Roof Dish Mount Only Option?

[iwantdirectv]

Hi there! I'm already 2 weeks into my quest for DirecTV, and my 3rd reschedule is coming on Thursday. Installers and experienced satellite customers, please tell me what alternatives I have here or how I can make the most of a disappointing situation.

The installer came out Monday and ran through dish mount options with me. He wanted to install on my 4x4 fence post, but I know our fence contractor did not sink the posts far enough in cement for that to be a secure option. (I've personally repaired other posts, so I know they're only 12-18" deep not to mention wood rather than steel.) He said that he cannot install on siding, brick is only on the front of my home in the wrong direction for satellite reception, and my roof is a pavilion-hip style meaning that the roof slopes on all four sides with gutters covering the fascia all around. He thinks that the only remaining option is a direct roof mount on my 2-story home. Is it?

Now for the specifics. I am getting the 3 LNB here in the Nashville market with the off-air antenna for local HD. (5 LNB superdish not available here yet.) My installer said that he can mount the 3 LNB on the roof now, but when the 5 LNB model comes out it will not be able to mount to the same hardware. Thus, I will have one set of holes now and a new set of holes later. He also said that the 5 LNB will definitely have to be a roof mount because of its bulk/weight. No matter what, if I want to have DirecTV in my life, that means that I will have to live with holes in my roof at some point.

My installer said that he will place the dish above the overhang portion of the roof so at least the holes will not be over the main body of my house. He does not want to do a roof mount but sounded like he would do a thorough job with sealing tape and silicone. My roof is fiberglass shingles, so do I need more or better sealants?

Alternatively, I found a website dbsinstall.com where you can click on Product Showcase and then Eave Mounts. They show an EM-6 bracket that could be useful in my exact application. It essentially is an upside-down L-shape with a mounting plate angled between the ends of the L in a triangular fashion. Their description states, "The EM-6 is a heavy duty under eaves mount. This mount works great for hip roofs with gutters." Would this actually work for the 3 LNB now, the 5 LNB later, neither or both? Should I buy one ($35) before the installer comes Thursday?

My final concern is wind. There is a home to the dish side of my house and skinny trees behind, but we're talking about an exposed oval sail sitting on top of a 2-story home. Are we going to have guaranteed damage, or will a secure installation be fine?

Thanks in advance. There are some real pros on this forum, so all feedback will be appreciated.

 

[Firefighter Dan]

How about placing a cemented in galvanized metal pole right in front of the 4x4 fence post and have it mounted there? Is that an esthetics issue?

 

[dragon002]

he cant install on siding.......WHY???

 

[WildeComputers]

I had my DirecWay installed on metal post because I would not allow it to be mounted on my roof (which is where they wanted to put it). I did pay an extra $100 for the pole. They did allow me to buy my own, but after I installed it, they said it wasn't going to be secure, which is why I ended up with the $100 pole directly from the installer. The funny part is I payed for DirecWay at a time they were offering a $100 rebate for new subscribers.

I installed my Dish Network service with a pole too. So it can easily be done. You may get bored holding the pole level while the cement sets in place, but I have never had a problem with these mounts, not even due to wind.

 

[iwantdirectv]

As for mounting to a steel pole, no low option will really be safe at our home. We have several little children, and there are literally 10 others within a stone's throw. Any dish installed on the first floor or lower will be in danger of soccer or football or climbing damage/shifting/realignment. I don't think any pole installation goes from the ground up to a 2nd story height where it would be safe, and the back corner of my house where that would aesthetically be acceptable is blocked by trees. For site line purposes, the roof mount is supposed to go on the side of my house halfway between the front and back corners.

As for mounting on the siding, my installer stated that headquarters (local or corporate?) stopped letting them do that about 4-6 months ago. He said that it doesn't hold up over the long haul, that wall board usually found behind siding is not sufficient to support the weight and fight wind, etc. Does anyone know if that is true or made up? Should I try to find a private guy, not DirecTV's subcontractor, to get this installed on my siding or will that be worse than the roof mount?

