That might be because when you view an upconverted channel on S-Video, it is going 480i->1080i->480i , while an HD channel is only 1080i->480i, so the difference may be due to an extra conversion step.
Scott: Dish HD Quality Question
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Then explain to us why 480i source material on DVDs can look far better on the same HDTVs?
It's a miracle! It's a miracle!
VOOM is going to fix their fiber optic problem on the exact same day as when E* will be converting the retransmission of the VOOM channels from MPEG2 to MPEG4.
Unfortunately the fiber problem will only be fixed enough to enable it to carry 1440x1080, instead of the full 1920x1080 that VOOM's content is stored in.
If you're getting your SD from E* or D*, it is not "near-perfect" SD. I have D* and agree that most of the SD looks soft and fuzzy, but in all actuallity it is E*, D*, and the tv broadcasters that make some, or most SD look like crap, because I have digital 480i SD Locals coming in OTA and they look very good on my 50" Plasma. So if you had the same quality coming in over cable/sat that I have in digital OTA, you would be very happy with your HD set, even in 480i.
Cynically, I would even say that E* and D* are trying to make SD look as bad as possible on HDTV's so you will cough up the extra 10 or 20 dollars a month for HD.
Rather than repeat myself, I'll just link my post from the other thread.
Despite what you may hear from Charlie or any of the Dish apologists here, I don't believe we are ever going to get as good a quality HD picture from satellite (or cable) channels as what's available on an HD dvd format.
It's all about marketing and they simply can't allow sat / cable tv to look better than home video. It was a timing mistake that should never have happened and has been made worse by the dvd format war.
Once the dominate HD dvd format is established and players are entrenched with disk prices comparable to current standard dvds and the industry is moving on to whatever the next big improvement will be, then maybe the sat-cable industry will be allowed to improve.
Despite what you may hear from Charlie or any of the Dish apologists here, I don't believe we are ever going to get as good a quality HD picture from satellite (or cable) channels as what's available on an HD dvd format.
It's all about marketing and they simply can't allow sat / cable tv to look better than home video. It was a timing mistake that should never have happened and has been made worse by the dvd format war.
Once the dominate HD dvd format is established and players are entrenched with disk prices comparable to current standard dvds and the industry is moving on to whatever the next big improvement will be, then maybe the sat-cable industry will be allowed to improve.
Walt,
Nice Conspiracy rant. Neither Dish nor DirecTV are getting any HEAT from anybody to down rez HD because of the Home Theater Market.
The reason both providers are downrez content is because they NEED to to fit that HD content into the limited Bandwidth they have.
If both providers had unlimited bandwidth then they would both have all their HD Channels in full 1920x1080 at a very high Bitrate, but as I already said that is NOT the case.
There is no pressure from outside groups to limit the satellite channels resolution or Bitrate.
John
There wasn't a pressure from us either to race for quantity !
Have you seen post a few years ago about 100s HD channels ?
Everyone was wandered when one or a few HD will come.
And bandwidth was enough that time, man !
But NO - they make up the fu^$#^% fiber cable issue for start !
Have you seen post a few years ago about 100s HD channels ?
Everyone was wandered when one or a few HD will come.
And bandwidth was enough that time, man !
But NO - they make up the fu^$#^% fiber cable issue for start !
Woa, take a breath there Smitty and let your fingers catch up
John, do you naively think these channels just come up for bid on the auction block without any negotiations? How do you know there's no pressure to limit PQ to something "less" than HD DVD quality?
I have a relative who was in the motion picture industry for years, both as a director and producer. He told me 20 years ago that Most of the advance production money comes from the sale of first run video rights. This aspect of marketing is crucial to most productions.
Now how much do you think home video rights would be worth if satellite and cable were able to provide the same quality as what's available on dvd? Even better quality if you're comparing to a non-HD dvd player, which is how this started out.
To that you add the ability for unlimited archives - all at a cost of a few dollars a movie and before you know it, dvd sales drop by 50% as more people wait the few weeks beyond the dvd release date for it to hit PPV.
We're talking multi billions of dollars here that they are not about to give up. I'm betting one of 3 things is going to happen here:
Sat / cable will not be allowed to present the same quality as dvd; or if so, we'll see the time span between dvd release and PPV / VOD increase drastically and premium movie channels even further; or we'll see some type of broadcast flag forced on everything that comes out of hollywood - and it will probably include DVRs.
John, do you naively think these channels just come up for bid on the auction block without any negotiations? How do you know there's no pressure to limit PQ to something "less" than HD DVD quality?
