Seven states now considering lowering the drinking age

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When I was young, the drinking age here in NC was 18.
When we went to Va., I couldn't buy certain beers, because you had to be 21 to drink those. If I remember correctly, the beer in NC was 3.2%, so 18 was old enough. In Va., some beer was 6.4%, which required you to be 21. But Va. had both kinds. Your age determined which kind of beer you could buy.

I also believe if you're old enough to die for your country, your country should allow you to drink a beer. I haven't drank more than one beer in a day, since 1972. I normally only drink about one beer a year now............ sometimes two, if they're real cold! :)

While driving down the road, if I see someone drinking a beer while they are driving, I immediately call the highway patrol, and give them their license plate number. I despise drunk drivers!
 
Why? Do you magically become responsible at 21?

Do you magically become responsible at 18? Perhaps 12? How about 5? 2 maybe?

Do you become magically responsible enough to drive at 16? Do you magically become responsible to operate heavy machinery at 18? Do you magically become responsible enough to be President at 35?

Is it possible that someone noticed a correlation between age, drinking, and driving?

I remember a story I heard, but I don't remember who to credit with it. A man offered a woman a million dollars to have sex with him. She agreed. He then offered her $20 for the same transaction. Her reply was, 'Who do you think I am?'.

He answered, 'We have already established that. Now, we're negotiating on the price.' My point is that unless you think that age is not the basis for any form of regulation, your argument is really about the age of 21, not the concept. Or is it the concept?
 
No you dont magicacly become responsible which was the point.

At 18 we as a nation has deemed someone to be a legally consenting adult. But they cant drink? Its a pointless law.. I can understand a "Purchaseing restrction" on beer, "You cant buy it till 18 or even 21" but to determine when one is allowed to drink it by law is against the very ideas of this nation. Less government is better government.

If you wish to change the age you become an adult to 21 well thats another debate, but an adult should be able to enjoy all aspects of adulthood without government restrictions.
 
You think that that there shld be restrictions on the purchae of alcohol but not the consumption of it?
 
Yes, much like there are restrictions on going to an R rated movie. They keep minors from doing things without parents premission. At 18 they are an adult and no longer need such premission. So to purchase beer, see an R movie, buy a playboy or medication you need to be an adult or have your parents premission. Sounds reasonable to me.

But if I want to sit down at dinner with my 16 year old and offer him a glass of wine with our meal it should not be criminal for me to do so. I am the parent and should be able to make that decesion. I should also suffer any consequnces for my actions if I let him over drink, he gets ill/sick or does something stupid because of it. Its my responsibility to raise my child not the governments, and when he becomes an adult at 18 hopefully i taught him well enough to make the right choices when he has the ability to choose for himself

(ps: I do not have a 16 year old they are much younger it was hypothetical)
 
Yes, much like there are restrictions on going to an R rated movie. They keep minors from doing things without parents premission. At 18 they are an adult and no longer need such premission. So to purchase beer, see an R movie, buy a playboy or medication you need to be an adult or have your parents premission. Sounds reasonable to me.

But if I want to sit down at dinner with my 16 year old and offer him a glass of wine with our meal it should not be criminal for me to do so. I am the parent and should be able to make that decesion. I should also suffer any consequnces for my actions if I let him over drink, he gets ill/sick or does something stupid because of it. Its my responsibility to raise my child not the governments, and when he becomes an adult at 18 hopefully i taught him well enough to make the right choices when he has the ability to choose for himself

(ps: I do not have a 16 year old they are much younger it was hypothetical)

yea that works well until the kid buys ticket for a pg-13 movie then walks right into the Rated R movie of his choosing, sounds like a well thought out plan:rolleyes:
 
Then he is stealing. and should be punished.

Oh come on now. He bought a ticket. He saw a movie. The theater was not deprived of any money. The only stealing that occurred was that the distributor did not get a royalty on his viewing the movie, and the distributor of the PG film got an extra royalty.

That is identical to "moving", which is not only tolerated, but often encouraged by the members here.
 
Oh come on now. He bought a ticket. He saw a movie. The theater was not deprived of any money. The only stealing that occurred was that the distributor did not get a royalty on his viewing the movie, and the distributor of the PG film got an extra royalty.

That is identical to "moving", which is not only tolerated, but often encouraged by the members here.

Not the same. In the movie situation, he stole from the people who made the movie. The fact that he had a ticket to a different movie is irrelevant. It would be like me buying a used 32" TV from you but instead I take a different TV of yours.

