Signal strength

[twillers]

Signal strength... 311 S/W update solved my problem

In march I was upgraded to Dish 500. I have a 2 receiver setup. (2700, 311 )
The signal strength for 110 was only 49-55 on transponders 11 & 12, & spotbeam transponders 4 & 6 read 80-90. Sat 119 read 109-114 on transponder 11 & 12, and 122-125 for the 1 & 3 spotbeam transponders. Sys info always showed green for 119 & 110 on the 311. Unless it was raining I almost never lost signal. Dish set at A246, E27, S127.
There is a 70'/80' oak tree about 75' away from the dish. The dish is mounted 18' off the ground. The dish is pointing at about the center of the tree, from left to right. The tree is about 30' across. Now that the leaves are coming out, the signal on 110 comes and goes. Now the signal strength on 110 is 40-46 on 11 & 12, and spotbeams 4 & 6 are 75-80. Sat 119 hasn't changed. When I had the Dish 300 the setup it was pointed at A251, E24, for sat 119, and if I had 110, it would have been A242, E30
If I had to take a stab at it, I think it would be safe to assume the tree is interfering with the 110 signal. What I don't understand is why the spotbeam signal really isn't being affected by the tree, and why there is such a big difference between signal strengths of the two different types of transponders for sat 110? If the spotbeam transponders(4,6) were the ones being used in my area, (metro NY) the tree wouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately that's not the case.
What I am trying to avoid is having to install a second dish for 110. Luckily the installer left me my old dish, a couple of used dual LNBs', a new mounting bracket, and a couple of used sw21s', just in case. Assuming everything he gave me is in working condition, all I need is cable, and the time to install it.

 

[evancono29]

it could be your skew is not set right check you what your reciever says it should be menu 6-1-1 peak angles type in your area code ex 66666 select dish 500 it should say your skew then check if your skew is set right if it is its the tree good luck!

 

[chevyN8]

I'd try to find a better location for the dish 500 if the skew is OK. Your dish 500 is probably dishpro, which isn't compatible with the old equipment (legacy lnb's/sw21).

 

[RandallA]

twillers,

Have you tried adjusting the Azimuth and Elevation? Just give it a little push without removing the bolts and see if your signal levels improve.

Echostar 6 is at 110.15W and Echostar 8 is at 109.95W according to Lyngsat. You want E8, so try moving it a notch to the East and see if that helps.

Looks like the tree is affecting some of the transponders for 110. Any chance to relocate the dish?

 

[joshschuler]

the reason you're dropping 110 and not 119 with the dish pointed directly over the tree is that the dish "winks" left of 110, and 119 is 14 degrees right of where the dish looks like it's pointed.

 

[joshschuler]

i'd say move the dish right of the tree from where it's pointed now, or try and come back further from the tree with your dish

 

[msarback]

you will be able to tell if it is trees if it is windy and you check your signal screen and it is fluctuating quite a bit

 

[joshschuler]

you will be able to tell if it is trees if it is windy and you check your signal screen and it is fluctuating quite a bit

depends on the size of the tree. If it's a huge tree, it might not make a difference with the wind blowin'

 

[twillers]

it could be your skew is not set right check you what your reciever says it should be menu 6-1-1 peak angles type in your area code ex 66666 select dish 500 it should say your skew then check if your skew is set right if it is its the tree good luck!

It was originally off by 2 degrees. Supposed to 127 and it was 125. Changed it to 127, but the signal didn't change.

I'd try to find a better location for the dish 500 if the skew is OK. Your dish 500 is probably dishpro, which isn't compatible with the old equipment (legacy lnb's/sw21).

Open area is very limited using the dish 500. If I were to mount the dish 300 on the opposite side of the chimney (to the left of dish 500), it would be moved about 3'. I think that might be enough. azimuth for 110 is 242, and 251 for 119. I have legacy LNBs not dishpro.

twillers,
Have you tried adjusting the Azimuth and Elevation? Just give it a little push without removing the bolts and see if your signal levels improve.
Echostar 6 is at 110.15W and Echostar 8 is at 109.95W according to Lyngsat. You want E8, so try moving it a notch to the East and see if that helps.
Looks like the tree is affecting some of the transponders for 110. Any chance to relocate the dish?