 

[dcwebman]

I have had the old style dish installed on the roof of 2 previous houses with no problems at all. As long as the holes are sealed there will be no leaks. I'm having an AT9 installed on Monday and if he wants to put it on the roof, no problem.

 

[gene1138]

I have had the old style dish installed on the roof of 2 previous houses with no problems at all. As long as the holes are sealed there will be no leaks. I'm having an AT9 installed on Monday and if he wants to put it on the roof, no problem.

Yes other people have had their AT9 installed on the roof as well. I just think this installer doesn't want to go through any extra effort to bring the heavier AT9 up on the roof. I think he is just being lazy.

 

[Mainstreet]

As for mounting on the siding, my installer stated that headquarters (local or corporate?) stopped letting them do that about 4-6 months ago. He said that it doesn't hold up over the long haul, that wall board usually found behind siding is not sufficient to support the weight and fight wind, etc. Does anyone know if that is true or made up? Should I try to find a private guy, not DirecTV's subcontractor, to get this installed on my siding or will that be worse than the roof mount?

You do not want your dish mounted to the siding. Anyone who has ever installed vinyl siding will tell you that you have to mount siding loosely so that it can expand and contract in varying temperatures. The siding could buckle and warp in the different seasons if you mount the dish permanently to it. The inherent space between the mast foot and the wood behind the siding can also cause the lag screws to work their way out over time, making the dish unstable. It sounds like your installer knows what he's doing, and is reluctant to install the dish in a way that will cause you problems later. That's a good thing.

Don't mount the dish to a wooden post due to warping and seasonal shifting issues as well.

It sounds like something like this would be you better solution:

DISH MOUNT SM100 Satellite Dish Soffit Mount


I don't see why this mount would not hold the new 5-LNB monster if it's necessary for your situation later, either.

These are readily available for around $50.

There are usually no problems with mounting a dish on a roof as long as the installer his a stud and mounts over the overhang. A roof mount should be a last resort option, though, especially on a two story house.

 

[jpn]

The hilly terrain in my neighborhood force me to either have a roof mount, or a very tall pole in my front yard. I opted for the roof mount.

It's been on my roof for 5+ years without a problem. After the first year I had the roof replaced (age), then re-mounted the disy myself. It's been 4.5 years since then without any leakage, and I have NOT had to re-caulk it.

It's not rocket science, it's silicone caulking. All that's needed is lag bolts (into the roof joists if possible), properly tightened, and a generous amount of silicone under the base and over the lag bolt heads.

If you are concerned about leakage, get your own silicone and caulking gun, and be on the roof with the installer to seal it yourself. It's easy enough unless you have health issues keeping you off your roof.

IMO, a roof mount is less unsightly than a pole mount and you don't need to deal with the cable from house-to-pole. In my area it would have to be inside a conduit buried 18 inches deep.

Next week I'll have the AT-9 installed on my roof. I'll watch the caulking and will have some on-hand just in case. And when they remove the Phase-III dish, I will leave the base bracket firmy bolted in-place on my roof to avoid disturbing the seal.

When you get right to it, it's a matter of installer-competence and your preference. Either way can be done effectively.

 

[bweiteka]

Personally, I would not use silicone caulk. Read the back of the tube, it usually says something about not adhering properly to tarry or greasy surfaces, for example, shingles! Use some sort of roof sealant, like blackjack or one of the newer polyurethane products. I like the clear roof patch from Menards, can't remember what it's called, but it seals great and doesn't leave black smears if it gets on ya! Anyways, properly sealed and lagged to a rafter, a roof mount should last the useful life of the dish.

 

[Mike500]

I install a lot of roof mounts on pitched asphalt/fiberglass shingle roofs.

I never never use silicone or roofing cement or coatings. And, I never use those lag screws that require predrilling.

