Signal Loss

[wvman]

I, too, live in the country and have power issues. Mainly brownouts and blackouts. I have UPS systems with AVR on all of my electronics to try and isolate myself from the power issues.

I have UPS's on everything. I have to. The power usually isn't off for more than a few seconds, but it may go off and on two or three times. Hard as hell on electronics as you know. I even have a line conditioner on my satellite and TV's to clean up the power. Pain in the butt to put up with that crap.

 

[comfortably_numb]

I have UPS's on everything. I have to. The power usually isn't off for more than a few seconds, but it may go off and on two or three times. Hard as hell on electronics as you know. I even have a line conditioner on my satellite and TV's to clean up the power. Pain in the butt to put up with that crap.

As we say, "that's the price we pay to live in paradise!"

 

[wvman]

As we say, "that's the price we pay to live in paradise!"

True!

 

[waylew]

I bonded all 8 of my dishes together and ran a ground to the service entrance to balance the grounds. It didn't help, but we have extremely poor electric service out here in the country. A couple years ago during deer season, I walked the power company's right of way and I found over a half mile of primary ground wire lying on the ground below the power poles.

The whole power system lacked a ground and the system depended on a single ground at the transformer and entrance to ground everything. I raised hell for 2 years and to this day, the ground cables are still laying in the right of way. The last serious snow storm we had broke down trees across the power lines and snapped off poles. Instead of replacing the poles in some areas, they actually installed insulators in nearby trees and tied the 8300 volt primary line to them.

Some are still tied to trees even today.

SHOCKING ! sorry,had to be said

 

[wvman]

SHOCKING ! sorry,had to be said

It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it.

 

[a33]

BTW
I'm still curious to the answer of my questions in #14, to investigate the switch-reset possibility.
Any chance to that?

Greetz,
A33

 

[wvman]

Well, something is wrong in the receiver - switch - LNB combination, and it is puzzling indeed!

I'm wondering: Is there power on the switch port, while the receiver has no reception? Or has the power been 'reset' to port 1 of the switch?


To check this possible 'switch reset' possibility further:

What happens when you switch the 'other' receiver off again: Is the signal lost
a) immediately
b) after switching to another channel at 91W
c) after switching to another satellite, and then back to 91W
d) only after total poweroff ?


Greetz,
A33

Sorry, I somehow missed your question. It varies. If the wife is in the other room and I'm watching, or recording something in the living room, and she changes channels, it may, or may not lose the signal. If she's watching a channel (Light TV) on Galaxy 17 and I go to the same satellite, she will lose the signal completely on her receiver, but only on that satellite. She can watch a different channel on another satellite, but I may lose signal for a few seconds on my receiver while she switches channels.

Sometimes, it doesn't act up at all. There's really no predictable pattern to it.

 

[a33]

So, it is not just her losing signal unless you are also on 91W, but sometimes also her losing signal when you switch to 91W.
That doesn't look like the diseqc switch reset occurings about which I read.

Just another question:
In my home (in the Netherlands) I noticed with the modern switching power supplies of receivers and televisions that sometimes there is a difference in voltage between 'ground' of the device and the 'real earth' of my 220V power supply, depending on if I changed 'polarity' of the 220V plug.
Of course, that is no 'real' voltage but just some capacitative effect, but it does make a difference.
I tested the voltage everytime, of course, with no other devices connected. And ended, of course, with the lowest voltage, before I connected all the devices with each other again.

Could something like that have an effect in your case?

greetz,
A33

 

[Titanium]

This has been an issue for years with multiple satellite receivers sharing a multiple output LNBF. Sometimes it only affects specific frequencies (transponders) on a satellite and other times it will take out the entire frequency range on one or both of the outputs. As A33 points out typically this is due to a voltage present on ground and is often found in multi-family units sharing a single satellite dish. It could also be the result of a voltage potential between multiple dishes and / or AC outlets.

You might to resolve by passing all signals through a single powered switch, changing to a different power supply, reversing the AC plug (if not polarized), changing one STB to a receiver to a different model, bonding all dishes to a common ground, placing a ferrite clip-on torroid on AC and DC power cords, etc.

You might also test by powering both STBS/TVs from a single power source.

 

[danristheman]

Brian would my type setup help him. I use 4 external zinwell powered multiswitches into 3 diesqe switches going to 3 rooms. I have 8 dual output lnbs.

 

[Titanium]

The less switches, the better. More coax runs, but less attenuation, switching errors and less chance of interaction than with cascading.

Spaun and Triax make great configurable powered 22KHz / DiSEqC 1.0/1.1 and even some support 1.2 switching.

 

[a33]

So, has it been tested and confirmed that the 'confused' part in cases like this is indeed the diseqc switch? That, in fact, the aimed-to LNB port of the switch has no power anymore?

I know of switch resets (switching to default port) by inrush-current, and too small capacity power stabilization at the switching IC in the diseqc switch.
I've also read about 22kHz interference by ground loops. Don't know if the quality of the switch can 'ignore' this interference?

I once had a ground loop in audio cables. I 'solved' that by 'closing' the loop: running the cables side by side, instead of in a loop.

