leave it unplugged

Should have NO effect on your ability to 'move'. That just depends on your ability to convience a CSR that your service address is different and the dish is conviently already there and already the right type (slimline).

 

[Minto Took]

Never heard of a dry loop phone line - might mean they will leave it unplugged

Should have NO effect on your ability to 'move'. That just depends on your ability to convience a CSR that your service address is different and the dish is conviently already there and already the right type (slimline).

The CSR said that I would be able to order PPV with my remote even without a land line. *shrugs*

Also, I'm getting a 3-LNB dish since I just have a SDTV. But spotbeam maps show that I shouldn't have problems getting Indy locals anyway (hopefully).

 

[Minto Took]

Since I've gone and ordered D* now, all I hope for is someone to tell me I didn't do something stupid and that I'll enjoy the service.

 

[Minsk1]

Since I've gone and ordered D* now, all I hope for is someone to tell me I didn't do something stupid and that I'll enjoy the service.

As for me, I think it is 50 - 50 as of now. I have Dish now, but sitting on the fence and ready to move, if D* will deliver more/or better HD service then Dish. Also looking for the provider, who will add FOX Sports Wisconsin.
But if you need Sunday Ticket (I don't, covered by local OTA HD, Espn HD, NFL HD, enough for me), then you made a perfect choice right now.

 

[FlyingJ]

You didn't do something stupid. You will enjoy the service.

 

[harshness]

The CSR told me on the phone that D* would install what is basically a dry-loop phone line to the back of my DVR. How would this dry-loop affect my chances of "moving" for Indy locals?

A "dry loop" phone line is one with no POTS voice services. Essentially, you were being told that they would hook it up to a phone jack even if there was no dialtone. This is actually a bad thing if you have DSL.

Having the receiver connected to a POTS landline will complicate "moving" as landline numbers aren't very portable (and is why they use them, after all).

 

[dishrich]

Having the receiver connected to a POTS landline will complicate "moving" as landline numbers aren't very portable (and is why they use them, after all).

Where did you get this idea from? Landline numbers are VERY portable now - you have heard of VOIP service, right? In most areas, you CAN port your current landline number over to a VOIP provider (Vonage, Packet 8, etc) & even over to a cell phone. Once you port over your landline to VOIP, you can literally take it ANYWHERE you have a broadband connection - so that kills that theory of "moving".

The ONLY reason why D* (& E*) use landlines, is because when DBS started, that was the ONLY practical way for the receivers to communicate back to headquarters, as well as that pretty much everyone has one in their house. Unfortunately, both DBS providers have their heads stuck up their a$$'s & haven't come to grips that the world is changing & landlines are going the way of black & white TV's.

And anyway, using your "regular" landline does NOT complicate moving anyway - I know many "moved" folks (& not just on this board) as well as myself, that moved & have kept using their same landline for years with no issues whatsoever. As long as the phone# on the account matches what the receiver(s) call in from, that's all that really matters.

 

[harshness]

Where did you get this idea from? Landline numbers are VERY portable now - you have heard of VOIP service, right?

I've also heard that many VOIP services don't support data modems. The issue is that a telephone number is typically assigned to a exchange and if you move out of that exchange, you have to surrender the number. Obviously, with VOIP, you can keep the number, but if it doesn't support a modem, what's the point?

Unfortunately, both DBS providers have their heads stuck up their a$$'s & haven't come to grips that the world is changing & landlines are going the way of black & white TV's.

Do you have a bulletproof recommendation for what they should be using in lieu of a land line to verify that your receiver is connected to your residence phone? As the E* prohibition on DNS illustrates, making sure that the subscriber gets only the programming that they're entitled to is critical.

 

[dishrich]

I've also heard that many VOIP services don't support data modems. The issue is that a telephone number is typically assigned to a exchange and if you move out of that exchange, you have to surrender the number. Obviously, with VOIP, you can keep the number, but if it doesn't support a modem, what's the point?

Go back on this board & do a search on this & you'll find many folks who HAVE made their receivers work on VOIP & you'll see my point...

Do you have a bulletproof recommendation for what they should be using in lieu of a land line to verify that your receiver is connected to your residence phone? As the E* prohibition on DNS illustrates, making sure that the subscriber gets only the programming that they're entitled to is critical.

Why/where DO you keep getting this idea the phone line allows/disallows entitled prog? The "entitled" prog is authorized over the sat & has absolutely NOTHING to do with a phone line. (hint: so are you telling me all of these customers that already DON'T have a landline are getting prog they shouldn't - or are NOT getting prog they SHOULD?) By using your logic, I should NOT be able to get OOM network prog from another DMA - as I've already told you, it's NOT been a problem for myself or other clients for years now. The DNS "mess" that E* created had NOTHING to do with phone lines, but the fact E* choose to sell DNS to unqualified customers.
As far as sports packages, again, while D* may say in it's brochures a phone is required, I can tell you that again, I have several clients w/out phone lines & they get ALL of their sports pkgs just fine, thank you.

The ONLY thing the phone line does is:
-allows remote control PPV ordering; many people including myself, could care less about this. Also, D* allows PPV ordering over the net at NO extra cost, while E* does, but charges an extra fee - so obviously, that problem is solved.