I use #14(1/4"dia) fully threaded hardened hex head drive sheet metal screws. I drive two three inch long ones into the rafters and four 1-1/2" long ones into the corners of the feet. It is not difficult to find the rafters, since hitting the roof surface with the back of your fist will result in a solid sound. Even if you miss, six fully threaded screws will provide a very good hold that will require a hurricane or a tornado to blow off. In that case, the home owner's insurance will apply, since it will be considered an "Act of God."

The above provides for one solid mount. The screws driven through the shingles, without predrilling, provides a near perfect seal, since the heat generated in driving them melts the asphalt, which rehardens around the screw. This is also basically how roofing nails work. Just for insurance and for those customers who inspect the install, I cover the heads with a pliable modeling clay like duct seal. A one pound brick costs no more that $2 at Home Depot. This is also perfect for sealing cable wall entries.

This method allows for easy removal of the dish mount.

Backing out the screws leaves holes of less that 1/4" that are almost undetectable to the casual observer on the ground. The mounting foot is not "glued" to the shingles and comes off without tearing them. Whoever thought gluing the mounting foot to the shingles provides security is a fool. If the wind blows the dish off in a hurricane, a lot of shingles comes off. If held only with screws, a dish blown off results in less damage. The duct seal is great for sealing the holes left from the removed screws. Filled holes can be very discrete.

If you are removing a previously "glued" mounting foot, the way to do this with the least damage is with a thin stainless steel wire, such as aircraft safety wire or a piece of piano wire wrapped between two sticks like a garotte. Saw away the silicone with the wire, and the mounting foot comes off pretty clean. I're even used this method to take off mirror tiles stuck to dry wall, without damaging the surface.

If you are replacing shingles, the dry wall knife is your best friend. It allows you to lift the heat activated glue down tabs of asphalt shingles without breaking them off.

If done right, I would prefer an install on siding, if I were you. But, that depends on the type of siding. There is even a correct way to install on vinyl siding.

 

[raoul5788]

I install a lot of roof mounts on pitched asphalt/fiberglass shingle roofs.

I never never use silicone or roofing cement or coatings. And, I never use those lag screws that require predrilling.

I use #14(1/4"dia) fully threaded hardened hex head drive sheet metal screws. I drive two three inch long ones into the rafters and four 1-1/2" long ones into the corners of the feet. It is not difficult to find the rafters, since hitting the roof surface with the back of your fist will result in a solid sound. Even if you miss, six fully threaded screws will provide a very good hold that will require a hurricane or a tornado to blow off. In that case, the home owner's insurance will apply, since it will be considered an "Act of God."

The above provides for one solid mount. The screws driven through the shingles, without predrilling, provides a near perfect seal, since the heat generated in driving them melts the asphalt, which rehardens around the screw. This is also basically how roofing nails work. Just for insurance and for those customers who inspect the install, I cover the heads with a pliable modeling clay like duct seal. A one pound brick costs no more that $2 at Home Depot. This is also perfect for sealing cable wall entries.

This method allows for easy removal of the dish mount.

Backing out the screws leaves holes of less that 1/4" that are almost undetectable to the casual observer on the ground. The mounting foot is not "glued" to the shingles and comes off without tearing them. Whoever thought gluing the mounting foot to the shingles provides security is a fool. If the wind blows the dish off in a hurricane, a lot of shingles comes off. If held only with screws, a dish blown off results in less damage. The duct seal is great for sealing the holes left from the removed screws. Filled holes can be very discrete.

If you are removing a previously "glued" mounting foot, the way to do this with the least damage is with a thin stainless steel wire, such as aircraft safety wire or a piece of piano wire wrapped between two sticks like a garotte. Saw away the silicone with the wire, and the mounting foot comes off pretty clean. I're even used this method to take off mirror tiles stuck to dry wall, without damaging the surface.

If you are replacing shingles, the dry wall knife is your best friend. It allows you to lift the heat activated glue down tabs of asphalt shingles without breaking them off.

If done right, I would prefer an install on siding, if I were you. But, that depends on the type of siding. There is even a correct way to install on vinyl siding.

