Roof Leak from dish... I pay for it, AND to move Dish?

[Commdeck]

Owner

If you have any questions about the Commdeck product please e-mail me at rdickerson@rstcenterprises.com I would like your feedback about the products.

Both Commdeck and Retrodeck have been added to the Echostar approved parts list and are Approved by DirecTV and Wildblue.


Thank you,

Ron Dickerson

 

[tysonwetzel]

I wish they made those for 1 meter dishes, that's pretty cool.

 

[Mike500]

Too bad I didn't take any photos.

A couple a months ago, I made a special mount for a customer for an AT9.

I cut a 2-1/4 inch hole with a hole saw using an extension right next to the rafter, where I was going to place the AT9. Then, I loosely installed a standard neoprene collared aluminun vent pipe flashing ovr the hole.

Under the roof, I placed a 2 inch galvanized commercial line post through the flashing from the bottom. Using slotted angle steel and I braced the post on the rafter and the two adjacent ones, making sure the pole was plumb.

Outside, I fastened the flashing and sealed it in the prescrobed way.

Then, I mounted the AT9 and rand the coaxes into the attic through the pole.

Then I fastened a FERNCO brand 1-1/2 inch "Tee" to flexible "P" trap om its side. One leg of the "Tee" fastened to the bottom of the pole, while running the coax through the "P" trap and out the drain entry end. This, I sealed with silicone around the cables.

The bottom of the "Tee" went to a piece of 3/4" PVC and to an elbow that I added to the regular vent pipe.

The install is superstrong and leakproof. Any water that enters through the top goes to the plumbing drain. It is a really neat install, too.

This does the same thing as the Commdeck.

If the pole is close to the AC condensate drain, it can go there. It can also go out to the end wall if it is over the flashing of a lower roof.

 

[dishcomm]

Too bad I didn't take any photos.

A couple a months ago, I made a special mount for a customer for an AT9.

I cut a 2-1/4 inch hole with a hole saw using an extension right next to the rafter, where I was going to place the AT9. Then, I loosely installed a standard neoprene collared aluminun vent pipe flashing ovr the hole.

Under the roof, I placed a 2 inch galvanized commercial line post through the flashing from the bottom. Using slotted angle steel and I braced the post on the rafter and the two adjacent ones, making sure the pole was plumb.

Outside, I fastened the flashing and sealed it in the prescrobed way.

Then, I mounted the AT9 and rand the coaxes into the attic through the pole.

Then I fastened a FERNCO brand 1-1/2 inch "Tee" to flexible "P" trap om its side. One leg of the "Tee" fastened to the bottom of the pole, while running the coax through the "P" trap and out the drain entry end. This, I sealed with silicone around the cables.

The bottom of the "Tee" went to a piece of 3/4" PVC and to an elbow that I added to the regular vent pipe.

The install is superstrong and leakproof. Any water that enters through the top goes to the plumbing drain. It is a really neat install, too.

This does the same thing as the Commdeck.

If the pole is close to the AC condensate drain, it can go there. It can also go out to the end wall if it is over the flashing of a lower roof.

I take it the drainsl is thru the soffit vent..Or did you fashion a pipe theat protrudes thru the soffit vent?..Anyway, please tell me you did not do this for free....
Got a question..Did you consider a 2" no caulk roof collar..These are what are typically used for roof penetrating PVC vent stack pipes...This would have worked effectively and would have met plumbing code standards..And no need for the extra engineering...

 

[Frank Jr.]

I'm way too tired to read this whole thread but when you own and upkeep two houses over the years and replace the shingles on both every 15 years or so you learn it's not a good idea to mount anything on them. When I see a dish or anything else fastened onto a roof I cringe. Not a good idea. If you mount anything to an outside surface on a house it is an aditional maintenance issue. Ignore it and it will bite you in the a**.

 

[dishcomm]

I'm way too tired to read this whole thread but when you own and upkeep two houses over the years and replace the shingles on both every 15 years or so you learn it's not a good idea to mount anything on them. When I see a dish or anything else fastened onto a roof I cringe. Not a good idea. If you mount anything to an outside surface on a house it is an aditional maintenance issue. Ignore it and it will bite you in the a**.

Ok..That makes sense ..but what do we tell Dish when they come down on us for low completetion rates?....
Do we tell them' "oh we're not doing roof mounts anymore"...?
Yeah, that and 35 cents will get you a phone call...While Dish takes our work away and gives it all to someone else.....

 

[Mike500]

I take it the drainsl is thru the soffit vent..Or did you fashion a pipe theat protrudes thru the soffit vent?..Anyway, please tell me you did not do this for free....
Got a question..Did you consider a 2" no caulk roof collar..These are what are typically used for roof penetrating PVC vent stack pipes...This would have worked effectively and would have met plumbing code standards..And no need for the extra engineering...

Nope! It was not done for FREE. It was a high end custom job. I did use a NO CAULK flashing. Still, you had to glue the shingles down on the flashing.

I connected that one to a plumbing drain and vent with a "TEE." If the AC was in the attic, I would have used the main condensate drain. I didn't wat it to drip out under the eave in the soffit, when it rained.