Hi Randall,
Check out http://ekb.dbstalk.com/282 . If I read the list right, E*6 is what I need about 70%. Almost all the PPV channels use E*6. E*8 is used for one of my showtime channels. (have AT60) I did try moving dish a couple of degrees in either direction. 110 signal was either 45+/- or no signal.

i'd say move the dish right of the tree from where it's pointed now, or try and come back further from the tree with your dish

I think the dish would have to be moved to the left. 242 degrees azimuth is where 110 is located. Dish 500 is pointed at 246 degrees. Moving it back could work if I could calculate how far it had to go.
I never took trigonometry to figure it out. If sat 110 is at 242 and 119 is at 251, that's 9 degrees between them. The tree is 75' away. How wide would the angle be at 75'?

 

[RandallA]

twillers,

I found this:

"To clear X feet of vertical height, you need (X / tan(elevation)) feet of horizontal separation.

For example, the tangent of 24 degrees is about 0.445. Therefore, to clear 50 feet of trees with a 24-degree elevation, you'd need to be (50 / 0.445) or over 112 feet away from the tree, measuring horizontally."

So in your case, the tangent of 27 degrees is .5095. To clear 70 feet (70 / 0.5095) = 137 feet away from the tree.
You said the dish is 18 ft. high so you need to clear 52 feet. (52 / .5095) = 102 ft to clear the trees.


Edited: The previous formula was wrong.

 

[twillers]

twillers,
I found this:
"To clear X feet of vertical height, you need (X / tan(elevation)) feet of horizontal separation.
For example, the tangent of 24 degrees is about 0.445. Therefore, to clear 50 feet of trees with a 24-degree elevation, you'd need to be (50 / 0.445) or over 112 feet away from the tree, measuring horizontally."
So in your case, the tangent of 27 degrees is .5095. To clear 70 feet (70 / 0.5095) = 137 feet away from the tree.
You said the dish is 18 ft. high so you need to clear 52 feet. (52 / .5095) = 102 ft to clear the trees.
Edited: The previous formula was wrong.

Thanks Randall,
that answers the question about moving the dish back. It ain't gonna happen unless my neighbor lets me mount the dish on their roof. Moving the dish 500 isn't going to be an option. I think the open area I have is large enough accommodate the second dish moving it to the left of the 500. Using the Azimuth table for the 300, it shows the 110 & 119 are 9 degrees apart. Using what you showed me: at a distance 75' from the dish, the distance across the 9 degree angle is about 13', and the tree is about 30'. The fact that I get good signal strength from 119 leads me to believe the 110 signal is trying to come right thru center of the tree. Now the question is how far do I have to move it to get a good signal. The Azimuth changes from 246 degrees to 242 degrees. All of this is assuming its the center of the dish (left to right) that needs to point at the satellite.

 

[RandallA]

If you use the Dish300 for 110, your elevation angle is 30. Using the same formula you would need 90 ft to clear that tree. So I guess that ain't happening.
Moving the Dish300 as far to the left as possible is your only option. How far? It all depends how wide that tree is. I would just move it as far to the left as possible and see what you get.

 

[joshschuler]

remember though. 119 is working. Why? Because it's coming from the right of the tree, If you move your Dish 500 to the left, your 119 is going to be blocked. Also, 119 comes in lower, so it's going to be easier to lose than your 110. Move the dish to the right.

 

[VOOMER]

try this one

twillers look at this one and see if it helps any !

http://www.bjup.com/services/bjhomesat/tech_support/obstacle.html ??

 

[RandallA]

remember though. 119 is working. Why? Because it's coming from the right of the tree, If you move your Dish 500 to the left, your 119 is going to be blocked. Also, 119 comes in lower, so it's going to be easier to lose than your 110. Move the dish to the right.

