Saints violate NFL Bounty rules, paid bonuses to injure players

[Rey]

If Vilma did nothing wrong than what did he refuse to talk to the investigators while this was being looked in to?

Hargrove would've also got a year if he didn't sign the "yeah, you got me" document. So I'm trying to figure out Vilma's defense.

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this was a real stupid move by vilma. you better believe if it was me i would want my boss to hear MY side of the story.

 

[salsadancer7]

exactly. they should've stopped the first time they were caught. and while the defense is paid to hit/tackle within the rules, its clear they were aiming for things that are against the current rules. we've said this a million times already that bounties have always existed in the NFL. difference is no one has ever done it to this level and be stupid enough to leave a paper trail like the saints did.

I don't think anyone can truly say your last statement because no one has never ratted a team out....and we will probably never know.

 

[Rey]

I don't think anyone can truly say your last statement because no one has never ratted a team out....and we will probably never know.

there are some that think there's a possibility Williams gave information to the league after he was caught in hopes of one day being able to work in the NFL again.which of course would affect on how these suspensions were handed out. if that's true he can forget about it. no player will listen to a rat and no team will want this guy on their staff when he can't be trusted. of course this is just a rumor at the moment and nothing else.

 

[salsadancer7]

there are some that think there's a possibility Williams gave information to the league after he was caught in hopes of one day being able to work in the NFL again.which of course would affect on how these suspensions were handed out. if that's true he can forget about it. no player will listen to a rat and no team will want this guy on their staff when he can't be trusted. of course this is just a rumor at the moment and nothing else.

And that is why I honestly think it is not true. Football is all that Williams knows...and has gotten paid handsomely for it. That would be career suicide.

 

[Rey]

some people are also connecting the harshness of these suspensions to the effect that concussions may be having with ex players who have dementia and (or) have committed suicide.so it really comes down to the NFL trying to avoid future lawsuits which is why the league is emphasizing safety. i don't have much to say either way since i'm not a doctor and don't know anyone here that is but for now there's no proof that the two issues are related. its definitely something that's being discussed.

 

[cosmo_kramer]

Today is the deadline for the suspended players to file their appeals. So far, only Vilma has...

 

[meStevo]

They've now all appealed

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[Rey]

It's funny how vilma keeps complaining about goodell Not wanting to speak with him but conveniently forgets when the commissioner asked to speak with him before the suspensions and Vilma himself refused pleading the fifth

 

[meStevo]

A lot of the railing against Goodell and the denials are focused on the injury part of it, and glossing over the rest like it didn't matter... which is 100% untrue. It's about time the NFL starts showing it's hand though. Hargrove's signed declaration that was submitted to the NFL apparently confirms that Vitt told him to play dumb with NFL security when asked about the bounty system.

 

[cosmo_kramer]

A lot of the railing against Goodell and the denials are focused on the injury part of it, and glossing over the rest like it didn't matter... which is 100% untrue. It's about time the NFL starts showing it's hand though. Hargrove's signed declaration that was submitted to the NFL apparently confirms that Vitt told him to play dumb with NFL security when asked about the bounty system.

They probably won't show their hand though:

A former U.S. attorney hired by the NFL to evaluate its investigation of the New Orleans Saints' bounty program said Thursday the evidence shows players received payments for hits on targeted opponents.

Mary Jo White said in a conference call that evidence in the league's investigation of the three-year, pay-for-pain system provided "an unusually strong record" and came from people with "firsthand knowledge and corroborated by documentation."

When asked twice whether any players actually were paid for hits, White confirmed they were, without going into specifics. She added that most of the money in the bounty scheme was provided by the players.

"Without them, there wouldn't have been a bounty program," she said.

White, the former U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, was asked last December by the NFL to examine the evidence.

"The factual basis for the sanctions is quite strong in my opinion," she said. "You must safeguard the identity of people that provide information to you in order to protect them, and also to encourage others in the future to come forward with evidence of wrongdoing. This is certainly not a one-on-one, he-said, she-said record at all. This is multiple independent sources."

Counsel Mary Jo White says NFL's bounty evidence vs. New Orleans Saints strong - ESPN

 

[meStevo]

Yeah, whistleblower stuff is a pretty delicate thing. Good that they're putting in place processes to help facilitate this in the future also

 

[meStevo]

Vilma has filed a defamation suit against Goodell, PFT has already pointed out that the suit insists Vilma never "paid or intended to pay" $10k to knock a player out, and did not do anything to deny that it was offered. Pretty big difference, and that's been consistent across his statements.

It looks to me that his camp is preparing to pivot to some kind of hyperbole excuse depending on the evidince that Goodell eventually provides.

 

[cosmo_kramer]

Vilma has filed a defamation suit against Goodell, PFT has already pointed out that the suit insists Vilma never "paid or intended to pay" $10k to knock a player out, and did not do anything to deny that it was offered. Pretty big difference, and that's been consistent across his statements.

It looks to me that his camp is preparing to pivot to some kind of hyperbole excuse depending on the evidince that Goodell eventually provides.

If he is indeed innocent, it probably wasn't the best strategy to decline an offer to meet with Goodell prior to the penalties being handed out.

Vilma requested, then declined, an opportunity to be heard by Goodell | ProFootballTalk

 

[Rey]

If he is indeed innocent, it probably wasn't the best strategy to decline an offer to meet with Goodell prior to the penalties being handed out.

Vilma requested, then declined, an opportunity to be heard by Goodell | ProFootballTalk

That's what I've said all along. If that was me and I was innocent you can bet goodell will hear my side of the story.

 

[meStevo]

If it were me I wouldn't have been silent for months pending punishment either. I would have gone thermonuclear on everyone like Shockey did when he was outed by Sapp.

 

[salsadancer7]

It is going to be interesting and embarassing as hell for the NFL if they went hersay with no concrete evidence. Then every single suspension after that will have to go to some kind of independent counsel....like it should have from day one.

 

[meStevo]

It is going to be interesting and embarassing as hell for the NFL if they went hersay with no concrete evidence. Then every single suspension after that will have to go to some kind of independent counsel....like it should have from day one.

I think it's much more likely to stay as-is because it was collectively bargained.

 

[cosmo_kramer]

It is going to be interesting and embarassing as hell for the NFL if they went hersay with no concrete evidence. Then every single suspension after that will have to go to some kind of independent counsel....like it should have from day one.

I doubt they relied on heresay alone to come up with the suspension lengths. Check out the link I posted in post #190...

 

[salsadancer7]

I doubt they relied on heresay alone to come up with the suspension lengths. Check out the link I posted in post #190...

We will see. I am just saying...there is way too much room for doubt when the commissioner is both the judge and appeals process.

 

[meStevo]

We will see. I am just saying...there is way too much room for doubt when the commissioner is both the judge and appeals process.

That's only the case for off the field issues though, and while he's the judge he relies on others in the process of every fine and suspension to recognize incidents and recommend punishment. Most appeals go to the jointly hired Ted Cotrell and Art Shell.

Again, this is all stuff the players agreed to.