 

[Mike500]

It all depends on the skill and knowledge level of the technician on getting a good job.

I install antenna tripods and dishes on roofs often.

Never mount on a flat roof or within 2 feet of a valley. The strongest mounting point is at the corner of the house right at the convergence of the wall corners and the rafters. The rafters are easy to find there. Movement will never be a problem.

Never "glue" the dish foor to the roof with silicone or roofing cement, like it advised in the self install manuals. Don't predrill holes for the mount, and don't use 1/4" or 5/16" lag screws. Use 1/4" (#14)x 3 inch hex head drive hardened sheet metal screws. If you can't find them at hardware stores, Home Depot sells small packages under the Simpson Strong Tie brand. They will about never break like lag screws. Drive one, without predrilling through the center round hole through the shingles into the rafter. Plumb the pole in the up/down swing direction. Tap the foot in the corner until the pole is plumb in the opposite 90 degree axis. Drive the second three inch screw in the crescent slotted center foot axis hole. Drive four 1/4(#14)x1-1/2" long hex head hardened sheet metal screws into the corners, just enough, since these can easily strip out as they are going through shingles or light OSB or plywood flashing.

Actually on a pitched roof, no sealing is necessary. The heat from power driving the screws, without predrilling melts and displaces the asphalt from the shingles around the screw and rehardens. Just to satisfy the customer, I might put some sealant on the screw heads. Thick layers of tar makes for an ugly install and does no good.

When it comes to dish removal time, remove the screws. You are left with six less than 1/4" diameter holes that are easily sealed. The shingles do not come off with the mounting foot, as if it was "glued" to the roof. A dish foot "glued" to the roof will not keep the dish on the roof during a storm. It just takes the shingles off with it. Fastening the dish to the roof means screwing into the roof.

Re-roofing and realignment is easy. Snip off the head six 16d (penny) nails and place them in the holes, with the dish removed and the points sticking out about 1/2." As the roofer puts down the roof, the points will protrude through the shingles. Put the dish over these protruding nails. Pull the nails out one at a time with pliers, and replace each screw into the same place that they were taken out.

When I can get into the attic, I use large washered "PALNUTS." 1/4" ones go right on the tips of the screws and make them, in essence, bolts.

When close to the rake board, I have the cables enter under the overhang in the attic, so that the entry point is protected from rain entry.

Under an eave, I drill a one inch hole and use fiberglass rods to push the cables into the attic, like a thread and needle.

If the roof has a ridge vent, I go under it for cable entry.

When there is no entry point in the middle of the roof, I make a special entry flashing out of a 12x12 inch piece of 8oz copper. All I do is to drill a 1 inch hole in the roof at the top and middle of one of the shingle tabs. Then I cut the shingle tab with a vertical slot up to the hole. Using a wide drywall knife, I lift the shingles up around the surrounding area. After placing the coax into the hole, I shove the copper sheet up under the slotted tab and work the copper down over the cables. Then, using copper nails, I nail the bottom corners of the flashing down. Then, a caulking tube of roofing cement, I seal the bottom end of the flashing, where the cables go under it. Finally, I cement down the two pieces of the shingle tab over the top part of the copper flashing. Unless you are experienced at roofing and know exactly what you are doing, I do not recommend anyone to use this technique. But it does provide a very discrete and waterproof cable entry in the middle of a roof. For additional weatherproofing, I might inject the cable entry hole in the sheathing in the attic with silicone.

 

[cablewithaview]

MoiMare I discussed this issue a few months back, here: http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=70882&highlight=OMG
Some people seem ok with a dish mounted on a roof. I'm not by no means. You was one of those examples of why it shouldn't be mounted there. I got 3 in the wall and 2 on post here at the house.

 

[Wylwrk]

9 years for me....I am the silcone king..I will load that thing up(neatly) so it never leaks..I have never had a roof leak complaint ..Ever..I make sure their is nothing left to chance.. I go over all aspects of the job before I so much as take a tool off my truck. I have the customer ALWAYS sign off on the entire install before I leave the site......They undersatnd that they approved the job ..We gurantee the job for a year..After that it's on the customer..One year is reasonable in any trade involving home construction or alteration..We can't be held liable forever..That would send this business right down the toilet..could you imagine a guy coming after you 5 years after the fact to pay for a new roof?
My response to that would be "see you in court...In about 5 years"....

I've found silicone loses it's ability to shed/block water after a short time used that way.

Pitch pad on the other hand is wonderfull (tar based product). It just has to be used correctly.

 

[Commdeck]

One thing to keep in mind when doing your own custom work. Commdeck and Retrodeck have been engineered and tested to pass Echostar, DirecTV and WildBlue specifications...windloads, powdercoating salt spray ect... The install company is also not held accountable to any liability or warranty issues as long as the products are installed with the pre-packaged hardware and by the installation guidlines.

 

[Mike500]

One thing to keep in mind when doing your own custom work. Commdeck and Retrodeck have been engineered and tested to pass Echostar, DirecTV and WildBlue specifications...windloads, powdercoating salt spray ect... The install company is also not held accountable to any liability or warranty issues as long as the products are installed with the pre-packaged hardware and by the installation guidlines.