In the case of the "moving", it's like this. Dish charges the same for locals no matter what city. So, DISH doesn't lose any revenue when a person moves. In fact, sometimes it leads to additional revenue when a customer moves from an unserved market to a served one. The broadcasters in a market that someone has "moved" to don't lose revenue, in fact they stand to gain from it in terms of ad exposure. If a "mover" views some national ad and buys the product, the advertiser is more convinced their current ad campaign is working and will continue to buy ads. As far as the old market, I don't believe any broadcaster should have a claim to anyone. The local stations here in Phoenix have no right to dictate who I get my programming from. I will choose the station that best suits me. The local stations that lose customers from "moving" should have to adapt just like any business and improve their programming so people will stay and watch. This would be like the government telling me I have to use the theatre with dirty floors nearest to me when I watch a movie instead of the nicer one across town.
 
Not the same. In the movie situation, he stole from the people who made the movie. The fact that he had a ticket to a different movie is irrelevant. It would be like me buying a used 32" TV from you but instead I take a different TV of yours.

In the case of the "moving", it's like this. Dish charges the same for locals no matter what city. So, DISH doesn't lose any revenue when a person moves. In fact, sometimes it leads to additional revenue when a customer moves from an unserved market to a served one. The broadcasters in a market that someone has "moved" to don't lose revenue, in fact they stand to gain from it in terms of ad exposure. If a "mover" views some national ad and buys the product, the advertiser is more convinced their current ad campaign is working and will continue to buy ads. As far as the old market, I don't believe any broadcaster should have a claim to anyone. The local stations here in Phoenix have no right to dictate who I get my programming from. I will choose the station that best suits me. The local stations that lose customers from "moving" should have to adapt just like any business and improve their programming so people will stay and watch. This would be like the government telling me I have to use the theatre with dirty floors nearest to me when I watch a movie instead of the nicer one across town.

Shennanigans. We are talking about some pimply faced kid buying a $12 ticket to see a PG-13 movie in theater 3 and instead sneaking into theater 5 of the same facility to see a different $12 movie. The theater got the $12, no matter what movie he saw.

With "moving", DISH gets the same $6/month no matter which locals are chosen (same as the theater owner). The broadcasters in the "moved to" market do potentially gain ad revenue, but at the expense of the "moved from" market. So it could be argued that the "mover" is stealing from the stations in the old market. Identically the same thing. The kid paid money and got to see the movie he chose. The "mover" paid money and got to see the stations he chose. In both cases, somebody got cheated out of revenue.

Face it, man is a rationalizing animal and will try to justify what he wants to do, or as the old Russian proveb says: "The church is near, but the roads are slippery. The tavern is far, but I will walk carefully."
 
What does aiming a gun at the enemy and pulling the trigger have to do with making responsible decisions with the drug alcohol? What about those NOT in the military? Apples and oranges.


I can't believe even you were stupid enough to say that Vurb. So you think shooting a gun doesn't ionvolve making responsible decisons?

It takes a responsible decision to decide if that person really needs to be shot or do you just think we should drop these young kids off in a strange country and tell them to shoot anyone that doesn't look like them?
It is morons like you that are destroying this world.
 
Shennanigans. We are talking about some pimply faced kid buying a $12 ticket to see a PG-13 movie in theater 3 and instead sneaking into theater 5 of the same facility to see a different $12 movie. The theater got the $12, no matter what movie he saw.

With "moving", DISH gets the same $6/month no matter which locals are chosen (same as the theater owner). The broadcasters in the "moved to" market do potentially gain ad revenue, but at the expense of the "moved from" market. So it could be argued that the "mover" is stealing from the stations in the old market. Identically the same thing. The kid paid money and got to see the movie he chose. The "mover" paid money and got to see the stations he chose. In both cases, somebody got cheated out of revenue.

Face it, man is a rationalizing animal and will try to justify what he wants to do, or as the old Russian proveb says: "The church is near, but the roads are slippery. The tavern is far, but I will walk carefully."

The theater doesn't get to keep the whole $12 from the movie. There is a portion that is appropriated to the film's makers. That is where the cheating occurs. Here's an example

500 kids buy $12 tickets to "MOVIE PG". If the theatre pays 50% to the film maker, that is $3,000 to a film maker that shouldn't have received the money. However, by those kids jumping over to watch "MOVIE R" instead, the film maker of "MOVIE R" is cheated out of $3,000 that they should be entitled to receive for their work. The theatre would have the same bottom line either way, but the maker of the "MOVIE R" would be cheated.

As far as locals go, no one is forced to watch them. A viewer can simply opt out by not watching. "Moving" does the same thing in that a viewer opts out by not watching his city's locals. A local station has no right to force you to view their channel. However, they have pushed the government to make it so. I should be able to get my ABC from wherever in the country I feel like. If enough people did that with crappy stations and went to someone else's "store" instead, then the crappy station would either go out of business for having an inferior product or they would have to improve their product to attract viewers.