-prevent account stacking - VERY simple to fix; both providers need to start building circuitry in EVERY new box to allow intercommunication between all of the boxes on an account. (preferably through the coax, but could be done via an ethernet connection) This would NOT even require a phone line, as it can very easily be made so that if a receiver was NOT communicating back to the other units, (such as one of them moved to another house) it shuts down. This would actually be MORE reliable than using a phone connection, since it's also possible to spoof a phone # in multiple places.

As I said, the providers should have already started this years ago, but choose not to, although their have been reports they are starting to surface in newer boxes. Unfortunately, they are all vaporware right now...

 

[harshness]

Why/where DO you keep getting this idea the phone line allows/disallows entitled prog?

Your not listening. I said that the DBS carriers have a vested interest (two actually) in knowing that your receivers are operating at your address of record. The required land line connection is the best method there is to do that.

Reason 1: The DBS companies are not allowed to deliver out-of-market locals without waivers (this one carries some hefty penalties).

Reason 2: They want to know that you're not using your receiver(s) outside your residence (this one represents substantial lost revenues).


E* has a feature on their ViP622 called DishComm that enables communications between receivers, but one of them must still be connected to a land line. Knowing that all of the receivers are together is half the battle, but knowing where they are is no less important.

 

[Minto Took]

I figured a good and cheap way to get past the land line issue if one arises is add a dial-able phone number to my Skype account which is ~$8/mo to dial in and out.

 

[dishrich]

Your not listening. I said that the DBS carriers have a vested interest (two actually) in knowing that your receivers are operating at your address of record. The required land line connection is the best method there is to do that.

No, I listened VERY carefully to what YOU asked, which was:

Do you have a bulletproof recommendation for what they should be using in lieu of a land line to verify that your receiver is connected to your residence phone? As the E* prohibition on DNS illustrates, making sure that the subscriber gets only the programming that they're entitled to is critical.

And I answered your question like this:

Why/where DO you keep getting this idea the phone line allows/disallows entitled prog? The "entitled" prog is authorized over the sat & has absolutely NOTHING to do with a phone line.

And instead of answering my question, you just keep regurgitating "the landline is the best way to do it..."

And since your (still) not listening - please tell me exactly HOW (in technical terms) having a landline tells the carrier "my service is at a specific address" - as opposed to my friend's, neighbor's, parent's house, etc.? How DO they know WHERE my phone# is - they sure cannot ask the phone co! As I am going to repeat for the last time, a landline does NO such thing - PERIOD! Just because you keep saying it does, or your D* or E* trainer tells you it does, doesn't mean it's true. (you sound like a new DBS CSR that's reading out of their new training manual - don't believe everything that they tell you )
I've also already told you if you would do a search on this board, (being that you are a relative newbie here) you'll see MANY examples of folks such as me that have moved & continue to use our very SAME landline# with NO issues. There's a good reason why it works & I've just explained it to you. (again) You might actually learn something doing a search...

Reason 1: The DBS companies are not allowed to deliver out-of-market locals without waivers (this one carries some hefty penalties).

And please find ONE single requirement in either providers DNS requirements that you MUST have a landline for DNS service & post them here - even if you're a one receiver DNS customer. I've been doing satellite since the big dishes & have NEVER seen such a requirement. What does DNS have anything to do with landlines anyway??? (& yea, I know all about DNS - since I AM a dealer...)

Reason 2: They want to know that you're not using your receiver(s) outside your residence (this one represents substantial lost revenues).

How (prey tell) does having ALL my receivers at a place different from where the physical location is supposed to be making the carrier loose revenue? I would be paying EXACTLY the same amount whether I was in Chicago, St.Louis or Springfield - please make some sense here. Again, if you are talking about account stacking, then yes it will stop that, but otherwise it ain't gonna help stop movers - not to mention the fact movers are NOT loosing revenue for either E* or D*, but actually in most cases MAKE money for them, since most movers "move" to be able to get local nets AT ALL, since there are still many markets that do not have locals at all. (Hmm, is it sinking in why both providers "look the other way" when people move... )

E* has a feature on their ViP622 called DishComm that enables communications between receivers, but one of them must still be connected to a land line. Knowing that all of the receivers are together is half the battle, but knowing where they are is no less important.

And (again) for the last time - a phone connection is NOT going to solve the "location" problem even with DishComm - only that ALL receivers on an account are in the same loc.

I'm done with this, as you just don't want to accept reality - you can stay in fantasy land & the rest of us will get back to the OP's subject at hand, which BTW...

 

[dishrich]

Since I've gone and ordered D* now, all I hope for is someone to tell me I didn't do something stupid and that I'll enjoy the service.

OK, since (I don't believe) anyone answered your question at hand, don't worry about moving & using your existing landline. (contrary to what some people keep going on about) Just get it all installed, wait a couple days & then "move" your account to Indy, just like you did with DISH. (you've done it before & it's no different with D*) Just tell them your phone# will stay the same on your account - you should be off the phone with them in under 3 min...

Oh, & enjoy your new service...