As a Master Electrician, I have erected many a mast 6-9 feet above a roof deck, without using a bucket truck to access the weatherhead, after it was in place.

What if I told you, I can erect an AT9, 8-10 feet above a roof deck, without having to go up 10 feet above the roof to adjust and peak it.

Hey, millions of vent pipe and mast roof flashings have been installed every days, and millions are in service. They cost about $5 per anywhere. The meet with the UPC, NEC, and almost every code out there.

 

[dougruss]

As a Master Electrician, I have erectrician, I have erected many a mast 6-9 feet above a roof deck, without using a bucket truck to access the weatherhead, after it was in place.

See a Doctor if it last more than 4 Hours !!!

 

[Wylwrk]

See a Doctor if it last more than 4 Hours !!!

 

[Lilazzkicker]

Ive been a big fan of these forms for the last couple months, kind of an eye opener in some aspects, as well as seeing that others have run into that special brand of customer that wants everything for free. Most the customers I talk to are great to work with, but occasionally everyone runs into that special handful.

Like the original post of this thread, one of my calls earlier this month, involved a cust having roofers out to reroof the home, (bout that time for it anyways), and was experiencing some leakage towards the peak. Well, make things sort, the dish needed to be moved, as she didnt want it on the roof, an it was going to be moved anyways. Most calls start out fine, till you get to the point of discussing costs of moving equipment. Let it be known the install was over 4 years old. At the point of explaining the 99$ cost of moving the dish, she became infuriated and claimed the dish was installed incorrectly in the first place, as it wasnt were she wanted it in the first place, and it was most likely the cause of the leak. I can see working with this.. especially withen the first 6months to 1 year, especially if I got a track record to work off of. Course, no over all complaints. Finally it escelates, to the point where they are now claiming possible dmg, doesnt want the group that handles damages, just a supervisor.

Sure thing, get a manager, talk it over with cust, one thing we can do, set up to have a FSM come out, inspect damages, verify if dish caused...cust fine with that, if no damage is found, cust agreed to the 99$. Course nothing was found on sight, aside from poor maintence of the roof itself, and a cust claiming damage at the peak was cause by the dish.. Turns out the dish was mounted on the further outer edge of the roof, on the lower over hang.

Of every 5 legitimate calls I get, I get another 10-15 calls that would ruin the job for me, if it wasnt for those 5 legitimate callers that make the entire job worth it. Those 5 callers are the ones I will go out of my way to help, especially if I see them in a bad position.

 

[Stargazer]

I have customers wanting everything for free for a while now. Free free free. Service calls, beyond basic installations, parts, etc. I used to do free service calls until they kept having me go to their home for nothing and gas prices increasing and them not appreciate what I am doing so I started slapping them with the service call fees and they dont have me come out near as often now unless they really need me. I solve a lot of problems over the phone when I can and determine then if I need to come over. I charge for all service calls for a while now unless a problem happened shortly after installation was done or it was a fault of my own.

 

[dishcomm]

Ive been a big fan of these forms for the last couple months, kind of an eye opener in some aspects, as well as seeing that others have run into that special brand of customer that wants everything for free. Most the customers I talk to are great to work with, but occasionally everyone runs into that special handful.

Like the original post of this thread, one of my calls earlier this month, involved a cust having roofers out to reroof the home, (bout that time for it anyways), and was experiencing some leakage towards the peak. Well, make things sort, the dish needed to be moved, as she didnt want it on the roof, an it was going to be moved anyways. Most calls start out fine, till you get to the point of discussing costs of moving equipment. Let it be known the install was over 4 years old. At the point of explaining the 99$ cost of moving the dish, she became infuriated and claimed the dish was installed incorrectly in the first place, as it wasnt were she wanted it in the first place, and it was most likely the cause of the leak. I can see working with this.. especially withen the first 6months to 1 year, especially if I got a track record to work off of. Course, no over all complaints. Finally it escelates, to the point where they are now claiming possible dmg, doesnt want the group that handles damages, just a supervisor.

Sure thing, get a manager, talk it over with cust, one thing we can do, set up to have a FSM come out, inspect damages, verify if dish caused...cust fine with that, if no damage is found, cust agreed to the 99$. Course nothing was found on sight, aside from poor maintence of the roof itself, and a cust claiming damage at the peak was cause by the dish.. Turns out the dish was mounted on the further outer edge of the roof, on the lower over hang.

Of every 5 legitimate calls I get, I get another 10-15 calls that would ruin the job for me, if it wasnt for those 5 legitimate callers that make the entire job worth it. Those 5 callers are the ones I will go out of my way to help, especially if I see them in a bad position.

Some customers want the world handed to them..This one sounds like a doozy..you have much more patience than I..The moment a customer gets belligerent and abusive ,I walk..
anyway, I had a similar instance...The customer after 9 months had a roof leak...Supe went and checked it out..He looked in the attic and found the leak was not from dish but form a rotted flashing around a vent stack ..She tried ot maintain it was out fault but no dice..She needed a new roof anyway...She finally let it go..
It is amazing the crap some people will try to pull..