Router issue with 50MB service

[rockymtnhigh]

Have spent a lot of time playing with the router and looking at others. Very interested in the Cisco E4200 router, but its $160, and I just am not sure I want to spend that much right now. In the meantime I have set the router to 80211n ONLY, putting the channel on Auto and it seems to be working without problems from the microwave oven. (Although there are problems if it is set to ch 11 - the internet connection does not drop like it used to, but the effect is the same (won't do anything at all). But with it on 80211N, Auto channel, and 20/40Mhz it seems to be doing well. AND right now anyways, I am getting 20-26 from speedtest. I am still planning on a new access point, but haven't gotten that far yet.

I did go to Best Buy to look at options. The sales guy was swearing by the Apple Airport Extreme as the best router out, but his recommendations didn't jive with what I have read for mixed networks of PCs, game consoles, mac's). And of course the Extreme is $179, even more than the Cisco E4200.

 

[JerseyMatt]

WRONG. If I am paying $100 per month for broadband, they should at least make an effort to provide some suggestions as to how to optimize it, and not just say "the broadband is split between all the computers using it." That illustrated that they just were not interested in providing any assistance. Hell, they are so inept, I can not even get their system to actually make an auto-pay work. But they are the only game in town beyond a 7mb DSL option.

Of course, if you had read further in the thread, you would have seen that I had moved beyond blaming comcrap, and have been working on finding ways to improve the wireless connectivity. I accept their lack of customer service and have been working with folks here in finding ways to optimize my connectivity.

They have no interest in nor obligation to providing FREE support for 3rd party hardware. If you want them to support you, then you have to use their hardware only. That's just the way it works. Because when you use their hardware, they know how it is supposed to be set up and what the settings are supposed to be. Otherwise you have to either go to the manufacturer and hope they're willing to help you, or pay someone like me $75 an hour to come over and troubleshoot it for you (and my solution would be to pull a brand new Linksys out of my truck and install it). Trust me, I'm not defending them in any way, because I know how they work. But you have to understand that their blowing you off wasn't out of line. They are only obligated to get your service to the last piece of THEIR equipment, which they did.

It just comes down to the router is junk. Belkin is synonymous with crap as far as network gear goes. I've run into more problems with that brand than all others combined.

N uses MIMO (multi in multi out), so it doesn't suffer from the "slave speed syndrome" that G does when multiple G clients or a B client is connected. The G/B clients will still split their available bandwidth when connected to an N router (54Mbps divided by the number of clients), but it does not affect the N clients.

Have spent a lot of time playing with the router and looking at others. Very interested in the Cisco E4200 router, but its $160, and I just am not sure I want to spend that much right now. In the meantime I have set the router to 80211n ONLY, putting the channel on Auto and it seems to be working without problems from the microwave oven. (Although there are problems if it is set to ch 11 - the internet connection does not drop like it used to, but the effect is the same (won't do anything at all). But with it on 80211N, Auto channel, and 20/40Mhz it seems to be doing well. AND right now anyways, I am getting 20-26 from speedtest. I am still planning on a new access point, but haven't gotten that far yet.

I did go to Best Buy to look at options. The sales guy was swearing by the Apple Airport Extreme as the best router out, but his recommendations didn't jive with what I have read for mixed networks of PCs, game consoles, mac's). And of course the Extreme is $179, even more than the Cisco E4200.

Basically the faster speeds require more processing horsepower, which means higher hardware prices. Being as 50Mbps service hasn't yet been rolled out here, I don't run into too many requests for N routers. Most people have a 5-10Mbps line with one or two wifi devices in the house and G suits them fine. The one I use is a Linksys WRT-600N, cost me $250 a couple years ago, and even though it's discontinued, they still pull a premium on ebay because they're awesome. But for customers I carry the E3000. It's basically the same router as the E4200 (with the exception of half the flash memory) when you load DD-WRT on it, and it costs $50 less.

 

[Frank Jr.]