I generally agree with your assesment on installing on asphalt shingles. However,
nails are covered by the top layer of shingle, whereas a sheet metal screw will be
exposed. A small dab of sealant is necessary to insure against leaks. Of course, it
isn't a good idea to glue the entire foot to the roof, but you must seal the holes.

Chip

 

[Mike500]

I generally agree with your assesment on installing on asphalt shingles. However,
nails are covered by the top layer of shingle, whereas a sheet metal screw will be
exposed. A small dab of sealant is necessary to insure against leaks. Of course, it
isn't a good idea to glue the entire foot to the roof, but you must seal the holes.

Chip

Adding sealant over the heads doesn't hurt. I'd never use screws or nails through a roof at the bottom of a valley or on a flat roof. There are places on any shingle roof, where the heads are not sealed.

In proper construction, the attic is well ventilated. You'd get more damage from condensation than what would even come in through a 1/8" hole right through a pitched roof. It onlyy matters in cold climates with ice dams.

Thatched grass roofs are full of holes. Water surface tension makes water run off. Thatched roofs have lasted for 50 years or more in tropical climates, because they are well ventilated.

Using waterproof concrete or motaring alayed stone wall often causes them to fail. Mortarless stone walls have lasted as long as 5000 years.

 

[iwantdirectv]

Thank you all for taking the time to post on this thread. Lots of food for thought here.

Mike500, do my 3M fiberglass shingles have the same properties as asphalt? (Greasy by nature so not compatible with silicone sealant, able to melt and form their own seal when drilled through?)

Also, do you have guidelines for a sturdy vinyl siding mount? DirecTV's website makes it sound simple even for the 5 LNB. Just attach to a vertical stud, and you'll be fine. How do I find a stud through vinyl siding, and how can I be sure installation is secure? Any suggestions here are welcome.

Overall, I am becoming more comfortable with a roof mount as long as I ensure my installer takes necessary precautions to seal the mount above the overhang and to use properly sized/threaded screws. I do not have problems with ice dams on my roof here in Middle Tennessee. The worst weather here is an ice storm that might leave a coating of ice on everything for a max of 3 days. We don't get snow sitting on the roof for long periods of time or accumulating at the melt/thaw line just before the eave. The only other possibility I'd consider is a sturdy vinyl siding mount, but I need more details to feel comfortable with that.

 

[Mike500]

All fiberglass shingles contain asphaltum, the heavy refinery product left after refining gasoline, kerosene and other lighter components of petroleum.

Traditional asphalt shingles wete origanall made with felt impregnated with asphalt. About 30 years ago, the felt mats were replaced with mats made of fiberglass. They as still basically asphalt shingles.

 

[lou_do]

Some may like roof installs but I will NEVER have another dish installed on any roof I own. At my previous house they installed my dish on the roof. We were gone on vacation, for about 3 weeks in the middle of summer, when we get loads of rain, and it leaked big time. Water poured through around the installation bolts, causing roof, ceiling and furniture damage to the tune of $4000.00.

When I moved to my current house I reinstalled the system myself, mounting the dish on the back wall of the house, about 12 feet off the ground. It made it through 2 hurricanes and not problem one with it. Hope I can install the new AT9 in the same wall.

 

[bweiteka]

So Lou-do, how was that dish installed? Any idea why such a catastrophic failure?
Held down by 2 drywall screws or anything?

 

[tonyp56]

Anytime you put holes into your roof, you risk having leaks, if you ever remove the dish, you will have to replace the shingles that where below the dish mount (or use roof sealant, which would be ok for short term), OR you could very likely get leaks, especially since most installers install the dish close to the rake of the roof or as close to the eve as possible. And since water runs down hill, this means all of the water above the point of dish install runs across those holes, and can and will cause a leak.

I would say, ALMOST never is a roof install worth the headache, for one, when it snows, and you get snow fade, are you going to climb your two-story house and wipe off the snow? If you need a roof replacement (you should every 20-30--perhaps a little longer--years, depending on your roof material) you will have to mess with removing the dish, then putting the dish back up, either yourself or paying someone else to do it. If your roofer does it, you risk it getting tore up (they are roofers after all, not DirecTV installers).