He is using a Dish300 for 110. I think he's leaving the Dish500 alone. Your suggestion of moving the Dish500 to the right is another good option if he can move it to the right.

VOOMER,

Nice link, it makes it a lot easier than a scientific calculator.

 

[VOOMER]

Yeah let the software do the thinking !

Much easier , always like to save stuff like that.

 

[joshschuler]

He is using a Dish300 for 110. I think he's leaving the Dish500 alone. Your suggestion of moving the Dish500 to the right is another good option if he can move it to the right. QUOTE]


what's the 300 dish for? Not 61.5 or 148??? Yeah, moving the 300 dish far left should do it.

 

[twillers]

If you use the Dish300 for 110, your elevation angle is 30. Using the same formula you would need 90 ft to clear that tree. So I guess that ain't happening.
Moving the Dish300 as far to the left as possible is your only option. How far? It all depends how wide that tree is. I would just move it as far to the left as possible and see what you get.

Randall ,
You're right, moving the dish300 to the left is my only option. As to how far. The minimum I need to move it is the distance from were it's pointing now to the edge of the left side of the tree, or 17'-18'. There is a second chimney that is far enough away that might be a good mounting spot. The problem is, it's at the end of the house, so only about 18" sticks above the roof line. It actually might be to high, due to another overhanging branch from a different tree. Won't be able to tell until I put a ladder up to check it out. There are other spots to mount the dish, but all of them are on the opposite end of the house. They are further from the 500, and where the cables enter the house.

It is amazing to see the decline in signal strength from day to day. The reason being the problem oak tree. The leaves are not fully developed yet, and with the weather we've been having it's taken about a week for them to get this far. I figure a couple more warm days for them to finnish. Using the point dish screen for 110, I was getting reading for all of the transponders before the leaves started. Now most of them have no signal at all. The 2 spotbeams still read between 60 and 75. Transponder 21 still has a reading of 43-46. That one is used by Showtime channel 321, and I still get a picture on that channel 60%-70% of the time. Transponder 11 is used for ST channel 323, and that one is dead. What I think needs to be done is, turn all transponder into spotbeams. That would make the problem go away. LOL

Voomer,
thanks for that website. That definitely makes it easier.

joshschuler,
Moving the Dish500 in any direction isn't going to be an option The second dish is the only way to go, moving it to the left.

 

[garee]

Think outside the box.

Wouldn't a chainsaw be an easier solution?

 

[twillers]

The latest software update was installed on my 311 last night. For some reason all the program guide listings for satellite 110 PPV, and the 2 showtime listings were gone from all the lists. Info had an X where the 119 & 110 would have been listed, and it said to run a check switch. Going to the point dish screen, 119 showed 112+ on all transponders and 110 showed no signal or wrong satellite 112 in red. After I ran check switch, only 119 showed. I unplugged the receiver for 5 min., and then I ran check switch again. This time 119 showed, plus 110 odd, and it said to check connections. Running it a second time, only 119 showed and then another screen popped up saying "searching for available satellites". Sat 119 still was 112+ & no sat 110. My other receiver still showed both satellites when you went to point dish.
I called Dish out of frustration at that point. I was very surprised at how they handled the problem. I told the CSR the problem seemed to start after the S/W update, and it didn't seem to affect the other receiver. I did tell her about the tree and the week signal on 110. She had me try a bunch of things on the 311, then asked me to check a few more on the 2700. At that point I was put on hold for a few minutes. When she came back she asked if I had the installers phone number. When I told her Dish was the one who set it up, I was put on hold again. When she came back I was told they were going to send someone to check it out. This is the part I couldn't believe. She said "the service call is usually $99.00, but they were waiving the fee in this case". I think the reason it was waived was because the dish 500 was installed less then 3 months ago, and that might be causing the problem. Whatever the reason. I take back "almost" everything bad I ever said about Dish. If it wasn't for the software update I never would have called Dish in the first place. I figured the signal problem was mine.