I have a relative who was in the motion picture industry for years, both as a director and producer. He told me 20 years ago that Most of the advance production money comes from the sale of first run video rights. This aspect of marketing is crucial to most productions.
Now how much do you think home video rights would be worth if satellite and cable were able to provide the same quality as what's available on dvd? Even better quality if you're comparing to a non-HD dvd player, which is how this started out.
To that you add the ability for unlimited archives - all at a cost of a few dollars a movie and before you know it, dvd sales drop by 50% as more people wait the few weeks beyond the dvd release date for it to hit PPV.
We're talking multi billions of dollars here that they are not about to give up. I'm betting one of 3 things is going to happen here:
Sat / cable will not be allowed to present the same quality as dvd; or if so, we'll see the time span between dvd release and PPV / VOD increase drastically and premium movie channels even further; or we'll see some type of broadcast flag forced on everything that comes out of hollywood - and it will probably include DVRs.
Bollocks
As the English say Bollocks. The video release time was agreed to many years ago. I used to work for Blockbuster as an assistant manager and it was well know that we got the video 30 to 45 days in advance of PPV which gets it 30 days before say HBO gets it. As far as the pq being reduced for this reason that is also crap. The reason is simple there isn't a 1080 p standard for sat. Right now it is just not possible to transmit it over sat. The bandwidth just isn't there.
As the English say Bollocks. The video release time was agreed to many years ago. I used to work for Blockbuster as an assistant manager and it was well know that we got the video 30 to 45 days in advance of PPV which gets it 30 days before say HBO gets it. As far as the pq being reduced for this reason that is also crap. The reason is simple there isn't a 1080 p standard for sat. Right now it is just not possible to transmit it over sat. The bandwidth just isn't there.
I and most of us here are well aware of the limits of bandwidth and it has relatively little to do with the point I'm, apparently failing to make. Whatever amount of bandwidth is needed can and would be made available - just as long as it's cost effective.
Nothing personal but I'm not sure just how being an assistant manager at a Blockbuster makes you privy to what goes into national and international video distributation contracts but if you do in fact have access to Mr. Keyes, maybe you could ask him why they closed 290 Blockbusters last year and plan to close 280 this year.
The dynamics of video distribution contracts are just that - dynamic. Just because you were getting flicks X days ahead of PPV does not mean it wasn't different before nor that it won't be different 6 months from now.
For example, Netflix is currently hurting Blockbuster. Why? Because they are getting the same product to the viewer quicker and with less hassle. But what if PPV and VOD were all of a sudden making all new releases available in full resolution HD via satellite and (to use your figure) within 30 days of dvd release? I'm talking same PQ as HD dvd and better than standard or up converted dvd. New release movies that you could archive with no loss of quality and would only have to wait a month to own it for a few bucks - right from your living room. BB would have to do a lot more than change their CEO to stay competitive in the new release market and Netflix wouldn't be any better off.
Even with limited quality HD (Lite) sat & cable are affecting video sales and rentals because it is still better than standard dvd and neither HD Dvd nor Blu-Ray have taken hold yet. That's what the broadcast flag is all about and why I'm afraid we're going to see much wider use of it and soon.
Nothing personal but I'm not sure just how being an assistant manager at a Blockbuster makes you privy to what goes into national and international video distributation contracts but if you do in fact have access to Mr. Keyes, maybe you could ask him why they closed 290 Blockbusters last year and plan to close 280 this year.
The dynamics of video distribution contracts are just that - dynamic. Just because you were getting flicks X days ahead of PPV does not mean it wasn't different before nor that it won't be different 6 months from now.
For example, Netflix is currently hurting Blockbuster. Why? Because they are getting the same product to the viewer quicker and with less hassle. But what if PPV and VOD were all of a sudden making all new releases available in full resolution HD via satellite and (to use your figure) within 30 days of dvd release? I'm talking same PQ as HD dvd and better than standard or up converted dvd. New release movies that you could archive with no loss of quality and would only have to wait a month to own it for a few bucks - right from your living room. BB would have to do a lot more than change their CEO to stay competitive in the new release market and Netflix wouldn't be any better off.
Even with limited quality HD (Lite) sat & cable are affecting video sales and rentals because it is still better than standard dvd and neither HD Dvd nor Blu-Ray have taken hold yet. That's what the broadcast flag is all about and why I'm afraid we're going to see much wider use of it and soon.
Used To
You evidently didn't read closely I said I used to work for BB. It was many years ago and have gotten a degree in Broadcast Engineering and work as and engineer in a TV station. But I brought it up to underscore that the agreements for video distribution chain were set up around a decade ago. As far as the DRM thing I'm totally against them. Areas that have DRM in effect for their countries see economic development limited. So it is a case of industries not thinking about the fact that when you restrict technical development you also start restricting capital flow in those areas as well.