My Dish Network dish is on a pole, I have three kids, and other kids that visit, and it is not a danger to have the dish below your first story. That is like saying, "can't have windows on the bottom floor because my kids could break them." Of course, that might be true, though not very practical. An 8-foot pole, buried about two feet--which leaves six feet above the ground--would be well suited for your situation. Since the installer wants to install to the fence post, there is no reason why this would not work. Your dish, LNB arm, etc. should be metal; however, some are plastic, but still not that breakable. Once the dish is installed, and the installer secures your coax cable, burying it between the pole and your house, there really is not that much any kids could break. They would have to hit it with a baseball bat to do anything. Even if a basketball, or whatever hits it, it will most likely simply bounce off it. The dish will be less breakable than your downstairs windows; that is certain.

Of course, the dish could bend or break, it could get out of alignment, etc., but it can get that on your roof too. Not to mention, it would be so much easier to realign the dish on the ground than it would be on your roof. My dish is installed as close to my house as possible, and it is in the corner of my fence and corner of my house. In other words, close to my house and close to where my fence meets the corner of my house. The reason for this, since I have to use a weed-eater here anyways, the pole doesn’t get in the way of mowing my lawn.

Anyways, I hope whatever you decide to do, you get to have what you want and your happy with it. IMO, if at all possible, do not get your dish installed on the roof, but it all comes down to what you want. Hope this helps you out. There isn't any dangerous radiation coming from a satellite TV dish, so there isn't any danger of your kids getting radiation or something from the dish, it receives only. Satellite internet is a different story, but that isn't what you are talking about.

 

[lou_do]

So Lou-do, how was that dish installed? Any idea why such a catastrophic failure?
Held down by 2 drywall screws or anything?

They put it in with lag bolts, but it looked like they didn't seal anything. It had been leaking for a while but it was falling onto a piece of plywood and we didn't notice it right away. Living in Florida we get those heavy summer afternoon rain showers and it was enough to finally cause it to come through the ceiling and soak the dry wall. The bad thing was it happened while we were away on vacation and by the time we got home we had a mess. I tried to call the company that installed the dish, and they were no longer in business, I wonder why.

After the roof repair I moved it to a concrete block and stucco wall, also the same as I have it now, at this house. Plus, it is a lot stronger and solid installation. I drilled holes in the concrete and installed anchors and lag bolted the dish into the anchors.

 

[Mainstreet]

I've seen quite a few roofs that have had water damage because the satellite installer thought that the heat caused by screwing lags through the shingles would cause a seal sufficient enough to prevent leaks.

At a minimum "pitch patch", or tar strips should be used to make a sufficient seal.

The problem is, most installers never see what happens to the roof after they have installed the dish. They assume that if they never hear back from that customer, there was no problem with the install. Also, when removing a dish, an installer rarely sees what is under the shingles to be able to tell if water damage has been caused to the sheeting. The shingles look fine, and there doesn't seem to be major damage to the soffit, so "it's all good".

Don't be afraid of a roof mount, but I'd recommend more protection against leaks than hoping that the tar from the shingles heats up enough to cover the threads of a 1/4" lag screw.

And as far as siding goes, use logic. If this applies to the installation, this also applies to fastening something onto the siding:

From: http://www.vinylsiding.org/install/basic.htm

Do not drive the head of the nail tightly against the siding nail hem. Allow 1/32" (about the thickness of a dime) clearance between the fastener head and the siding panel. Drive nails straight and level to prevent distortion and buckling of the panel.

Leave a minimum of 1/4" clearance at all openings and stops to allow for normal expansion and contraction. When installing in temperatures below 40°F, increase minimum clearance to 3/8".

Do not caulk the panels where they meet the receiver of inside corners, outside corners, or J-trim. Do not caulk the overlap joints.

Do not face-nail or staple through siding. Vinyl siding expands and contracts with outside temperature changes. Face-nailing can result in ripples in the siding.