Greetz,
A33

 

[wvman]

This has been an issue for years with multiple satellite receivers sharing a multiple output LNBF. Sometimes it only affects specific frequencies (transponders) on a satellite and other times it will take out the entire frequency range on one or both of the outputs. As A33 points out typically this is due to a voltage present on ground and is often found in multi-family units sharing a single satellite dish. It could also be the result of a voltage potential between multiple dishes and / or AC outlets.

You might to resolve by passing all signals through a single powered switch, changing to a different power supply, reversing the AC plug (if not polarized), changing one STB to a receiver to a different model, bonding all dishes to a common ground, placing a ferrite clip-on torroid on AC and DC power cords, etc.

You might also test by powering both STBS/TVs from a single power source.

The grounds on the power company's electric system are terrible, or in some cases, non-existent. I've complained numerous times and it always falls on deaf ears. I have all 8 dishes bonded together and even ran a new drop to the room with the 2nd receiver so both would share the same circuit. If there's a voltage present on the grounds, I haven't been able to detect it.

I have a total of 2 8-way switches, which are also bonded together and hooked to the same ground. I have had no luck getting the power company to check out their transformer. An electrical engineer I know came out and scoped the power and found all sorts of noise on the main power line, which was expected. I also have a commercial line conditioner that cleans up the power to the house.

Under certain conditions, the 2nd receiver will lose signal on every channel on a satellite until the main receiver switches off that satellite. Sometimes it doesn't do it at all. So far, I've had no equipment failures, but it's a bit annoying to say the least.

 

[wvman]

So, has it been tested and confirmed that the 'confused' part in cases like this is indeed the diseqc switch? That, in fact, the aimed-to LNB port of the switch has no power anymore?

I know of switch resets (switching to default port) by inrush-current, and too small capacity power stabilization at the switching IC in the diseqc switch.
I've also read about 22kHz interference by ground loops. Don't know if the quality of the switch can 'ignore' this interference?

I once had a ground loop in audio cables. I 'solved' that by 'closing' the loop: running the cables side by side, instead of in a loop.

Greetz,
A33

None of my cables are looped, all are home runs straight from the dish to the switch. I learned my lesson years ago about creating loops. All 16 cables are run side by side and bundled together the entire length of the runs. All are high quality ComScope Quad Shield cable. Right now, they are attached to my chain link fence, but soon, they will be ran underground in electrical conduit.

My trencher is in the shop at the minute, but as soon as I get it back, that will happen.

 

[a33]

Here in the Netherlands, every house has a ground pin in the ground (obligatory). That is not the case in the States of America?

Under certain conditions, the 2nd receiver will lose signal on every channel on a satellite until the main receiver switches off that satellite.

In that case, does the switch port of the LNB carry power (tested under 'live' conditions)?

greetz,
A33

 

[wvman]

Here in the Netherlands, every house has a ground pin in the ground (obligatory). That is not the case in the States of America?


In that case, does the switch port of the LNB carry power (tested under 'live' conditions)?

greetz,
A33

Yes, but only when the receiver is tuned to a channel on that port. I'm not using a 22khz tone, so each port goes dead when the receiver is tuned to a different satellite. I have an 8 foot solid copper rod driven into the ground and attached to the meter box where the power enters the house.

 

[a33]

Yes, but only when the receiver is tuned to a channel on that port.

Do I understand right: even when the signal on a satellite is lost, the port of the switch still carries a voltage?
So the problem arises in the LNB?

Greetz,
A33

 

[Titanium]

Check the selected port voltage at the LNBF next time this problem happens.

Is there voltage on this port? If so, what is the voltage reading? At the same time, check the voltage at the LNBF port selected by the primary receiver. What is the voltage reading?

Are these powered or passive switches? Powered switches typically eliminate interaction and/or switching errors.

Does this happen with a specific polarity selected on the primary and secondary STBs?

 

[wvman]

Check the selected port voltage at the LNBF next time this problem happens.

Is there voltage on this port? If so, what is the voltage reading? At the same time, check the voltage at the LNBF port selected by the primary receiver. What is the voltage reading?

Are these powered or passive switches? Powered switches typically eliminate interaction and/or switching errors.

Does this happen with a specific polarity selected on the primary and secondary STBs?

These switches are not powered. The STB supplies the power when a satellite is selected. This is the switch I'm using. Getting a voltage reading at the port or at the LNBF would be hard to do since it only loses signal for a few seconds. I'd never have time to get the cable unhooked to check it. I noticed on Galaxy 17 when the wife's watching Light TV, every channel loses signal.

It doesn't happen on one polarity or the other all the time. At this point, I am open for suggestions on what powered switch would be the best option. I assume with a powered switch, all ports would set up using a 22khz tone??

 

[wvman]

Do I understand right: even when the signal on a satellite is lost, the port of the switch still carries a voltage?
So the problem arises in the LNB?

Greetz,
A33

As I mentioned in the post to Titanium, there isn't time to check the voltage due to the short span of time it's off, like 5 or 6 seconds at most. I'd be really surprised to find a problem with the Titanium LNBF I'm using on all of the C-Band dishes. In fact, I ordered 3 from him not long ago with the filters, and changed out three of them, but it was doing the same thing with the LNBF's I changed out.