The WRT-600N I have never used or known anyone who has but I have read some pretty bad reviews over the past few years. I have a friend that has a DIR-855 that I am so impressed with. The antennas are detachable. He has a two story house and has the antennas mounted in the attic. As far as distance, all I can say is wow! A security feature I like is the ability to turn off the wireless radio with a button on the top of the box when not needed. If I could find one for less than 200 dollars I would jump on it. Rocky, if you get fed up with the Belkin take a look at this router. Just have the checkbook ready.
cnet reveiw pcmag reveiw

 

[JerseyMatt]

I'd bet anything that no one who gave it a bad review had DD-WRT on it. Stock firmware sucks in pretty much any router. TBH the button to turn off the radio is a bit silly. It can be done in the configuration page on all routers, and with DD-WRT you can even have it turn on and off automatically at the times you set.

 

[Frank Jr.]

It can be done in the configuration page on all routers, and with DD-WRT you can even have it turn on and off automatically at the times you set.

Not trying to argue with you, Linksys makes fine routers, but who wants to go to the configuration page when you can just press a button on top of the router? OBTW my friend Charlie who owns the DIR 855 told me that the 855 is fine without DD-WRT ........

 

[JerseyMatt]

How many people do you think actually use the button? It'd be a safe bet that its a very small number, and the ones that do probably also wear a tinfoil hat. The router is an 'out of sight out of mind' piece of hardware that you don't even think about until it screws up and needs a reboot. Nobody turns the radio on and off.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Basically the faster speeds require more processing horsepower, which means higher hardware prices. Being as 50Mbps service hasn't yet been rolled out here, I don't run into too many requests for N routers. Most people have a 5-10Mbps line with one or two wifi devices in the house and G suits them fine. The one I use is a Linksys WRT-600N, cost me $250 a couple years ago, and even though it's discontinued, they still pull a premium on ebay because they're awesome. But for customers I carry the E3000. It's basically the same router as the E4200 (with the exception of half the flash memory) when you load DD-WRT on it, and it costs $50 less.

I get it, and am not concerned about spending $160, its just I am going on vacation in 10 days, and will probably hold off until I return. New router? Extra cash for Maui?

But I appreciate the info. The WRT-600N looks very nice, and it is still $249 on Amazon! I am pretty sure I'll get the E4200.

 

[diogen]

The WRT-600N I have never used or known anyone who has but I have read some pretty bad reviews over the past few years. I have a friend that has a DIR-855 that I am so impressed with.

I have the exact opposite experience: DD-WRT on a 610N didn't need reboot for over 9 months now.
And I can't talk about D-Link without using expletives...

Diogen.

 

[Dirtydan]

I get it, and am not concerned about spending $160, its just I am going on vacation in 10 days, and will probably hold off until I return. New router? Extra cash for Maui?

But I appreciate the info. The WRT-600N looks very nice, and it is still $249 on Amazon! I am pretty sure I'll get the E4200.

I had the E3000 installed and configured with different firmware then stock, works fine. My computer tech said that the E4200 was not needed, but this might be different for you, but $75 at Wally World is a lot less money.

 

[lakebum431]

Also, linking to your own site, could very easily be interpreted as SPAM...

 

[rockymtnhigh]

So... I buy the Cisco E4200. Nice piece of equipment. Set it up pretty easily. BUT.... none of my devices EXCEPT the iPad see's the 5GHz network. None of the rest of them can see it. GRRR.... I have both running. 5GHz with SSID of stargate, 2.4GHz running with SSID of gateroom.

While stargate (5GHz) works on the iPad, it actually seems slower. No test available for bandwidth. The 2.4GHz network on the toshiba is much better than on Belkin (got 28Mb on speedtest), But this still irritates me. Can't figure out why it is NOT seeing the network.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

I think I figured it out... the card in this laptop supports B/G/N, NOT A. And A is 5GHz, thus, this stupid wireless adapter does not support it. Grrr... Kind of was the whole point...

 

[harshness]

The fact is that 5GHz doesn't get out as well as 2.4GHz. Just as Ka doesn't penetrate as well as Ku which doesn't penetrate as well as C-band, 5GHz at the same power doesn't go as far as 2.4GHz. The higher frequency is strictly to avoid interference; not because it penetrates walls and floors better (the opposite is true).

The E4200 most certainly does both 2.4GHz and 5GHz 802.11n simultaneously. That your notebook adapter doesn't handle 802.11a is of no consequence (we could point you in the right direction but you've thus far been very secretive about model information on your existing equipment). 802.11a is essentially the 5GHz version of 802.11b (2.4GHz) so that's not the answer. If it doesn't support 5GHz at all, that's another story, but not one that's necessarily going to ruin the experience.