IT's good that there is a Netflix to compete w/ BB. The reason that BB is closing stores is simple it is much more cost effective to have central warehouses to deliver rather than a lot of small brick & mortar stores. As far as BB's recent decision to drop HD-DVD over BR I'm not thrilled about that either. Having worked w/ many parts of the video industry (sound engineer, satellite up & downlink installer, video distribution, & broadcast engineer) I'm not happy w/ the way Sony treats everyone. They tend to try and do a my way or the highway attitude. So I still hope that the porn industry starts putting out their product on HD DVD as this may swing the tide back to it. I just don't trust the BR coating to be good enuff to last as well as the proven technique that the HD DVD uses.
You evidently didn't read closely I said I used to work for BB. It was many years ago and have gotten a degree in Broadcast Engineering and work as and engineer in a TV station. But I brought it up to underscore that the agreements for video distribution chain were set up around a decade ago. As far as the DRM thing I'm totally against them. Areas that have DRM in effect for their countries see economic development limited. So it is a case of industries not thinking about the fact that when you restrict technical development you also start restricting capital flow in those areas as well.
IT's good that there is a Netflix to compete w/ BB. The reason that BB is closing stores is simple it is much more cost effective to have central warehouses to deliver rather than a lot of small brick & mortar stores. As far as BB's recent decision to drop HD-DVD over BR I'm not thrilled about that either. Having worked w/ many parts of the video industry (sound engineer, satellite up & downlink installer, video distribution, & broadcast engineer) I'm not happy w/ the way Sony treats everyone. They tend to try and do a my way or the highway attitude. So I still hope that the porn industry starts putting out their product on HD DVD as this may swing the tide back to it. I just don't trust the BR coating to be good enuff to last as well as the proven technique that the HD DVD uses.
You're right and sorry if I came across as ragging on you. It's just that so many people today think we're still in a free society where everyone has an equal chance to compete for the consumer's $$ and that consumer benefits fairly from that competition.
That may have been the case years ago when CEOs and majority stockholders still had honor and integrity but those days are apparently gone and it's become survival of those that own the most lobbyists, lawyers and media manipulators.
That may have been the case years ago when CEOs and majority stockholders still had honor and integrity but those days are apparently gone and it's become survival of those that own the most lobbyists, lawyers and media manipulators.
You seem to be enamored of this myth that people had more integrity at some mythical period in the past.
The reality is that communication was more tightly controlled in the past, and so the news media did not talk about the scandalous behavior. Nowadays, no "gifts" are sufficient to bury a story which can pop up the next day on a blog.
Try looking up "George Randolph Hearst" and his son "William Randolph Hearst". Then you can go on to "Tammany Hall" and "William M. Tweed", and don't forget a side journey to "Richard J. Daley" and then "Joseph P. Kennedy Sr.".
If you do find some miraculous six month period of integrity and honor some time in the past 2 million years of human existence, please let me know, I'd be interested.
There is good info for reading Not So High on High Definition - 12/18/2006 - Multichannel News
I'd like last phrases - "For now, it's going to be tough sledding. In at least one deal outside the U.S., however, Voom has broken its all-or-nothing rule: It has a carriage deal with Telenor's Canal Digital satellite service in Norway, which distributes the Voom Global channel. Here's the kicker: The channel goes out at a whopping 45 Mbps, according to Moyer.
So how's it look? “It is,” Moyer said happily, “uncompromisingly good.”
I'd like last phrases - "For now, it's going to be tough sledding. In at least one deal outside the U.S., however, Voom has broken its all-or-nothing rule: It has a carriage deal with Telenor's Canal Digital satellite service in Norway, which distributes the Voom Global channel. Here's the kicker: The channel goes out at a whopping 45 Mbps, according to Moyer.
So how's it look? “It is,” Moyer said happily, “uncompromisingly good.”
Yeah well once Dish gets things moved over to MPEG4 PQ will be better. But it will be even more better when the Network like HBO or whoever get their stuff on MPEG4 so Dish it seems to be getting their end taken care of. But we all must wait on the Networks to do their part as well.
I cant wait to see the mpeg 4 channels added and how it looks. Things are intersting right now especially with the pub rumblings.
Yeah, we could quickly measure new channel's bandwidth after that and will see who had better numbers in a contract with Dish.
No more silly excuses like that fiction fiber cable problem.
No more silly excuses like that fiction fiber cable problem.