The moved from market is not cheated by the viewer since he owes them nothing for the privilege of watching that channel. They are free terrestrial channels, you only pay DISH for delivery of those channels. The only reason DISH would have to pay a local station is because that station is leaving open commercial air time for DISH-generated ads. If you put 3 TVs with the same local channel via air, cable, and DISH, you would see that at times, the commercials are different. That is what DISH pays the station for, the right to insert their own ad spots. The ad spots are paid for by the advertisers, not the viewers. If the advertisers' campaigns aren't successful, its because the medium wasn't effective. That's usually because the program sucked. That is why some shows have higher ad rates for commercials aired during those shows. I've seen network affiliates running church programming during the day when some other city's same network affiliate is running Family Guy (a show I like). I should have the right to choose which station I want to watch. If the local station lost too many people because of a church program, that is the result of their decision to air undesired programming. The loss of ad revenue would be their fault. That's why shows get canceled.

The only reason I can't choose where I get my ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC from is because the government says so. It's because the National Association of Broadcasters lobbied the government so we are forced to shop at only one store for the shows we want to watch instead of a free market. It doesn't benefit the consumer to be forced to choose one affiliate over another. It's a ban on free choice.
 
I can't believe even you were stupid enough to say that Vurb. So you think shooting a gun doesn't ionvolve making responsible decisons?

It takes a responsible decision to decide if that person really needs to be shot or do you just think we should drop these young kids off in a strange country and tell them to shoot anyone that doesn't look like them?
It is morons like you that are destroying this world.

Exactly. The cop who would cart off a soldier for having a beer, ought to be beaten with a rubber hose. He should be on his knees THANKING that young man for risking his life in combat so that that cop can live in a free country, scarf donuts, swill coffee and hunt down jaywalkers. It's the soldier that keep us from having the boot of the Chinese or Iranian boot on our necks.
 
Exactly. The cop who would cart off a soldier for having a beer, ought to be beaten with a rubber hose. He should be on his knees THANKING that young man for risking his life in combat so that that cop can live in a free country, scarf donuts, swill coffee and hunt down jaywalkers. It's the soldier that keep us from having the boot of the Chinese or Iranian boot on our necks.

Well, we're not quite that close to having Chinese boots on our neck, but a lot of Americans already have Chinese boots on their feet.
 
Shootinga gun involves making reponsible decisions. no question there. But the reguations on alcohol sales and on drinking while drib=ving are based on public safety considerations. Our lilitary deserves respect but they do not have license to disregard the law.

Sirry guys but you are trying to wrap your argument in the american flag and to calim that those who happen to disagree with you are somehow les american than you or don't support or repect the military. That is not true at all.

BTQ we are headed pretty sharply into pit territory---and to be honest this probably always belonhed there it isa political topic plain and simplE.
 
Oh come on now. He bought a ticket. He saw a movie. The theater was not deprived of any money. The only stealing that occurred was that the distributor did not get a royalty on his viewing the movie, and the distributor of the PG film got an extra royalty.

That is identical to "moving", which is not only tolerated, but often encouraged by the members here.

He bought a ticket for movie A and took movie B

Thats like buying a red car but taking the blue one. They will arrest you :) Because you dont own the blue one even if the value is the same. You own the red one.
 
Shootinga gun involves making reponsible decisions. no question there. But the reguations on alcohol sales and on drinking while drib=ving are based on public safety considerations. Our lilitary deserves respect but they do not have license to disregard the law.

Sirry guys but you are trying to wrap your argument in the american flag and to calim that those who happen to disagree with you are somehow les american than you or don't support or repect the military. That is not true at all.

BTQ we are headed pretty sharply into pit territory---and to be honest this probably always belonhed there it isa political topic plain and simplE.

no one is saying anything about Drinking and driving and making that legal. If your 10 or 100 drinking and driving is illegal.

Its not political.. I dont think and everyone has been civil. But whatever :) It would probably get more debate going in the pit though. That is after all where the smarter people hang out :up
 
I was buying beer in Texas at 16, when the drinking age was 18. As a parent of two boys, I understand they are going to find it if they are looking for it.

I spent a lot of time in bars when I was in college...and way too much time on the road driving loaded back to the dorm.

Although I was a responsible guy in most things in my life, that was not one of them. Yes, it was the 70's, but still. I am damn lucky I didn't kill anyone or myself.
 
Having been there and done that (Air Force 71-75) I side with those who say if you wear the uniform you should be afforded WHATEVER rights are granted to the population as a whole.

I would not make that argument, however, for those not wearing the uniform.
 
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