You need to gather some facts and apply logic as opposed to using partial or incorrect theories and applying hope and head scratching.

Consider the materials used in the construction of your home. Think about what the walls, ceilings and floors covered with and what kind of metalwork or structural lumber you have that might impede the signal. Tile and masonry can really do a number on the higher frequency stuff.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

The fact is that 5GHz doesn't get out as well as 2.4GHz. Just as Ka doesn't penetrate as well as Ku which doesn't penetrate as well as C-band, 5GHz at the same power doesn't go as far as 2.4GHz. The higher frequency is strictly to avoid interference; not because it penetrates walls and floors better (the opposite is true).

The E4200 most certainly does both 2.4GHz and 5GHz 802.11n simultaneously. That your notebook adapter doesn't handle 802.11a is of no consequence (we could point you in the right direction but you've thus far been very secretive about model information on your existing equipment). 802.11a is essentially the 5GHz version of 802.11b (2.4GHz) so that's not the answer. If it doesn't support 5GHz at all, that's another story, but not one that's necessarily going to ruin the experience.

You need to gather some facts and apply logic as opposed to using partial or incorrect theories and applying hope and head scratching.

Consider the materials used in the construction of your home. Think about what the walls, ceilings and floors covered with and what kind of metalwork or structural lumber you have that might impede the signal. Tile and masonry can really do a number on the higher frequency stuff.

Secretive? Huh? No one ever asked what the laptop was. Never thought it relative. I have clearly stated what router I had. And I was gathering facts, after doing a search.

But for the record It's a toshiba e105-s1802 laptop running an atheros AR9281wireless b/g/n adapter, and I have tested it in the same room looking for the 5ghz ssid. The 5ghz band does reach the whole house, I am using it on my iPad right now on the second floor, and the router is in the basement. The toshiba is just not seeing it, neither is the droid, or the wireless n adapter on the desktop also in the basement.

I didn't make that up about the wiresless A; I found numerous sites on a google search that said if a wireless n adapter doesn't support A, it won't see the 5ghz band. And one of the 5ghz options is wireless a/n only. The specs on the toshiba clearly say 80211 B/G/N.

I have tried it on several different channels and on 20 and 40 mhz options. Nada.

Sent from my iPad using SatelliteGuys

 

[rockymtnhigh]

So here are speedtest differences:

From 10 foot away: 2.4GHz, Mixed network (Wireless N, G, B) -- had to turn on Wireless G so my wife could access her kindle

F

On the main floor, about 30 foot away, and 10 ft higher:

A heck of an improvement for sure, but sure wish I could get it to be on 5GHz

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Now here are the results using 2.4GHz, Wireless N only. Huge Difference from taking the Wireless B and G out of the picture. 17Mb more throughput. THese tests were done within 2 minutes of each other.

From 10 foot away:

From upstairs, 30 foot away, 10 ft higher:

 

[rockymtnhigh]

On a whim, I moved the Belkin access point (since that is what it is configured for right now) up to the second floor of the house, where I had an existing ethernet port available on a switch. Set it to Wireless N, and ran speedtest from the normal place I work with my laptop. Went from 8Mb to 22Mb. I guess I will figure out how to configure the E4200 as an access point (it does not have a specific setting to do it, but all I should have to do is disable DHCP and NAT, and give it a 192.168.1.199 address). Since I routinely get 20 from the Cisco with it in the basement, this should bring it closer to the hoped for 35 or 40.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

After fighting with the Cisco router for awhile, I succeeded in turning it into an access point. On the Belkin when you are in access point mode, you put the ethernet into the WAN port. So I assumed the same was true with the Cisco. Nope. Not at all. Once I put it into a LAN port, I managed to get wireless working with it. So now the Belkin is in the basement near the network junction, powering the wired network, and putting out a Wireless B/G network for legacy devices in the house. And the Cisco is upstairs, pushing out 2.4Ghz N. 5GHz is disabled because right now I only have the iPad that reads it, and it is fine with the 2.4Ghz access.

Now I will need to try and see how the performance differs. Unfortunately so much is dependent on internet traffic with specific speedtest sites, so I'll have to test it out over a few days. I do know Comcast is pumping a lot at me -- I got 62Mb this afternoon on a wired machine. I ran WiFi Analyzer on my Droid, and my signal strength has improved by about 30 percent.